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Kesper North
Caldari
Gentlemen of Means
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2009.06.02 22:23:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Kesper North on 02/06/2009 22:25:09
Industrialists and combat pilots alike would rejoice in the addition of shopping lists to the EVE UI. Whether one is fitting a ship or buying manufacturing materials, players spend long periods of mind-numbing tedium laboriously searching through the market and buying modules. This is something they do *repeatedly* - often, for industrialists, the very same items every single day. And usually they're doing so at a market hub and purchasing whatever is at lowest cost in the station they're in.

Imagine if you could:
Define a list of items (such as 'Pulse Zealot Mods' or 'ME -3 Ishtar Components' or, heavens forfend, '1 month Oimmo Research POS fuel')
Assign quantities
Assign maximum range (station, one jump, 5 jumps, region)
Assign maximum price (to avoid getting autoscammed)

And save that shopping list so that every time you needed to fit out a new Zealot, or build from a newly invented Ishtar BPC, you could just select the relevant shopping list and select "Buy".

This would save players a great deal of time. It would save me personally at least an hour of playtime a day that could be better spent having fun and blowing up internet spaceships. And I would argue that it would have significant server load benefits as well - people would be able to get what they need from market hubs and GTFO that much faster.

It's a nontrivial amount of UI design work but I think the benefit to players of all professions would be huge.

iP0D
Posted - 2009.06.02 22:30:00 - [2]
 

My wife would hate this, the idea of making shopping simpler and shorter goes against everything she believes in.

For that reason alone I support this :-)

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2009.06.02 22:37:00 - [3]
 

This.... would be very nice to have.

It's such a pain to remember to fetch things and go places.

IF anything its time for the market to be tweaked a wee bit.

supported.

Santiago Fahahrri
Gallente
Galactic Geographic
Posted - 2009.06.02 23:25:00 - [4]
 

Supported.

It would also be nice to have a Corp Shopping List option. Groups that operate in deep 0.0 or w-space often send one person to grab a bunch of supplies, instead of the tedious "does anyone need anything from empire before I head back out?" conversation, we could just check the list.

SupaKudoRio
Posted - 2009.06.02 23:42:00 - [5]
 

Supported.

I might actually find production worth my time then... Laughing

Perhaps it would work best if it's intergrated with the quick list?

Chesh Morgan
Gallente
Reliables Inc
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2009.06.03 00:54:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
Supported.

It would also be nice to have a Corp Shopping List option. Groups that operate in deep 0.0 or w-space often send one person to grab a bunch of supplies, instead of the tedious "does anyone need anything from empire before I head back out?" conversation, we could just check the list.


Another option would be to make them sendable, like fittings are now. That way ten people give a jump freighter pilot their lists, he runs to Jita, executes them, comes back with everyone's stuff in half an hour.

Rion Deteisan
Posted - 2009.06.03 02:14:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Rion Deteisan on 03/06/2009 02:14:06
This already exists..

"Market Quickbar"

you can create a new folder if you have more than one item in the quickbar

Name your folder accordingly

Look up items in the market and add them to the quickbar (right click the item name >> add to quickbar). Move them to the you folder created such as "Ishtar Manuf", "Sniping Mega", or " "POS Fuel"

However i'm unsure how many items you can add to it. Currently i have over 20 items.

Originally by: Kesper North


Imagine if you could:
Define a list of items (such as 'Pulse Zealot Mods' or 'ME -3 Ishtar Components' or, heavens forfend, '1 month Oimmo Research POS fuel')
Assign quantities
Assign maximum range (station, one jump, 5 jumps, region)
Assign maximum price (to avoid getting autoscammed)




But, I DO see how a your propasal could be quicker, especially if you can buy all the items at once as long as the total is under your set budget.

FoxtrotTangoWhiskey
Posted - 2009.06.03 02:33:00 - [8]
 

The number of clicks saved with this would be huge. Two thumbs up, way up.

Aethrwolf
Caldari
Podrratu
Posted - 2009.06.03 03:19:00 - [9]
 

would be nice..

W3370Pi4
Lamb Federation Navy
Posted - 2009.06.03 03:46:00 - [10]
 

i like the principle

weeknieunknowing
Posted - 2009.06.03 05:29:00 - [11]
 

Kesper, I must say, very nice idea:D

It's not that I'm buying stuff that often (yet), not that i'm getting blown up that much.

Anyway, very nice idea;)

Mos7Wan7ed
Gallente
Dirt-Nap Ship Yards
Posted - 2009.06.03 05:55:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Mos7Wan7ed on 03/06/2009 06:36:46

Industrialists and combat pilots alike would rejoice in the addition of shopping lists to the EVE UI. Whether one is fitting a ship or buying manufacturing materials, players spend long periods of mind-numbing tedium laboriously searching through the market and buying modules. This is something they do *repeatedly* - often, for industrialists, the very same items every single day. And usually they're doing so at a market hub and purchasing whatever is at lowest cost in the station they're in.

Imagine if you could:
Define a list of items (such as 'Pulse Zealot Mods' or 'ME -3 Ishtar Components' or, heavens forfend, '1 month Oimmo Research POS fuel')
Assign quantities
Assign maximum range (station, one jump, 5 jumps, region)
Assign maximum price (to avoid getting autoscammed)

And save that shopping list so that every time you needed to fit out a new Zealot, or build from a newly invented Ishtar BPC, you could just select the relevant shopping list and select "Buy".

This would save players a great deal of time. It would save me personally at least an hour of playtime a day that could be better spent having fun and blowing up internet spaceships. And I would argue that it would have significant server load benefits as well - people would be able to get what they need from market hubs and GTFO that much faster.

It's a nontrivial amount of UI design work but I think the benefit to players of all professions would be huge.



do you realize you just explained exactly what a market buy order is suppose to do but on a grand scale? i spent 1.2m sp in an alt to do just that but you want ccp to come in and give you a tool that nullifies 1.2M sp of my train time? i think not... create manual buy orders for all the items you expect to need in advance.

unless your talking about a list that when activated just buys everything off the market at a preset price then ...
the longer lists will be harder to fill.
the longer the list the better chance you will over pay because you narrowed the distance too much and it didnt include (JITA) Laughing.
the longer the list the better chance at the location you are at currently when you click buy would cause it to buy something in a system your unwilling to go into (RANCER) Laughing.
the longer the list is the more time it will take to accumulate the mods that maybe you could spend 0.1 isk more and get in local rather then going your max predefined 5 jumps to save that 0.1 isk ugh.
the longer the list the more time it will take to build the lists themselves your going to have dozens of these per ship per tower, per whatever all with there little predefined settings.
the longer the list the more rare that the needs between the purchasing of the list will remain unchanged (do i really want to build another torp raven with faction launchersQuestion).
the longer the list the better chance you'll buy something on it you already had on hand but forgot (oh crap, i just bought 6 best named arabalest launchers at 3M a pop and i have 6 spare here woops Rolling Eyes).
the longer the list the better chance you'll forget you had added something you wanted the first time but you have already bought it again and its too late now (doh, i already didn't want to buy that rig this time Confused )...
the longer the list the more isk you'll be out when at 2 am you accidental buy everything on the wrong list Laughing!

all sorts of reasons the majority of the time it would be inefficient for those hand full of times when it works like it is suppose to.

Kesper North
Caldari
Gentlemen of Means
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2009.06.03 06:49:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Mos7Wan7ed



do you realize you just explained exactly what a market buy order is suppose to do but on a grand scale? i spent 1.2m sp in an alt to do just that but you want ccp to come in and give you a tool that nullifies 1.2M sp of my train time? i think not... create manual buy orders for all the items you expect to need in advance.


I think you completely missed the point here. This will in no way replace buy orders. Buy orders will still be needed and viable for those who choose to work that way and have the isk and the time to invest in buying stuff ahead of time (and constantly nursmading the buy orders so you don't get outbid, and... ugh, this is why I don't use them).

This is just a tool to automate what people are already doing laboriously by hand - buying the closest, cheapest module available on the market for its sell price.

Quote:
unless your talking about a list that when activated just buys everything off the market at a preset price then ...


Here you've almost got it, except I'm not talking about using a preset price, I'm talking about automatically buying whatever the *cheapest instance* of an item is *at that moment* within x number of jumps, with the price not to exceed value y (so you don't automatically pay 20 million isk for a medium armor repper II, or something). That's exactly what I would be doing by hand every time I lose a PVP ship and want to replace its fittings.

Lists will be small, if you use them sensibly. Define a list for Ishtar parts, that's 10 or 12 items long. A list of Zealot fittings, say twelve items.

Going line by line:

* the longer lists will be harder to fill.

How's that different from today?

* the longer the list the better chance you will over pay because you narrowed the distance too much and it didnt include JITA LOL.

True. But if I'm in Forge anyway I'd probably only activate this feature in Jita anyway... :)

* the longer the list the better chance at the location you are at currently when you click buy would cause it to buy something in a system your unwilling to go into RANCER LOL.

True. More UI and client-side processing work: excluding systems by sec level.

* the longer the list is the more time it will take to accumulate the mods that maybe you could spend 0.1 isk more and get in local rather then going your max predefined 5 jumps to save that 0.1 isk.

True. I'd probably use this the most in a trade hub, though.

* the longer the list the more time it will take to build the lists themselves your going to have dozens of these per ship per tower, per whatever all with there little predefined settings.

Dozens? I don't know about that. I generally only have two or three regular fittings for my PVP ships, and obviously ship builds are pretty much constant. So are tower fuels, on the whole - I'd add the regular fuels to the list for the racial tower and buy the heavy water and liquid ozone separately since they are mod-dependant.

* the longer the list the more rare that the needs between the purchasing of the list will remain unchanged.

True. But that's a problem for the user to manage - I'd keep my lists pretty short.

* the longer the list the better chance you'll buy something on it you already had on hand but forgot.

Dude, I do this now. I don't really think the shopping list feature would make this tendency any worse.

* the longer the list the better chance you'll forget you had added something you wanted the first time but you have already bought it again and its too late now...

True, but I question how often this would happen. In order to make a list it would have to be a set of items that you've bought enough times, again and again, to know that it remains pretty constant.

* the longer the list the more isk you'll be out when in 2 am you accidental buy everything on the wrong list LOL!

Yep. But if I had this feature... I wouldn't still be shopping at 2 AM. :)

Mos7Wan7ed
Gallente
Dirt-Nap Ship Yards
Posted - 2009.06.03 07:23:00 - [14]
 

if your so fixed on the type of items you require and it is rare they they change for you then thats great. take advantage of some of those lower buy orders and pre-order the items so when it comes time you have them on hand and you can open up the ship fitting window and browse to a saved setup and in a press of the button it builds the ship for ya.

for the majority of us like me i rarly buy the same parts or quantities when i rebuild a ship. when i set a ship up its rarely the same way more then 2-3 times because the situation changes or i try a new fit, or i loot a wreck and get a required part for my next build. so in all of those situations it's not the best idea to smash buy on a list because your just going to end up disappointed.

the thing i am trying to get at is it is alot of design work for ccp to create a tool that at the best of times is a mild convenience. the automated buying list is never going to be as efficient as a human. the majority of the time is going to get the end user buying something where he didn't want to go, too much, too far, over buying items he already had, or buying an old list he should have altered before hitting the buy button. these things already happen now with item by item purchasing. lists will just make it worse really, the end user will notice and just after a few bad uses stop using it completely.

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2009.06.03 16:33:00 - [15]
 

I can see some possible issues with how this would work, but nonetheless, I like this idea a lot. Supported.

Dragon Greg
Posted - 2009.06.03 17:48:00 - [16]
 

Pure gold this.

cypriss
Caldari
Epiphyte Mining and Exploration
Posted - 2009.06.03 18:24:00 - [17]
 

Good idea

Verys
I Heart Chaos

Posted - 2009.06.03 19:01:00 - [18]
 

As long as it gives you a total price before confirming this improved way of buying (see it as a few sell orders rolled in once) I will support this because browsing the market, even quickbar can be quite a hassle.

Kole
Posted - 2009.06.03 19:27:00 - [19]
 

I like it! Sign me up

Red Raider
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.06.03 20:14:00 - [20]
 

Just buy up the stuff in large batches. It saves more time by far then flying all over the place collecting modules one at a time when you need them and lets you effectively fight a war without having to hope you don't get camped in a station with an Ibis.

You can't claim this would help people with enough money to not care too much about paying slightly higher prices while at the same time claiming you can't afford to stockpile modules in advance?

Also what happens when price fluctuations drive the price range out of your shopping lists settings? If you limit it using a percentage range of average price traders will manipulate the average price to sell people like you overpriced goods. If you limit it to a fixed price range and the prices go beyond that range then you have a non functioning list and end up having to access the market anyways.

Market Quickbar Confused

Not supported. Just seems like a pointless addition when better tools are already available and under used.

Kesper North
Caldari
Gentlemen of Means
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2009.06.03 20:36:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Kesper North on 03/06/2009 20:38:07
Originally by: Red Raider
Just buy up the stuff in large batches. It saves more time by far then flying all over the place collecting modules one at a time when you need them and lets you effectively fight a war without having to hope you don't get camped in a station with an Ibis.

You can't claim this would help people with enough money to not care too much about paying slightly higher prices while at the same time claiming you can't afford to stockpile modules in advance?


Modules, yes. Modules *and ships* - no, and why would I buy modules without ships to put them on? I buy a group of ships and their associated modules ahead of time, fit them and move them.

And then I have to go through all that horrible RSI-inducing clicking every time I need to replace what I lost so that I still have backups. The same issue still applies.

Or take the case of people doing invention - you don't know, from day to day, exactly how many invention successes you're going to get. That makes it hard to predict how much you will need of something. You're not super wealthy, you don't have massive amounts of capital to invest in buy orders ahead of time, and for that matter you don't have the time to modify your buy orders every two seconds when someone outbids you by 0.01 isk. Being able to avoid all the clicking that is otherwise entailed is huge.

Quote:
Also what happens when price fluctuations drive the price range out of your shopping lists settings?


I *wish* the market was that volatile, I'd be making a lot more money than I do. Sadly, except around patch time, things seem to be (relatively) stable). So far, anyway, though I haven't been doing industrial stuff actively for all that long.

(Edited due to epic fail.)

Red Raider
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.06.03 21:16:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Kesper North

Modules, yes. Modules *and ships* - no, and why would I buy modules without ships to put them on? I buy a group of ships and their associated modules ahead of time, fit them and move them.


Stop splitting hairs. Buy what you need in larger quantities if you need them I don't care if it's fuzzy freaking bunny slippers for your exotic dancer stockpile.

Originally by: Kesper North

And then I have to go through all that horrible RSI-inducing clicking every time I need to replace what I lost so that I still have backups. The same issue still applies.


Wait so you replace everything you lost on a one on one basis? Why? That defeats the purpose of stockpiling the stuff in the first place. If you do this is called Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.


Originally by: Kesper North

Or take the case of people doing invention - you don't know, from day to day, exactly how many invention successes you're going to get. That makes it hard to predict how much you will need of something. You're not super wealthy, you don't have massive amounts of capital to invest in buy orders ahead of time, and for that matter you don't have the time to modify your buy orders every two seconds when someone outbids you by 0.01 isk. Being able to avoid all the clicking that is otherwise entailed is huge.


Market Quickbar...

If you don't know what you need how is a preset shopping list going to help?

Originally by: Kesper North

I *wish* the market was that volatile, I'd be making a lot more money than I do. Sadly, except around patch time, things seem to be (relatively) stable). So far, anyway, though I haven't been doing industrial stuff actively for all that long.




So you admit it wouldn't work some of the time. So what happens if a major change takes place in .0 and disrupts tons of tech 2 production like say Goons exploding BoB? Prices spiked for a bit and have remained higher than what they were in the past ever since. Now you have to go in and adjust your lists. Even better is what happens when prices drop but your still paying a premium because you haven't changed your max acceptable setting? Assuming you are not at a trade hub of course. If your at a trade hub you already wasted time getting there for a common easily accessible item found most everywhere or you are there for better deals on much more expensive items it's not going to be on your usual shopping list anyways seeing as though your apparently nearly broke all the time.

Just use the quickbar access common goods more quickly it's not difficult. The variables that can't be accounted for with a shopping list would make it more difficult to work with than what you think and probably not reduce server load at all because one way or another it still has to query and change those exact same databases. In fact this could easily be abused to overwhelm they system by simply creating a shopping list that query's everything in the whole region and spamming query's like crazy to bog down the system. People will do this kind of crap too and right now they can't do it without everyone in the entire games assistance and the chances of that are very unlikely. Who knows what kind of effect something like this might have on the performance of a solar system if any but if it did a losing side could just query spam the server and crash the system to save face or worse just use lasers in all battles even more than everyone is gearing towards them now because they are unaffected by lag.


On another note you can always shoot me your shopping list and I can buy the stuff for you and then charge you a premium for the service and we can get useful work out of the dev's at the same time.

Sounds like a good business opportunity seeing how many people here would rather have an "easy" button. Sandbox gaming FTMFW!

Concierge service!


 

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