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blankseplocked A new war: the "personal vendetta"
 
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meowcat
Aliastra
Posted - 2004.09.09 13:40:00 - [1]
 

Moved from General Discussions - Lomithrandra

It strikes me that Eve is lacking in one particular area - individual accountability.

Thus i have cobbled together a few thoughts, to form a rough idea that may serve to resolve this problem:


I suggest that CCP create a new kind of "Empire War", called a "Personal Vendetta". This would function like empire wars between corporations but would be applied only between individual characters.

ArrowIt would allow 2 players to fight in empire space over a personal grievance without involving the entire corp.
ArrowVendettas could be declared on individuals, even if they are a member of a newbie corp
ArrowYou cannot declare a vendetta against a character < 1 month old (or other suitable limit to protect genuine new players)
ArrowThe vendetta would remain active for a limited duration (1 week?)
ArrowThe vendetta cannot be repeated against the same character for 1 month (or other suitable time period to prevent griefing)

Feel free to flame/troll or even add constructive comments

flummox
Posted - 2004.09.09 13:42:00 - [2]
 

works for me. would be really nice to have this...

Vex Seraphim
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2004.09.09 13:45:00 - [3]
 

you mean lynching? that is.. ganking? in empire?
Rolling Eyes

Nerhtal Al'Thali
Caldari
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front
Posted - 2004.09.09 13:47:00 - [4]
 

cool, quite like the concept. Like a war between two people only and it has a limited duration and you cannot re-war as soon as the duration is up.

Well, would sort out ore thieves i suppose :)

Randuin MaraL
Minmatar
Encina Technologies
Namtz'aar k'in
Posted - 2004.09.09 13:47:00 - [5]
 

Should be made sure that you do not exploit a vendetta, coming in with a gang on that poor 2 months old cruiser pilot you declared vendetta upon. Beside of that - I like it.

meowcat
Aliastra
Posted - 2004.09.09 14:04:00 - [6]
 

i dont believe this would be lynching/ganking, as limited numbers of vendettas would be available to each player, and each declaration would expire, and could not be immediately redeclared

accountability is missing from the game

experienced players are hiding behind game mechanisms designed to protect new players (concord, newbie corps, etc) and it shouldn't be allowed to continue

this is the best idea i've had since i discovered Chocolate Brandy Milkshake


Wylaf Umberg
Posted - 2004.09.09 14:09:00 - [7]
 

Would be difficult to avoid corp members declaring
vendetta after each other on the same player = either
lynching or part-corp war, take your choice.

meowcat
Aliastra
Posted - 2004.09.09 14:11:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Wylaf Umberg
Would be difficult to avoid corp members declaring
vendetta after each other on the same player = either
lynching or part-corp war, take your choice.


if that heppends, the targets corp would just declare war against them

petergriffen
Amarr
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2004.09.09 14:29:00 - [9]
 

Pretty good idea...

Maybe a limit to the number of active personal vendettas... maybe one at a time?

While this would keep a number of players from declaring a vendetta against a single player, it wouldn't prevent a corp from declaring war on the enemy's corp... Though it makes sense to work that way.

Xanshiva
Caldari
Camelot Innovations
Posted - 2004.09.09 14:38:00 - [10]
 

As you know from my other thread, "Letters of Marque", I am a BIG fan of individual responsibility -- this is a good idea. Almost like a Code Duello, or a formalized, licensed duelists code.

I can see several places where this would be appropriate. Good idea

Lizaa
Caldari
The Illuminatus Foundation
Posted - 2004.09.09 14:38:00 - [11]
 

mmmmm.... empire pwnage .... mmmmmmmm that would rock i could track and own all by myself then........... sweetTwisted Evil

Crowley
Without Reason
Posted - 2004.09.09 14:41:00 - [12]
 

Yup us pirates would love that :D

I say yay to it with 30 second wait til it goes into effect

YAAAAR

Harry Voyager
Jolly Codgers
Posted - 2004.09.09 14:50:00 - [13]
 

Sounds reasonable to me. I would also suggest, in addition to the number of active vendettas on a person, a limitation that noone can declare a vendetta on a person in the same PC corp, or (possibly) alliance, as they already have right of fire on them. Otherwise it would be possible to protect someone by having their corpmates all declare "vendettas" on them, and filling up the list.

Harry Voyager

WTHECK NOLABS
Posted - 2004.09.09 14:55:00 - [14]
 

M0o Pirates ever fight by themselves on purpose?
What yall been sniffin?

Zzazzt
Gallente
Millennium
Posted - 2004.09.09 15:02:00 - [15]
 

This would make bounty hunting in empire feasable - you "vendetta" your target and can then chase him anywhere - damn fine idea in principle

Jungle Jim
The Black Rabbits
Fatal Persuasion
Posted - 2004.09.09 15:13:00 - [16]
 

I like it,

You would only really be annoyed with one person at a time so 1 vendettat slot? (Unless ur easily annoyed)

The < 1 month old char thing would not stop dedicated ore thieves, they would just start over...

JJ

Sparhawk
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2004.09.09 15:21:00 - [17]
 

Point of View:

Personal vendettas are all fine and dandy, but what is to stop pirates from picking innocent pilots as an excuse to enter 0.5 -1.0 and pod.

Suggestion:

(1) Pilots who are not in a player corporation cannot set bountys, or vendettas. This will stop experienced players from hiding behind NPC Corps like cowards. If they would like to go after a player while in an NPC then they can hire a Merc corp.

(2) Player corporations are limited to the total number of bountys that can be placed on pilots per month.

(3) Security Officers within player corporations are the only players who can place a bounty on a player.

(4) Players who have bountys placed on them can be tracked using the Map Feature. Perhaps there can be a skill called Bounty Hunter which allows those trained to track the bounty they have elected to pursue. Once a player collects a bounty it is listed in their profile.

Shiakarma
Minmatar
Mythos Corp
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2004.09.09 15:28:00 - [18]
 

Wow I've never seen so many people all agree with meowcat Laughing (j/k Wink )

I'm all for this idea, sounds pretty good. If the number of vendettas was limited against a person it would protect the noobs (who could manage to avoid just a few people) and make it a little more difficult to bounty hunt anyone of any decent value in empire (otherwise pirates would all have 100's of personal vendettas and they'd only whine on the boards Wink ).

meowcat
Aliastra
Posted - 2004.09.09 15:30:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Sparhawk
Point of View:

Personal vendettas are all fine and dandy, but what is to stop pirates from picking innocent pilots as an excuse to enter 0.5 -1.0 and pod.

Suggestion:

(1) Pilots who are not in a player corporation cannot set bountys, or vendettas. This will stop experienced players from hiding behind NPC Corps like cowards. If they would like to go after a player while in an NPC then they can hire a Merc corp.

(2) Player corporations are limited to the total number of bountys that can be placed on pilots per month.

(3) Security Officers within player corporations are the only players who can place a bounty on a player.

(4) Players who have bountys placed on them can be tracked using the Map Feature. Perhaps there can be a skill called Bounty Hunter which allows those trained to track the bounty they have elected to pursue. Once a player collects a bounty it is listed in their profile.


i dont think this should effect the existing restrictions on personal sec status and system sec status (ie: if you're -10 you still wont be able to enter 1.0) same as a corp war really

(1) i think anyone should be able to declare a vendetta. obviously the person you are declaring against can shoot back, regardless of what corp you/they are in

(2) good idea... limits of various kinds are needed to reduce exploits

(3) seems reasonable

(4) this might make it too easy. agents can track people for you.

Although this idea does help with the bounty hunting career, it shouldnt be viewed as such exclusively. Personal vendettas could be declared for all sorts of reasons: "you stole my ore", "you scammed me", "your face offends me" etc

War Games
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2004.09.09 15:47:00 - [20]
 

***Breaking News***

Due to meowcat's suggestion involving some sort of logic... CCP mainframe has aquired a new bug. Please don't post things that involve logic or would make the game fun against such things as ore pests / n00b corp pirates.... this will only make matters worse....

CCP computers were reported in the usual computer voices of mumbling...

"Logic... does not compute.... see irrational dev for help in logical manners... does not compute... must bug market.... must bug lag.... logic.... server node crash....."

HEHE... btw... on topic... this is a good idea in my opinion...

Vex Seraphim
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2004.09.09 16:01:00 - [21]
 

Rethought the idea, sounds ok if:
vendettas should be ONLY allowed on people who either have a bounty, a -sec status or both.

Scorpyn
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
Posted - 2004.09.09 16:04:00 - [22]
 

1. Select a target in a corp
2. Everybody goes to different corps, and then declares a personal vendetta against that person

This will make it possible to declare war on a person by multiple ppl without being able to get the corp mates to defend the person, as there is no single corp to declare war on and they will be too many to declare a personal vendetta on every single person.

The only valid reason I see for this is to be able to get ppl hiding in npc corps, but then it should only be possible against ppl in npc corps.

meowcat
Aliastra
Posted - 2004.09.09 16:13:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: meowcat on 09/09/2004 16:16:51
Originally by: Scorpyn
1. Select a target in a corp
2. Everybody goes to different corps, and then declares a personal vendetta against that person

This will make it possible to declare war on a person by multiple ppl without being able to get the corp mates to defend the person, as there is no single corp to declare war on and they will be too many to declare a personal vendetta on every single person.

The only valid reason I see for this is to be able to get ppl hiding in npc corps, but then it should only be possible against ppl in npc corps.


that would be a waste for 'vendetta' slots

there are lots of good reasons for this idea, some of which have been spelt out quite clearly in this thread

- it makes bounty hunting viable
- it stops ppl hiding in noob corps
- it allows junior corp members to act against their enemies without having to persuade the directors to use up a war slot
- it allows other personal gripes to be resolved without dragging the whole corp into a personal issue
- duelling!!!
- it creates ACCOUNTABILITY

yes, it's a raw idea, and it needs detailed work to make sure it isn't expoitable... but it's based on the existing corp war system.

edit: the problems you identify could easily be countered by (a) limiting the number of declarations each person can issue and recieve at any given time, (b) charging ISK for each declaration.... also several other constraints already mentioned.

Thraxll
Minmatar
D'Ahrk Prophesy
Posted - 2004.09.09 16:19:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Vex Seraphim
Rethought the idea, sounds ok if:
vendettas should be ONLY allowed on people who either have a bounty, a -sec status or both.


I like the overall idea, but not the above suggestions. An ore thief (which I believe is primarily what this is about) isn't generally likely to have a -sec status.

As for bounties, I don't get why more people don't understand that placing a bounty on an "enemy" is the same thing as giving them money. If I had a bounty on my head I'd have my other account pod myself and collect the free money. If I didn't have another account I'd ask a friend or corp mate to create an alt and have them pod me (and perhaps give them a slight commission payment from the free money I just earned.)

Any idea that involves the "bounty" system is a no-go IMO.




Sparhawk
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2004.09.09 16:45:00 - [25]
 


i dont think this should effect the existing restrictions on personal sec status and system sec status (ie: if you're -10 you still wont be able to enter 1.0) same as a corp war really

(1) i think anyone should be able to declare a vendetta. obviously the person you are declaring against can shoot back, regardless of what corp you/they are in

(2) good idea... limits of various kinds are needed to reduce exploits

(3) seems reasonable

(4) this might make it too easy. agents can track people for you.

Idea Perhaps we could limit the view to the pilot who agreed to take the bounty contract.

Although this idea does help with the bounty hunting career, it shouldnt be viewed as such exclusively. Personal vendettas could be declared for all sorts of reasons: "you stole my ore", "you scammed me", "your face offends me" etc


Arrow I stand corrected. I would agree that my post is dealing with two different issues.


Cadman Weyland
Irn Bru Crew
Posted - 2004.09.09 16:46:00 - [26]
 

I like. Spells death to Zeepo, Tech 2 Shoppe and their ilk. Ore thives and escrow scammers are dead if this comes in.

Pity the $*&% that ripped me off for 65 mil never ever undocks from a station.

Sad

Raeff
Body Count Inc.
The Requiem
Posted - 2004.09.09 17:59:00 - [27]
 

just got 3 comments:
A) YES
B) YES!!!
C) OH GOD YES!!!

..whew, i need a smoke now Wink

stinky fecker
Posted - 2004.09.09 20:42:00 - [28]
 

bloody good idea

Kaillam
Posted - 2004.09.09 21:37:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Thraxll


As for bounties, I don't get why more people don't understand that placing a bounty on an "enemy" is the same thing as giving them money. If I had a bounty on my head I'd have my other account pod myself and collect the free money. If I didn't have another account I'd ask a friend or corp mate to create an alt and have them pod me (and perhaps give them a slight commission payment from the free money I just earned.)

Any idea that involves the "bounty" system is a no-go IMO.



...not if they have implants...

Thraxll
Minmatar
D'Ahrk Prophesy
Posted - 2004.09.09 21:42:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Kaillam
Originally by: Thraxll


As for bounties, I don't get why more people don't understand that placing a bounty on an "enemy" is the same thing as giving them money. If I had a bounty on my head I'd have my other account pod myself and collect the free money. If I didn't have another account I'd ask a friend or corp mate to create an alt and have them pod me (and perhaps give them a slight commission payment from the free money I just earned.)

Any idea that involves the "bounty" system is a no-go IMO.



...not if they have implants...


Yeah, yeah, they lose their implants (if they even have any.)

Just looking at the billboards I see some bounties that'd more than cover a decent (not top of the line, sure) set of implants. They STILL come out ahead. Not to mention the fact that there's no way to know if your target has implants, anyway.

And besides, I'm sure that most hardcore PVP players (such as pirates that tend to get bounties on their heads) are running around without implants (or with only the cheap ones) as they tend to run a high risk of being podded on a regular basis.

The bounty system is a joke, IMO. ugh



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