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blankseplocked [proposal] replace area-of-effect DD with focused DD
 
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O Thief
The Monocled Elite
Posted - 2009.05.27 14:03:00 - [1]
 

Firstly, Vuk's thread about supercaps is excellent and I fully support nearly all his ideas. There is however a simple 'fix' in the meantime which could be applied pending a total supercap revamp (or indeed as part of it).

I think many of us can appreciate that area-of effect DD's have had their day, but Titan pilots rightly want something fun to do with their shiny toys (without breaking the game for everyone else)... so...

Replace area-of-effect DD with focused DD

1) remove area of effect DD completely
2) replace with 'focused DD' (think Death Star) with a 60 second ROF and 1m+ raw damage per shot, and 200km range
3) retain all the logistical qualities which make titans cool

The focused DD fire can use a certain percentage of the cap to prevent insta-jump outs after execution. The idea is that titans become a potent anti-capital platforms, without the game breaking area of effect DD intact.

and it keeps the ship cool and worthwhile (and fun)

This would have to be accompanied by a boost to MS/Titan HP (which is needed as per Vuk's post) to prevent MS being two-volleyed or something equally ridiculous


Miss KillSome
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2009.05.27 15:43:00 - [2]
 

titans are meant to be anti-blob weapon..

let them stay anti-blob..

Butter Dog
Gallente
The Monocled Elite
Posted - 2009.05.27 17:22:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Miss KillSome
titans are meant to be anti-blob weapon..

let them stay anti-blob..


titans come in blobs these days, and especially when used under cynojammers most reasonable people can see they are imbalanced to the point of being game-breaking

it wont be long before 20-30 titans are able to DD and kill a capital fleet, we're already seeing 15 titans together at once... in this situation, there is no place for the area-of-effect DD anymore

Tobruk
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.05.27 19:57:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Tobruk on 27/05/2009 19:58:52
you are a horrible troll and worse battlefeild commentator but this is a very good idea and one i proposed about about a year ago. Your concept here is much better than my original and thus i fully support this.

however before this can be effective CCP needs to resolve the issue of big # lag otherwise the massive fleet fights that result from this change will be utterly miserable lagfests and will ruin the game.

Kelban Kevar
Gallente
Evocations of Shadow
Eternal Evocations
Posted - 2009.05.27 21:01:00 - [5]
 

what a stupid ideal.would mean what the titain gets to shoot on ship and kill it then get blobed by the group his dd would have normal taken out.

cause if this new death ray you want was put it and useing enough cap to stop it from jumping out ...would mean would only get what 2 ship kills what every 30 to 40 mins for a titain like said stupid ideal.then again uks blob are getting small now a days

Butter Dog
Gallente
The Monocled Elite

Posted - 2009.05.27 21:21:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Butter Dog on 27/05/2009 21:21:02
Originally by: Kelban Kevar
what a stupid ideal.would mean what the titain gets to shoot on ship and kill it then get blobed by the group his dd would have normal taken out.

cause if this new death ray you want was put it and useing enough cap to stop it from jumping out ...would mean would only get what 2 ship kills what every 30 to 40 mins for a titain like said stupid ideal.then again uks blob are getting small now a days


to be fair, we've actually grown in size since forcing your alliance out of catch, but we're digressing here ;)

back on topic:

the cap usage would prevent the titan jumping out, but not warping out - so of course people could use them in 'drive-by' attacks on capital ships, for example (against seiged dreads it would be particularly effective)

this negates your point about 'getting killed by the blob his DD would have taken out' -- this isnt a ship to be used solo, it would have a support fleet covering him

what it provides, is a phenomenal (and scary) anti-capital platform which can one-shot most dreads/carriers... it is not without risk, and nor should it be

but it removes the game-breaking area-of-effect DD, and keeps titans fun, whilst adding an interesting new dynamic to capital ship combat


edit: oh, and i support my idea of course :)


Kelban Kevar
Gallente
Evocations of Shadow
Eternal Evocations
Posted - 2009.05.27 22:40:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Kelban Kevar on 27/05/2009 23:00:00
dd is not game breaking hell you can tank dd's now if you know how to set up for it.course you wont be able to do much of anything eles but you can live through a dd blast.as far as a 1 hit 1 kill. in stead if screwing up the titain more than it already is lets add that 1 hit feature to the dread.since that is suppose to be a huge flying cannon anyway up the dps the dread does and youd get this maybe even make it were a couple of dread using the power can pop a titain

or they could introduce a t2 version that is built for that purpose

Dirk Culliford
H A V O C
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2009.05.28 02:56:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Kelban Kevar
Edited by: Kelban Kevar on 27/05/2009 23:00:00
dd is not game breaking hell you can tank dd's now if you know how to set up for it.course you wont be able to do much of anything eles but you can live through a dd blast.as far as a 1 hit 1 kill.



ok, you can even tank 2 or 3 if you fly the right thing and fit it well, but have you found anything that can tank 8-10? No, I didn't think so.

Titans are no longer doing as they were supposed to do. They were supposed to be the jewel in an alliances fleet, the flagship and a statement of power. Now they're being used in large blobs which is game breaking for everybody else, something must be done, and this idea is as good as any I've seen


Sir Substance
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2009.05.28 04:23:00 - [9]
 

its a neat idea, but problem:

you can fire once per minute, at worst it takes 4 mins to kill a dread (4mil EHP).

i deploy 4 titans on grid so they can one-volley any dread.

how are you going to kill my titans now?

its a nice idea, but lets face it, it makes them neigh on invincible in groups.

Ralagina
Caldari
ReviveX Fleet
White Noise.
Posted - 2009.05.28 06:18:00 - [10]
 

Yes, yes a thousand times yes.

http://www.eve-search.com/thread/732554/page/1

FlameGlow
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2009.05.28 10:48:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Sir Substance
its a neat idea, but problem:

you can fire once per minute, at worst it takes 4 mins to kill a dread (4mil EHP).

i deploy 4 titans on grid so they can one-volley any dread.

how are you going to kill my titans now?

its a nice idea, but lets face it, it makes them neigh on invincible in groups.

Bring 50 battleships and couple of dictors? of course it's a shocking idea for capitals online Laughing

Yue Rubens
Fnord Works
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.05.28 11:26:00 - [12]
 

Support for Deathstar like guns!

Still, not one minute rof but 5 minute rof :) no one-hit dreads plz.

Yue

RedSplat
Posted - 2009.05.28 12:31:00 - [13]
 

Whines incoming from people that don't want their i win button nerfed

O Thief
The Monocled Elite
Posted - 2009.05.28 12:41:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Sir Substance
its a neat idea, but problem:

you can fire once per minute, at worst it takes 4 mins to kill a dread (4mil EHP).

i deploy 4 titans on grid so they can one-volley any dread.

how are you going to kill my titans now?

its a nice idea, but lets face it, it makes them neigh on invincible in groups.


you'd deploy more dreads - deploying 10 to kill 5 titans wouldn't work (the dreads would die)

deploying 50 to kill 5 titans... you'd lose some, but the titans would die :)

this is a sensible balance - titans cost a lot more than dreads, you shouldn't be able to take an equal number of dreads, to an equal number of titans, and expect to win the fight ;)

HELIC0N ONE
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.05.28 13:14:00 - [15]
 

Titan gangs alphastriking dreadnoughts with death rays once every minute is, if anything, even more unbalanced than titan gangs with 250km AoE weapons popping subcaps once per hour (especially as, unlike dreads, subcaps can warp out before the DD hits).

killerbitsch
Posted - 2009.05.28 13:16:00 - [16]
 

still supporting, as i already wrote it in Vuk's topic also.

i think area DD should be kept, but with much less dmg output (fighting off drones/fighters/frigs) and with some tactical bonus (like an ECM burst), and focused DD should instapop a dread (or any non supercapital) to maintain balance. a couple of dreads kill of a titan pretty swiftly if the titan's solo, but the titan should be able to send to hell a few of them before going down even if he's solo.

and yes. titans were meant to be fleet command ships (look at their bonuses), with antiblob capabilities, but these days none of its bonuses nor the clone vat bay and ship hanger is used (at all!). people use only DD, and it shows that DD is way too much overpowered.

Butter Dog
Gallente
The Monocled Elite
Posted - 2009.05.28 18:39:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: HELIC0N ONE
Titan gangs alphastriking dreadnoughts with death rays once every minute is, if anything, even more unbalanced than titan gangs with 250km AoE weapons popping subcaps once per hour (especially as, unlike dreads, subcaps can warp out before the DD hits).


not when titans can be killed by a large BS fleet without fear of DD ;)

risk/reward/balance is effectively re-written, but still very much there

Dragon Greg
Posted - 2009.05.29 10:27:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Dragon Greg on 29/05/2009 10:28:26
The consequence of that is just going to be that we go overboard with the number of people we bring to compensate ... we'd be right back to the insane blobs of old times. Except now there is more people then ever before.

What would work is to enable a feature like this through scripts. That would make matters flexible, without making us go stupid.
This within a context of addressing the challenge of titans under jammers however.




 

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