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Earthican
Minmatar
DARKFELL EXCURSIONS
Reverberation Project
Posted - 2009.05.15 01:05:00 - [151]
 

You touched on a sensitive issue for me ( read: I'm ****ed off again ) with the mention of grouping mining modules in the patch notes.

Simply because Battleship and cruiser miners are the minority it does not seem to me that we should be neglected. Perhaps CCP is trying to create a sand-box game for simplicity and ease of programming.

Could you please add this oversight to the upcoming hot-patch?

G'Kar5
Gallente
Intaki Research and Manufacturing
Distorted Percepts
Posted - 2009.05.15 01:18:00 - [152]
 

The change to refreshing the Science & Industry->Blueprints/Corp Blueprints screen was a really, really, really, really bad one. Who came up with this idea? Can you drop them out of the window like the you did the "boot.ini" guy? Seriously, its very annoying to re-scroll down to the same position you were in if you have 100's of BPO's. This is very similar to the market where you gave us the ability to DISABLE auto-refresh for this same very reason.

Lord Jita
Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp
Posted - 2009.05.15 01:57:00 - [153]
 

Originally by: Horrific Testicle

Successfully? WTF. Not even close. What isn't ****ed up in this game at the moment.


Agree, please stop calling this patch successful. Two huge, game breaking problems introduced. Both problems outlined in your own forums days in advance. You have serious problems in your development process for these to not have been caught. Take off the rose-tinted glasses and fix your processes that allowed this to happen and stop patronizing your customers at the same time by calling this "success."



Glari
Posted - 2009.05.15 02:16:00 - [154]
 

I know this isn't the major issue but:
Originally by: Zostera
Further to this I find that in the absence of a bubble, it is pretty easy to align/mwd/cloak/uncloak/instawarp in a battleship of all things.

If you uncloak already aligned and moving (slowly), how long is it supposed to take to warp? I thought most of the time to enter warp was align time, so this doesn't seem that crazy to me. What am I missing? Do you insta-align as well by using the cloak/uncloak cycle?

Shanija
Posted - 2009.05.15 03:34:00 - [155]
 

As a covops pilot, I'm amazed that the cloak change went live, too, and it's good to hear it was unintentional, though it would also be nice to hear how it was missed with the huge threads about it everywhere.

But I'm also amazed to hear that the Three Probe Bug is still not fixed. In case it's unclear, the Three Probe Bug is the one where only the first hit when you have multiple hits with probes is displayed - for example, a hit on a signature with three probes always gives two different locations, and since Apocrypha 1.1 only the first of these locations ever displays no matter which you select in the scan window. This also applies to other situations where you can get the same signal from multiple probes without getting a multi-probe hit, like when two probes are at too similar an angle from the site in the same direction.

This bug is a significant annoyance and time-waster for experienced probers, and it hamstrings new players attempting to learn the probing system by making the third step in the newbie scanning process (three-probe hits) completely nonsensical. I was surprised when it wasn't fixed as a matter of urgency immediately after 1.1, and I'm stunned it wasn't fixed in 1.2.

Thanks for reading, and good luck with the fixes!

Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
Posted - 2009.05.15 04:42:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Zostera
Many players made a significant effort both prior too and post patch to offer moderate, thought out, reasonable feedback. Would CCP please respond to that feedback on this issue please with a reasoned explanation of their intentions and consideration of the results we now have on TQ?


Hi folks, firstly an apology from all of us for screwing up and letting this slip through the cracks despite many of you trying very hard to indicate the serious gameplay fallout in the threads you linked previously Crying or Very sad. This started out life as a minor defect where a code fix was made to stop the ECM jamming continuing to work after you had cloaked.

The intention was for only this to be fixed, however as many of you are now acutely aware, the fallout from that supposedly minor defect fix to a single issue is rather massive and game breaking for many. This was very much not an intended gameplay change from us.

The change that caused this to all happen is being reverted at the earliest possible opportunity with a hotfix (no ETA yet) but we will make this right as soon as possible.





CCP, there is a reason why your company wins harder than any of your competitors (I'm looking at YOU Flying Lab Software Evil or Very Mad), and this is it. Bravo!

SK Rooster
No Trademark
Posted - 2009.05.15 06:04:00 - [157]
 

Originally by: Exlegion
Edited by: Exlegion on 14/05/2009 16:42:05
Originally by: Cass Tamuri
The changes to cloaking have rendered covert ops capable ships almost valueless in their primary role. Please reconsider this change and implement it for non-Covert Ops Cloaks

I think it's critical that non-Covert Ops ships fitted for travel also have a high chance of escaping gate camps. I live in low sec and spend what little time I can enjoying missions. But if I can't move my travel-fit battleship around it will force me to move back to high security space.






its called a scout

Plastered
Posted - 2009.05.15 06:44:00 - [158]
 

The function in this patch to auto remove installed BPCs from the Science and Industry window has had a major negative side effect.

Once you install a job the list of BPCs rolls up and changes the view to the top. Anyone who cranks out lots of Manufacture jobs at one time now has to scroll down and find where they left off. This is a major time impact on builders.

Not having the BPC removed was a minor nuisance since you might try to build it again. This is more of an issue since you always lose your place in the BPC list.

Please roll this back or address accordingly.


Interghast
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Posted - 2009.05.15 06:50:00 - [159]
 

Originally by: Hermosa Diosas
I had an issue where I undocked, i was able to be locked before i could dock again and got killed! then when i tried to redock the undocking timer reset again meaning i couldnt redock the pod, thus losing my pod also!! arrggghh

This might not be related to the patch, however without more details on what happened to you I will assume you undocked, did something, got locked, hit dock and were refused.

Reason:

When you undock you have a 30 second session change timer (you can enable a display of this from one of the escape menu options).

You are also under a 30 second invulnerability which is broken if you activate modules or try to move your ship.

In addition when you get put into a pod you are again under 30 second session change, but without the invulnerability of course.


There is a funny at the moment where you hit dock while under fire, have docking request accepted but when station environment loads you are in your pod in that station (not due to being podded though) and the ship has exploded.

Raven Six
Posted - 2009.05.15 08:16:00 - [160]
 

I really miss those golden shiny floors in Minmatar stations. Please bring them back! Also, that produced like THE most prominent HDR/Bloom effect.Made spinning your ships around so much more fun! :-P

Disintegrator
Minmatar
Kinetic Cartel
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2009.05.15 08:28:00 - [161]
 

I hate this patch, really.
Now i have 5 seconds invincibility every time i jump through gate. It means that i can't activate mwd or any other mod (it says i'm still cloaked), but i can warp or move.
That way i jumped into camp with bubble and i slowboated to gate, untargetted by many tacklers. Then i tried same thing by slowboating from bubble and them warping ...

I know it can sound awesome to someone, but not for solo Pvper!!!

Btw being shot by drones from ship, which locked you 30 AU away and being shot by them is ... bad ;(

On the other hand i heard that MWD can be usable in every mission now c/d?

Miyamoto Uroki
Caldari
Sarum Industries
Posted - 2009.05.15 08:42:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Zostera
Many players made a significant effort both prior too and post patch to offer moderate, thought out, reasonable feedback. Would CCP please respond to that feedback on this issue please with a reasoned explanation of their intentions and consideration of the results we now have on TQ?


Hi folks, firstly an apology from all of us for screwing up and letting this slip through the cracks despite many of you trying very hard to indicate the serious gameplay fallout in the threads you linked previously Crying or Very sad.



Dear Chronotis,
from my side, CCP's apologies are accepted. Though may I ask for your (personnel?) opinion on communication relations from CCP staff to your customers, us.
I think we all agree that the relation of ccp crew and customers is unlike than any other producer<->customer relationship out there. It's not even comparable to the relationship of usual , non-mmo, game developers and their customers.

We all know that we, the players, most times don't think of the big picture of eve when whining about gameplay decisions ccp made. It's a bit comparable to lobbyism to be honest.

But all in all, many of us are experts in questions of how the eve gameplay will change when certain things are changed. Sure, you guys ask for our opinion in several matters, especially speaking of CCP Nozh, who as a lead designer, is doing a nice job in sharing his thoughts with us in the game development forums. Or Zulupark's Q+A. Kudos to that.

But one ccp employee is maybe not enough. You are wasting unused resources with not letting us take part in the design process, in my humble opinion.

First and foremost point of critics is communications. You once had the idea of publishing your internal development timeline. Like what features/balancings/content you are working on atm and in near future. Like the sections under Patch Notes, but extended and regularly updated.
And if you have decided against something like this, may we get to know why so?

The most frustrating aspect for us customers, who really love eve and has been with this game and you guys for so long, is to not know whats going on behind the scenes. To not know where eve is heading towards.

Many areas are in need of overhauls, thats just the normal process. But a timeframe on when to expect working on given aspects on the game would be damn nice to know.

But as a long time player, people don't listen anymore to your promises of things being worked on or planned. Cause usually you announce an overhaul or a design change, and then it's left in the dark forever. Examples?:

- Mining System overhaul, announced since like 2 years ago?
- Interbus, announced since beta?

We would like to know what's happening behind the scenes. What you are working on. This would improve satisfaction about 200% of your customers. And it's not a big task really.


And right after communications there comes involvment. Tell us about the changes you are introducing to the game, about planned mechanics for a new feature etc. And let us tell you how it will change the big scale gameplay in eve beforehand.
Like I said before, many of us are experts in this area, sometimes even more than your game designers.
Again, CCP Nozh comes to my mind, but it's not consitent enough.


Maybe hire one or two more peeps to act as the interface of ccp peeps in charge and customers on the forums.
The current forum team has enought to do with banning bad forum users and keeping threads clean.

A small, more interface related additional forum team would be nice, if your developers or people in charge doesn't have the time to watch out for important threads all over the forums.

Busca Tor
Minmatar
Xana Tati factory inc
Chained Reactions
Posted - 2009.05.15 10:17:00 - [163]
 

Edited by: Busca Tor on 15/05/2009 10:18:31
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:

Meh, a cyclone in a sig. Does anyone still fly that thing?



Sorry if i dont jump the Drake bandwagon, it fits my play style. so wath?

I'm off topic here. how to delete a post ??? Embarassed

2hot2trot
Posted - 2009.05.15 10:39:00 - [164]
 

I've been a citizen of Eve for about 6 months now, and have never felt strongly enough about an issue to write in these forums before. So please understand that this issue is truly important to me and honestly is really effecting my enjoyment of the Eve experience.
Simply put the Noise from active shield hardeners is DEAFENING atm. Crying or Very sadSeriously, it's such a loud, low, repetitative drone that it causes me a headache. The only way around this for me is to move the camera position a long way away from my ship, and hence a long way away from all of the shiny graphics that you guys have spent so much time on, and that I have spent so much of my money on in order to see.Rolling Eyes
Please, please do something about this issue as soon as possible. The visual effect from the hardeners is lovely, and more than enough to let myself and others know that they are active. Please remove this noise !

Freyya
Advanced Planetary Exports
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2009.05.15 11:59:00 - [165]
 

Everyone on the no mwd cycle finish while cloaking: It seems it has been patched during this DT. Please test on your end Wink

Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate
Posted - 2009.05.15 12:04:00 - [166]
 

Originally by: SK Rooster
Originally by: Exlegion
I think it's critical that non-Covert Ops ships fitted for travel also have a high chance of escaping gate camps. I live in low sec and spend what little time I can enjoying missions. But if I can't move my travel-fit battleship around it will force me to move back to high security space.

its called a scout

So does everyone now have to buy a second account to metagame? Or are you suggesting someone needs to stop what they're doing when I log in and scout every low sec gate for me to make my own gameplay comfortable? Because I find neither of those solutions reasonable.

CCP, please allow prpoerly-fit travelling ships in low sec to get through gate camps, including battleships.


CCP Chronotis

Posted - 2009.05.15 12:23:00 - [167]
 

Folks,

During downtime today, we reverted the fix which caused the cloak-instawarping behaviour amongst other things as we mentioned previously.

The remaining separate issue of the 3-5 second module activation delay after decloaking has been fixed internally and will be patched to Tranquillity early next week hopefully which should resolve all the issues most of you are seeing.


Snake O'Donell
Gallente
Core Impulse
Posted - 2009.05.15 12:29:00 - [168]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Folks,

During downtime today, we reverted the fix which caused the cloak-instawarping behaviour amongst other things as we mentioned previously.

The remaining separate issue of the 3-5 second module activation delay after decloaking has been fixed internally and will be patched to Tranquillity early next week hopefully which should resolve all the issues most of you are seeing.



\o/ So we can mwd cloak again?

Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate
Posted - 2009.05.15 12:30:00 - [169]
 

Just tested it! Thank you!! Very Happy


Faffywaffy
Fremen Sietch
DarkSide.
Posted - 2009.05.15 12:36:00 - [170]
 

Edited by: Faffywaffy on 15/05/2009 12:43:25
Edited by: Faffywaffy on 15/05/2009 12:42:55
Edited by: Faffywaffy on 15/05/2009 12:36:51
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Folks,

During downtime today, we reverted the fix which caused the cloak-instawarping behaviour amongst other things as we mentioned previously.

The remaining separate issue of the 3-5 second module activation delay after decloaking has been fixed internally and will be patched to Tranquillity early next week hopefully which should resolve all the issues most of you are seeing.




Great work on fixing the cloak-instawarp bug, but really it is the issue of the 3-5 second module activation delay after decloaking that makes the game unplayable (for PvPers). It basically means that all scouts are dead upon the first bubble camp they encounter, as they are unable to reapproach gate, mwd-cloak, or even MWD outside the bubble and warp away. This renders most forms of pvp risky to the point of suicidal. All you can do is sit in system and camp a gate.

I would like to urge you to please, please, fix this issue sooner than "early next week, hopefully".

Freyya
Advanced Planetary Exports
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2009.05.15 12:49:00 - [171]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Folks,

During downtime today, we reverted the fix which caused the cloak-instawarping behaviour amongst other things as we mentioned previously.

The remaining separate issue of the 3-5 second module activation delay after decloaking has been fixed internally and will be patched to Tranquillity early next week hopefully which should resolve all the issues most of you are seeing.




I suggest you take another look at the quick and dirty fix that has been done. You are able to let the mwd do an almost full cycle on an Arazu AFTER you engaged warp. It displays a message that you can't but it still displays the mwd going into cycle. Once warp is initiated it will display the message again and the cycle is cut short a shy bit. It doesn't seem to speed up the warp process so i think it's a graphical bug.

Ancy Denaries
Posted - 2009.05.15 12:57:00 - [172]
 

Great merciful Christ! Shocked I cannot believe what I'm reading in this thread! Real life threats, blatant overuse of foul language and downright asshattery. What the heck is WRONG with you people? It's a goddamn game! Ungrateful sons of ....

I'm not gonna bother arguing. All I'm gonna say is grow up and learn to post FEEDBACK, not piles of steaming poo. It's. Not. Helping.

All you do is make them ignore you even more. Now, post something constructive and you might get a reply.

Kids these days....

Ancy Denaries
Posted - 2009.05.15 13:01:00 - [173]
 

Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki
*too much common sense for this board*
In relations to my previous post, take THIS one as a prime example of HOW to present critizism.

Interghast
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Posted - 2009.05.15 13:21:00 - [174]
 

Originally by: Ancy Denaries
Great merciful Christ! Shocked I cannot believe what I'm reading in this thread! Real life threats, blatant overuse of foul language and downright asshattery. What the heck is WRONG with you people? It's a goddamn game! Ungrateful sons of ....

I'm not gonna bother arguing. All I'm gonna say is grow up and learn to post FEEDBACK, not piles of steaming poo. It's. Not. Helping.

All you do is make them ignore you even more. Now, post something constructive and you might get a reply.

Kids these days....

Whilst I agree with you that some responses have been rather poor, I have to point out that people did post constructive feedback over a week ago on these changes and it was ignored (no CCP reply even to state it was being looked at or working as intended).

Under these circumstances people on seeing that the very thing they reported bugged had been put live and then a couple of hours later be acknowledged by CCP to be a bug, well I can understand why people are frustrated with the whole situation.

As things stand the instawarping ship BS has been fixed, but the more troubling 3-5 second lag isn't. It has been also acknowledged to be a bug but will CCP refund ships lost to this issue - I doubt it.

In other games this kind of thing isn't an issue, but eve has in game penalty to loss of ships (i.e. you have to go buy another one) that whilst more of an irritation for the majority of people it is still not fun to be killed due to a known bug on the cusp of being patched.

Not to mention the large advantage it hands to people defending systems this weekend.

I would like to see CCP ask some of the regular testers on sisi for a list of known issues before patches are announced and maybe spend a little more time replying to threads on the game dev forum, if only to show that they are aware of the thread...

Kralin Ignatov
Gallente
Macabre Votum
Posted - 2009.05.15 13:21:00 - [175]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Zostera
Many players made a significant effort both prior too and post patch to offer moderate, thought out, reasonable feedback. Would CCP please respond to that feedback on this issue please with a reasoned explanation of their intentions and consideration of the results we now have on TQ?


Hi folks, firstly an apology from all of us for screwing up and letting this slip through the cracks despite many of you trying very hard to indicate the serious gameplay fallout in the threads you linked previously Crying or Very sad. This started out life as a minor defect where a code fix was made to stop the ECM jamming continuing to work after you had cloaked.

The intention was for only this to be fixed, however as many of you are now acutely aware, the fallout from that supposedly minor defect fix to a single issue is rather massive and game breaking for many. This was very much not an intended gameplay change from us.

The change that caused this to all happen is being reverted at the earliest possible opportunity with a hotfix (no ETA yet) but we will make this right as soon as possible.





Simple fix:
kill all target-based systems with the person in question. This way we can still have our mwds and cloaks and our recons survive past day 1, while this stops falcons from jamming people while cloaked

Ancy Denaries
Posted - 2009.05.15 13:49:00 - [176]
 

Edited by: Ancy Denaries on 15/05/2009 13:51:35
Originally by: Interghast
Whilst I agree with you that some responses have been rather poor, I have to point out that people did post constructive feedback over a week ago on these changes and it was ignored (no CCP reply even to state it was being looked at or working as intended).

Under these circumstances people on seeing that the very thing they reported bugged had been put live and then a couple of hours later be acknowledged by CCP to be a bug, well I can understand why people are frustrated with the whole situation.

As things stand the instawarping ship BS has been fixed, but the more troubling 3-5 second lag isn't. It has been also acknowledged to be a bug but will CCP refund ships lost to this issue - I doubt it.

In other games this kind of thing isn't an issue, but eve has in game penalty to loss of ships (i.e. you have to go buy another one) that whilst more of an irritation for the majority of people it is still not fun to be killed due to a known bug on the cusp of being patched.

Not to mention the large advantage it hands to people defending systems this weekend.

I would like to see CCP ask some of the regular testers on sisi for a list of known issues before patches are announced and maybe spend a little more time replying to threads on the game dev forum, if only to show that they are aware of the thread...
Oh I did in no way defend the misses made by CCP, or if it was ignored, mentioned to the wrong person or whatnot. Misses were made, bugs made it live that shouldn't have to. I don't deny that. My rage was pointed towards the, sorry, idiots who can't post comprehensively without threatening, using foul language or using derogatory remarks.

It's not fair for CCP to ignore pleads from the community, but NOTHING defends using the tone being used in this thread by, what I can see, the majority of the people. The only reason they do it is because if they did use this tone in real life, they'd get their faces punched in on a daily basis. On the internet, you don't have that risk, so they puff themselves.

Markie Mark
Posted - 2009.05.15 14:03:00 - [177]
 

Seconded that. We are in a fortunate position to have this 1-1 with the developers. Sure mistakes were made during this release ad some of them should never have made it past QA. But lets give a thumbs up to CCP for

1) admitting the mistakes
2) fixing the mistakes
3) giving us all such a fantastic game that we all enjoy so much

Its easy to bash them when mistakes are made. Lets also thank them for producing such a great game.

Karazack
The Littlest Hobos
En Garde
Posted - 2009.05.15 14:20:00 - [178]
 

Thanks for addressing the issue.

Zostera
Minmatar
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.05.15 14:44:00 - [179]
 

Thank you CCP for a fast response to the issues this patch raised for many of us. It is true to say that the relationship between CCP and it's customers is unique in my own MMO experience, would be great to take it that little bit further with more prior communication.

Lessons learned I hope.


Dorylaeum
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.05.15 14:50:00 - [180]
 

CCP should limit the patch notes to less than 2 A4 pages (size 12, Times New Roman) as every time they go over this limit they seem to break things.


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