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blankseplocked CCP: It is time crews are finally introduced
 
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Major Deviant
Posted - 2009.06.20 02:21:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Major Deviant on 20/06/2009 02:33:02
Edited by: Major Deviant on 20/06/2009 02:25:39
Edited by: Major Deviant on 20/06/2009 02:23:06
bloody forums...

Well what I wanted to say is that crews must come into the picture as a monthly maintanance fee payable every downtime. The cost could be something that you deem reasonable but for example it could be like the cost of a planery vehicle for every crew member per month. This would mean that to operate a battleship, it would cost you several millions per month (around the revenue from a L4 or two).

For capitals we are talking hundreds of millions and this will solve to super capital spamming and also add a more strategic aspect to ships.

For an individual pilot with several ships in the hangar, the fee/wages would only apply to the largest individual ship he/she owns. It would be assumed that if I own a battleship and decide to fly a cruiser, portion of the same personel under my employment will be used/trasnfered to the smaller ship.

For capitals an option could be there so that the wages are paid out of the corp wallet.

Intense Thinker
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.06.20 02:35:00 - [2]
 

Ships operated by capsuleers need no crews!

Gonada
The Scope
Posted - 2009.06.20 02:43:00 - [3]
 

you are wrong.

if you can make 100 mill an hour ratting, " several mill" is nothing.

Sniper Wolf18
Gallente
A Pretty Pony Princess
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2009.06.20 02:44:00 - [4]
 

Crews are inculded in the price of the ship, however i do think fighters deserve unique pilots, though the amount of fighter pilots named starbuck will raeg me the **** out....

Araviel
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.06.20 02:45:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Intense Thinker
Ships operated by capsuleers need no crews!


capsuleers on the other hand needs more isk sinks.

why not, maybe the op is on to something.

Major Deviant
Posted - 2009.06.20 02:45:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Intense Thinker
Ships operated by capsuleers need no crews!


Looking at you I think we may be related. But then again there is a history of sheep loving in my family and you look like you would prefer something more cerebral than that.

And yes, I too, troll occasionally.

DISCLAIMER: No animals were hurt or injured in any way due to this post.

Intense Thinker
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.06.20 02:45:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Sniper Wolf18
Crews are inculded in the price of the ship, however i do think fighters deserve unique pilots, though the amount of fighter pilots named starbuck will raeg me the **** out....


That's just a dummy to make it look like there's a pilot in there Razz

Major Deviant
Posted - 2009.06.20 02:50:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Gonada
you are wrong.

if you can make 100 mill an hour ratting, " several mill" is nothing.



Waht would be the crew of a titan? 100,000? multiply that by an average price of a palnetary vehicle I used s an example and you get around half a billion. That may not sound much but if my alliance corp has 10 of those I am looking at 5 bil monthly expenses and that is just from the titans.

Again I am trying to introduce an idea, as to the cost it is totally arbitrary for my part.

SpaceSquirrels
Caldari
Posted - 2009.06.20 02:53:00 - [9]
 

Always wondered..... does eve lore state as a capsuleer there are in fact crews? Or is the ship just run by me in my pod?
Though if the ships are just run by little ol me in a pod.... why are there so many windows?

Malthros Zenobia
Posted - 2009.06.20 03:02:00 - [10]
 

Crews are stated in news articles, chronicles, the eve novel, and forum posts by devs.

Also the old blueprint artwork list crews on them. There is irrefutable evidence that capsuleer piloted ships* have crews beyond the pod pilot.

*excludes some/all frigates and I imagine shuttles/rookie ships which are even more basic than a frig.

Etien Aldragoran
Legitimate Corporation
Posted - 2009.06.20 03:12:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: SpaceSquirrels
Always wondered..... does eve lore state as a capsuleer there are in fact crews? Or is the ship just run by me in my pod?
Though if the ships are just run by little ol me in a pod.... why are there so many windows?

You control everything related to the ship through your pod. Your ship has a crew, but they have no real function other than routine maintenence, moving ammo from the cargohold to the guns, and generally handling cargo.

There are many windows on ships because the hulls were not always designed for pod pilots. Many ships were converted to accommodate a pod. Not only that, but theoretically, the ship is not always piloted by a pod. Of course with Eve being a video game and all they're essentially not there.

Zodern
Posted - 2009.06.20 03:13:00 - [12]
 

I always just assumed the ships were crewed by slaves. I mean, we know there are crews, and they're obviously included in the price of the ship... Maybe they're cloned as part of the construction process (I'd assume cloning crew, lacking the sort of skills capsulers have, would be cheaper and easier), though that wouldn't make them non-slaves.

Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
Posted - 2009.06.20 03:46:00 - [13]
 

I don't even care that we can fly the ships around without paying any sort of costs what-so-ever anymore (although its ridiculous), but I would like just some arbitrary crew stat on the fitting window. I'd at least like to know I'm in charge of an actual pretend ship.

Krystal Vernet
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.06.20 04:19:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: SpaceSquirrels
Always wondered..... does eve lore state as a capsuleer there are in fact crews? Or is the ship just run by me in my pod?
Though if the ships are just run by little ol me in a pod.... why are there so many windows?

The pod pilot is the equivalent of the command crew + pilot. The crew on ships bigger than a frigate performs all the other essential services a ship in flight needs. Frigate-sized vessels are crew optional, due to their smaller size.

CCP Applebabe

Posted - 2009.06.20 04:29:00 - [15]
 

Moved to " Features & Ideas Discussion " .

Micia
Minmatar
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2009.06.20 04:36:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: SpaceSquirrels
Always wondered..... does eve lore state as a capsuleer there are in fact crews?


In Chronicles, look up these two stories:

Hands of a Killer
All These Lives Are Fit To Ruin

There's other information, but those two are pretty blunt about it. ugh

AtheistOfDoom
Amarr
Invicta.
Posted - 2009.06.20 04:37:00 - [17]
 

I'd rather not pay a monthly fee for my ship tyvm. I doubt you would either.

Major Deviant
Posted - 2009.06.20 05:16:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: AtheistOfDoom
I'd rather not pay a monthly fee for my ship tyvm. I doubt you would either.


I think many would agree with you but you are missing the bigger picture here. It will be a balancing factor but also a feature with huge potiential. Let me elaborate with few possible crew features:

1) Crews gain experience over time/flight time and provide bonus to ships.

Let's say there are four level of experience: Green(no bonus), Experienced (small bonus), Veteran (middleground bonus), Elite (top bonus)

Your crew can only reach Elite status through PVP only (require certain number of kills?) in combat against other capsuleers.

The bonuses should not be overpowering and I would personally prefer non directly offensive bonuses only like extra shield/armor repair amount or faster cap recharge etc. Or faster reloading times for exampleVery Happy

2) Logistics (you are going to hate this one)

Lets say I built a Carrier in a WH. Where the hell do the crew comes from? Hitch the interbus express to your wormhole to serve under you? Sure there is personel in the POS you brought with you but for how many ships?

As such, getting crew the further away you get from hi sec empire should become more and more difficult. Nullsec is scarcelly populated so convincing crews to come there to work should be more difficult than Empire. This could either be similuted by higher wages or----->

3)Population, colonization, etc

What if non-capsuleer population comes into the picture. Suddenly sov. and attracting settlers/colonists to your piece of 0.0 makes policing and defending the borders much more important. Population becomes a resource 0.0 Alliances fight over. New proffessions like people carriers emerge as well as slavers.Shocked

FW occupancy could also finally start to matter in the same manner.


Anyway I am getting carried away here but there is so much you can do with crews and do not get me started with crew officers which could faction like rigs etc etc...

Jin Labarre
Posted - 2009.06.20 11:20:00 - [19]
 

It is canonically established that ships have crew and they should be part of the game.

I think it would be enough, if crew would cost monetary upkeep. If the upkeep cannot be paid, the ship's performance decreases. So you can still undock and fly your ship if you are broke. You can even rat and fly missions, but with well reduced performance.

Crew does not even have to be linked to individual ships. We could as well have a crew pool, added like a character stat, only that it needs to be bought/hired and maintained. You could need crew of the race appropriate to the ship you fly, though. So we could have a crew pool for each of the four major factions and a fifth mercenary pool that costs most but works for all. Different faction's crews could have different upkeet cost and Amarr crews could alternatively maintained with Vitoc, instead of money. That would finally create a player market for vitoc. If it was worked into the station interface, lots and lots of stuff could be used up for crew support, so that it is possible to either pay them with money, or with goods. This would increase player demand for various trade goods, which is good.

Last but not least, it is a monetary balance mechanism for the really large vessels, because maintaining the crew of a Titan would likely cost a small fortune. Okay, maybe large alliances wouldn't really care a lot. It would still sink ISK, increase immersion and balance PvP vs. PvE, because no matter if they lose ships or not, even carebears would have to maintain their crews.

Moganic
Posted - 2009.06.20 11:43:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Moganic on 20/06/2009 11:44:08
Edited by: Moganic on 20/06/2009 11:43:34
Originally by: Major Deviant
2) Logistics (you are going to hate this one)

Lets say I built a Carrier in a WH. Where the hell do the crew comes from? Hitch the interbus express to your wormhole to serve under you? Sure there is personel in the POS you brought with you but for how many ships?

As such, getting crew the further away you get from hi sec empire should become more and more difficult. Nullsec is scarcelly populated so convincing crews to come there to work should be more difficult than Empire. This could either be similuted by higher wages or----->



How bout introduce a new mechanics, such as u can "buy" people from npc station, and haul them around like trade goods. Plus adding a new POS modules such as "training centers" where u put skill books and people into it and after a "training time" there is some sort of specialized personal which u can "equip" on ur ship for some effect such as less reloading time , better shield n etc. Maybe they come in different rank or "experience" which will be determine by the total numbers of people u put in 1 batch or the things u added into the "training centers" like those drugs in the trade good section , or maybe some exotic dancer , janitors those sorts of things. Those player corpses can be put into uses too, maybe we can get some higher chances of getting a better "crew" by cloning the higher SP player corpse.

Finally, maybe with higher rank in the militia u can recruit some specialize personal which cannot be train by player, maybe that will increase some usefulness of the faction warfare.

ezraniel
Caldari
0ccam's Razor
The Volition Cult
Posted - 2009.06.20 12:00:00 - [21]
 

without going in detail why I find this a bad idea in general, all you lore buffs need to check your lore.

CCP once stated that the starting sum of 10k isk is more then some people could ever amass in a lifetime.

As such, upkeep for the "peasants" would be like... 10k isk a pop and they'd still all be happy and uber rich.

I like "crew" as another factor in general, but to make it yet another isk sink is NOT a good idea and should be written off completely

silken mouth
Gallente
Core Genes Applied Technologies
Posted - 2009.06.20 16:55:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: silken mouth on 20/06/2009 16:56:14
introducing crews to the game would be imo ok, as long as you keep it optional....

players could "build" crews via special blueprints and livestock, like homeless, unemployed, refugees, freed slaves and even slaves (amarr empire and nullsec only).

these crews have a certain livespan after which they return to their previous state.
crews come in different sizes (frigate, cruiser, Battleship, capital, supercapital)

different kind of crews give different bonuses, mechanics automatically repair hull, armor, damaged mods and boost shield recharge, while gunners boost damage, tracking and range etc....

in order to put crews on a ship you have to enable its live support, which cannot be deactivated as long as crews are present (they really dislike they idea of suffocating to death, just because the egg-dweller chooses so, and take appropriate precautions)

the downside of an activated live support however is that your ship can be boarded, by other ships that carry a boarding pod launcher, which carries marines to your ship who kill your crew, once your crew is killed you are ejected from your ship. this shouldnt be too easy, maybe requiring shields and armor down, but this whole suggestion is basically a rough sketch.

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2009.06.20 18:53:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Drake Draconis on 20/06/2009 18:55:13
If your going to implement this... you need to make the following changes to the idea...

1: Drop the "forced" monhtly fee crap. Its insane... no seriously... it would break the game in one fell swoop. If your going to do this it needs to be optional and an incentive.

2: Make it an optional upgrade... the ship has an life support system already as it is... the Pod requires power does it not? it has to circulate the fluids and such... granted its a self contained system but it still requires some sort of resource from the ship itself.

3: If you take the upgrade... you can "hire" crews for a few.... each crew can have a set of skills that would give a bonus to your ship... Kinda like a militrary mindset as opposed to a mechanic whose good at jury rigging...with a slight risk perhaps?

4: Ships can have a very limited number of "slots" for crews... Frigates to Destroyers would be like 1 crew slot.... Cruisers 2 Battlecruisers maybe 3? Battleships 4? Capital ships 5 or 6?

Each one can control a different aspect... stacking penalties apply if you want.

Each crew represents his own self or a staff to follow.

5: Crews need to be paid.... so... make them different rates depending on the number of staff needed.

Have fun tweaking the idea.

Mephesto Nizal
Best Path Inc.
Ethereal Dawn
Posted - 2009.06.20 19:18:00 - [24]
 

Only thing a pod pilot does is replacing the bridge crew, rest of the ship is still with a crew.

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2009.06.20 22:18:00 - [25]
 


Major Deviant
Posted - 2009.06.20 22:50:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: ezraniel
CCP once stated that the starting sum of 10k isk is more then some people could ever amass in a lifetime.



Link or dev quote pls?

This is exactly why I mentioned the planetary vehicles as an example. Surely a non capsuller would be able to afford on with an average salary? Furthermore working in a spaceship would be one of the more profitabel jobs in new eden and even more so if you are working for a capsuleer and not for a standard vessel. Consider the extra pay, hazard pay.

Have you checked the prices of the other consumer and industrial goods? Those give a good indication of isk value.

HookahJOE
Posted - 2009.06.23 00:46:00 - [27]
 

I think crews would be a great idea. Lets say you are in a battle and your crew starts to die from hull breaches etc... your ship's response time/manuverability, fire delay or shield/armor repair times may go up. I guess I am evil, but I would find it entertaining to hear my target's crew screaming in pain as my lasers cook them to a crisp.

No worries though. Go back to a space station and hire more crew.. for a price.

Maybe add voice updated from your 1st officer if parts of the ship have been damaged (Sir! Engines are offline!) then maybe direct your crew to concentrate repairs on that part of your ship.

I think this would add a new level to the player to space ship aspect of the game. Right now it feels like I am detached from my ship.. it doesn't seem like a ship full of human beings but more like one giant robot. Where's the humanity in it man?!

Anyway, I think this would be a great idea. Sorry for the rambling. Smile

Jade Mitch
Gallente
Posted - 2009.06.23 04:42:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Jade Mitch on 23/06/2009 04:44:37

Originally by: Major Deviant

... a monthly maintanance fee payable every downtime.


Another pointless ISK sink? No thanks! And btw, if this maintenance fee is monthly then it should only be due once a month. If it's due every day then it's a daily fee.

Originally by: Major Deviant

...this will solve to super capital spamming and also add a more strategic aspect to ships.


Eve is an RPG, not an RTS. And what's "super capital spamming"? Never heard of it.

If you think the idea will make the game more fun, fine. Apply it to capital ships only, not everyone.

mellyrae
Posted - 2009.06.23 05:59:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: mellyrae on 23/06/2009 06:00:17
err how about no. could think of nothing worse than to have to rat my ass off every month to be able to pay for my 3 capital accounts to fly their ships, on top of replacing my pvp ship losses.

capital ships require fuel/stront and adding another cost, especially the one you proprose is crazy. I think the game is complex enough and might actually turn people away from the game.

its already hard enough for a noobie as it is, do u really think making it that little bit harder will draw new players here? sometime KISS is the best option.

Uronksur Suth
Posted - 2009.06.23 06:13:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: mellyrae
Edited by: mellyrae on 23/06/2009 06:00:17
err how about no. could think of nothing worse than to have to rat my ass off every month to be able to pay for my 3 capital accounts to fly their ships, on top of replacing my pvp ship losses.

capital ships require fuel/stront and adding another cost, especially the one you proprose is crazy. I think the game is complex enough and might actually turn people away from the game.

its already hard enough for a noobie as it is, do u really think making it that little bit harder will draw new players here? sometime KISS is the best option.


Dear lord yes. I agree.

Crews really need to be implemented. I really want to feel like I'm finally in charge of a ship. When WiS is finally implemented, I want to be able to walk around my ship and watch my crew stacking huge quantities of ore, polishing the drones, fueling my missiles.

But the idea of using them as an ISK sink is just bad. How about we just assume that when you sell something, get a bounty or a mission reward, the crews pay comes off the top but since crew are scum compared to the Capsule Gods, its too inconsequential to show in the Wallet. Its simple. And if you want to hire a premium crew member, like a famous astrogeologist for your mining barge that give bonuses to ore extracted per cycle or something but require a very small monthly salary, you can. Neutral


Sheez, the point I think we should be discussing isn't the ins and outs of Crew salary, but getting CCP to get crews in PERIOD. Arguing over how the crews are paid and fed can come afterwards. Rolling Eyes


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