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SubQuark
Posted - 2009.05.17 11:03:00 - [1]
 

I am getting ECM scorpion and I am trying to work on my fittings. The truth is that I dont know a lot about ECM jammers and their mechanics and Id like some clarification.
1) Does the chance of jamming a target decrease as you cross the optimal range?
2) Does ECM simply makes the target unlock all the targets when it starts to cycle or does it also prevent the ship from targeting anything for the duration of the cycle (given that it was sucessful)?
3) Same as number two but with ECM Burst, does it only make the targets unlock or also prevents them from re-locking?
4) Does ECM burst behave in simmilar way that simple ECM behaves in relation to their jamming chances: ECM has a chance to jam a target according to targets sensor strength and its own strength, any ship can be jammed but what about ECM Burst? Does it only affect targets with less that [Bursts jamming strength] (drones, mabye frigs) or does it behave in simmilar manner as ECM?
5) Can I tell if I sucessfuly jammed a target appart from seeing him unlocking me?

Thank you in advance.

4THELULZ
Posted - 2009.05.17 11:17:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: 4THELULZ on 17/05/2009 11:24:36
1. AFAIK falloff does reduce the chance to jam
2. Both, the target can't lock anything for 20 seconds when jammed
3. ECM burst does not prevent re-lock
4. Yes it has the same jam chance as regular ECM
5. Yes you can, a countdown bar will appear under the target indicating they have been jammed.

Edit: as an added bit of advice, it might be a good idea to start off in a Blackbird first.
As for fitting, opinion seems to vary quite a bit on how much you should tank a Scorpion, but personally I flew this:

[Scorpion, PVP]
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Damage Control II

Sensor Booster II
ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II
ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II
ECM - Phase Inverter II
ECM - White Noise Generator II
ECM - White Noise Generator II
ECM - Ion Field Projector II
Invulnerability Field II

XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Particle Dispersion Augmentor I


Warrior II x5
Hammerhead II x5

It's a bit wierd (my FC had some unusual ways of using it) but it worked fairly well.

Kendon Riddick
Posted - 2009.05.17 11:21:00 - [3]
 

you activate jammer in range, you have a chance to stop him locking anything for 20 seconds, if you are successful you will see a bar counting down the jam. The target will loose any locks it already has.

you will have less chance to jam the further you go out of your optimal, and after your fall off you will loose alot more.

an ECM burst just makes any affected ships in range loock all locks, it does not prevent them from relocking. And with the cycle time beig fairly lengthy (and the range so short) does not make for a popular choice, also note drones instantly relock so a burst is not an effective drone defence like a smartbomb.

Pesets
The Hunt Club
Posted - 2009.05.17 11:22:00 - [4]
 

Burst doesn't jam, it just makes people lose lock on you (chance based per target afaik) - once they lost lock, they can relock you right away. It's meant to be used when you get locked and tackled by a whole bunch of stuff and need to gtfo (though honestly i wouldn't rely on it to save you in such a situation).

Regular jammers prevent you from locking anything for the duration of the cycle (in addition to making you lose lock on whatever you might have had locked). ECM is less effective in falloff, but i'm not sure about the exact formula.

You should be able to tell if you jammed someone, but don't know how exactly (i think it tells you in that jam cycle bar under the target icon). I believe both burst and regular jammers work the same way with regards to success chance - stronger sensors give you better chance, but you are never guaranteed to jam someone 100% of the time.

SubQuark
Posted - 2009.05.17 11:25:00 - [5]
 

Cheers guys o7

SubQuark
Posted - 2009.05.17 11:27:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: SubQuark on 17/05/2009 11:27:40
Originally by: 4THELULZ
Edited by: 4THELULZ on 17/05/2009 11:24:36
1. AFAIK falloff does reduce the chance to jam
2. Both, the target can't lock anything for 20 seconds when jammed
3. ECM burst does not prevent re-lock
4. Yes it has the same jam chance as regular ECM
5. Yes you can, a countdown bar will appear under the target indicating they have been jammed.

Edit: as an added bit of advice, it might be a good idea to start off in a Blackbird first.
As for fitting, opinion seems to vary quite a bit on how much you should tank a Scorpion, but personally I flew this:

[Scorpion, PVP]
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Damage Control II

Sensor Booster II
ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II
ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II
ECM - Phase Inverter II
ECM - White Noise Generator II
ECM - White Noise Generator II
ECM - Ion Field Projector II
Invulnerability Field II

XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Particle Dispersion Augmentor I


Warrior II x5
Hammerhead II x5

It's a bit wierd (my FC had some unusual ways of using it) but it worked fairly well.


Yes I did jam in a blackbird and I want something with more jamming potential now. I cant decide if I should make myself the ultimate jammer or stick plates in low slots and tank something as well though.
Btw dont you have problems to stay out of range without AB/MWD?

4THELULZ
Posted - 2009.05.17 11:29:00 - [7]
 

Not really. There were only two scenarios I ran into
- Fighting on a gate - could warp off anyway just by jamming their tacklers or hang around and contribute some firepower (which I did, gotta love ending up at a decent spot in damage on killmails Very Happy)
- Warping in on the enemy, in which case I just dropped in at 100km and thanks to some very competant friends the enemy never got to me.

SubQuark
Posted - 2009.05.17 13:12:00 - [8]
 

Also I noticed that when jamming a ship, after I activate all my jammers at once (which I do just in emergency) the ship is still targeting me so I assume it all failed but then half way through the cycle it drops me. Is that just graphical lagg or in-game lagg?

Akaliptos
Posted - 2009.05.27 14:04:00 - [9]
 

Any ideas how to deal with ECM bursts and jamming? I have a mission and I can't lock a target or even I manage to lock a few target it is only for a few seconds. Thx!

Gavin DeVries
Posted - 2009.05.27 14:40:00 - [10]
 

Ak, you're talking about NPC jamming in a mission? It works completely differently. You can try to kill the jamming ships before they jam you. You can get your drones out before you get jammed, and let them go autopilot from there; just be aware that they might aggro other ships in the mission that aren't aggro'd yet. You can use Friend-Or-Foe missiles if you're in a missile ship, though these don't hit as hard as regular missiles.

I've been told that if you do something that changes your sensor strength - like activating an ECCM module - after you get jammed, it breaks the jamming and forces them to try again. I can't say if this really works.

Halle 9000
Posted - 2009.05.27 15:26:00 - [11]
 

Just out of curiosity, is it not worth fitting Multispectral ECM for PvP ever? Even with the Dist Amps in lowslots? Or is the lack of strength compared to specific ECM types too big a trade off?

Max Tux
Posted - 2009.05.27 18:16:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Halle 9000
Just out of curiosity, is it not worth fitting Multispectral ECM for PvP ever? Even with the Dist Amps in lowslots? Or is the lack of strength compared to specific ECM types too big a trade off?


unless the ship has an ECM bonus, there is usually another module that can do there to much better effect, it more tackle, sensor damp ( on sniper) sensor booster for faster lock, more tank. there are occasions where fitting ecm on non bonused ships can be useful, but it is the exception, rather than the rule

Johan Sabbat
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.05.27 20:15:00 - [13]
 

Just to be picky, the chance of jamming does not decrease in fall off. Should you attempt to jam someone outside your optimal then you must first 'hit' them with the jammer so jamming in fall off is something like: Jam chance * hit chance.

Halle 9000
Posted - 2009.05.27 20:19:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Max Tux
Originally by: Halle 9000
Just out of curiosity, is it not worth fitting Multispectral ECM for PvP ever? Even with the Dist Amps in lowslots? Or is the lack of strength compared to specific ECM types too big a trade off?


unless the ship has an ECM bonus, there is usually another module that can do there to much better effect, it more tackle, sensor damp ( on sniper) sensor booster for faster lock, more tank. there are occasions where fitting ecm on non bonused ships can be useful, but it is the exception, rather than the rule


I was more referring to the ECM ships themselves, i.e. the benefits of specific ECM over Multispectrals. The main difference I can see besides the strength of the effect is that Multispecs use more cap... However, you did answer another thing I was pondering which was why we don't see more ECM being used all round.

Atsuko Ratu
Caldari
Quafe Industries
Posted - 2009.05.27 22:47:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Halle 9000


I was more referring to the ECM ships themselves, i.e. the benefits of specific ECM over Multispectrals. The main difference I can see besides the strength of the effect is that Multispecs use more cap... However, you did answer another thing I was pondering which was why we don't see more ECM being used all round.


Racials have a much longer range.

Vidi Angelus
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2009.05.27 23:47:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Vidi Angelus on 27/05/2009 23:47:47
Originally by: Atsuko Ratu
Originally by: Halle 9000


I was more referring to the ECM ships themselves, i.e. the benefits of specific ECM over Multispectrals. The main difference I can see besides the strength of the effect is that Multispecs use more cap... However, you did answer another thing I was pondering which was why we don't see more ECM being used all round.


Racials have a much longer range.



Indeed, Longer range, Less Cap use.

If you can Fit 4 Jammers, Use one of each racial, If 3 or less I'd fit Multi. One of each racial is more effective than 3 multi's.

Dependant on if you know what's coming and what team mates have fitted, Of course.

I'd agree with the sentiment that you should fly a T1 fit blackbird a dozens times or so before you go with the scorp, else you risk an expensive learning curve.

Thrases
Posted - 2009.05.27 23:53:00 - [17]
 

Just a note that I made a little program that might help when using EFT and ECM ships. It predicts the chance of jamming another ship.

Linkage

Though I am yet to use it in a real dog fight... Embarassed


 

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