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Phasics
Imperium Technologies
Posted - 2004.09.02 03:50:00 - [1]
 

Just a thought that mabe the way to drive some specialization would be to make it so if u you train a skill to lv5 you lose the ability to train the accosiated exclusive skill to lv5 also.

but you can still train all skills to lv4, so it wont be a huge limitation.

it will just means thoes that go crazy with say gunnery and get lots of lv5's wont be able to get lv5 in many of social and/or industrial skills.

thus people would still be able to train frig4, crusier 4 and get a battleship not matter what, but but getting frig5 might cut u from doing something else lv5.

call it a soft drive of specialzation

Doc Brown
Gallente
Capital Construction Research
Pioneer Alliance
Posted - 2004.09.02 04:02:00 - [2]
 

novel idea..

I don't agree with it, but it's still a good idea.

ActiveX
Dragon Wolf Enterprises
EVESpace
Posted - 2004.09.02 04:13:00 - [3]
 

Well, if you start limiting people, you need to let them unlearn skills and move the points around...otherwise you will just **** off the people who spent the time to train BS 5 etc.

Phasics
Imperium Technologies
Posted - 2004.09.02 04:57:00 - [4]
 

oh defeintly

everyone who has lv5 skills would lose thoes skills and get a skill point bank that they could then spend to buy back the lv5 skills after they know what it will limit them training

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2004.09.02 05:02:00 - [5]
 

mutually exclusive skills would be 1 step forward to giving new players a real chance to compete with old players. Old players just learn every damn skill in the game and there's absolutely no way a new player will ever be in fair situation.

I like this idea

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2004.09.02 06:51:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Ephemeron
mutually exclusive skills would be 1 step forward to giving new players a real chance to compete with old players. Old players just learn every damn skill in the game and there's absolutely no way a new player will ever be in fair situation.

I like this idea


Why exactly should new players be on par with old players?

Claire Scott
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2004.09.02 06:55:00 - [7]
 

Skills are important but they're not the end all/be all of things. Most people don't exactly know how to use the ship components, know that system can give you a leg up or at least a better chance for survival.

-E

Nicholas Marshal
Caldari
Lisa Needs Braces
Posted - 2004.09.02 07:07:00 - [8]
 

New players should never be on a par with older players.

Synex
Gallente
PCG Enterprises
Posted - 2004.09.02 08:14:00 - [9]
 

Exactly.. I've paid $150 more than a newb and put in lots of hard work and therefore... I am better than them.

They should bow before my massive skill point total and run in fear from my high standings. The should look in awe upon leet mining skills and be well impressed with that fact I can use Tech 2 Med Hyb turrets. They should be amazed that I can fly all the ships and use all the modules.

I am Synex. Fear ME newb and bend over before my majesty!


meowcat
Aliastra
Posted - 2004.09.02 08:17:00 - [10]
 

i suggested something like this a couple of months ago, and got flamed into oblivion Shocked

Phasics
Imperium Technologies
Posted - 2004.09.02 08:44:00 - [11]
 

sometiems takes people a while to get used to the idea.

but I'm not sure why people brought up the whole, I DONT WANT NO NEWB BEING AS GOOD AS ME ! I mean vets are still going to have a superior number of lv5 skills compared to a newb and with the new skills comming out, its not like the vets are ever going to run out of skills to train to lv5 , even being bared from some lv5 skills

NB some skills mutually exculsive partners may overlap, so that taking e.g. Lrg Hybrid V and Lrg Laser V only bars u from one social skill. its not a 1for1 basis.

so the most you'll ever be bared from is 1/4 give or take of all lv5 skills (do remember you can still train every skill to lv4)

hired goon
Posted - 2004.09.02 09:11:00 - [12]
 

I love this idea. I had this idea myself while on the bus about a month ago.

If you are one of these poor oldies that don't want newbs catching up to you, then put yourself in their shoes. What's the point playing if you know you'll never ever be as good as someone? Allah solved this problem in reality by putting a limiter on peoples lives so they don't go on aquiring knowledge and money for eternity. Unfortunately any campaign I make for 'character death', no matter how right, will never be passed. But I think this radical step towards specialization is excellent and should be implemented.

Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2004.09.02 09:22:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: hired goon


If you are one of these poor oldies that don't want newbs catching up to you, then put yourself in their shoes. What's the point playing if you know you'll never ever be as good as someone?



By your logic then, CCP should do a skillpoint reset every week so every has the same number of skillpoints. Rolling Eyes

Also, skill points dont mean better player. Experience is far more important. My alt has 350k skill points and flies frigates. Kills this week=10, losses 1. And that includes cruiser pilots. But with 350k skillpoints shouldn't be able to kill anything, right?

hired goon
Posted - 2004.09.02 13:48:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Miso
By your logic then, CCP should do a skillpoint reset every week so every has the same number of skillpoints. Rolling Eyes


Now you're getting the idea! Something similar was employed in the browser-based empire manegement game 'Planetarion' where the whole game would be reset something like three times a year. If they didn't do this, no new player would have joined, because the older ones would have exponentially increasing power. Plus those huge alliances. Was silly. But not with resets!

Of course there were loads of oldtimers on the boards with their 'goodbye' threads - leaving after the hassle of all the resets and seeing all their hard 'work' go down the drain. Of course the experience they'd gained in the game was not enough for their superiority. Newbs sung with happiness at their renewed chances at playing.

Originally by: Miso
Also, skill points dont mean better player. Experience is far more important. My alt has 350k skill points and flies frigates. Kills this week=10, losses 1. And that includes cruiser pilots. But with 350k skillpoints shouldn't be able to kill anything, right?


Exactly! Experience is what matters. So then you have justified your own (excellent as well I might add) idea about yearly resets! Wink

Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2004.09.02 13:53:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: hired goon
Originally by: Miso
By your logic then, CCP should do a skillpoint reset every week so every has the same number of skillpoints. Rolling Eyes


Now you're getting the idea! Something similar was employed in the browser-based empire manegement game 'Planetarion' where the whole game would be reset something like three times a year. If they didn't do this, no new player would have joined, because the older ones would have exponentially increasing power. Plus those huge alliances. Was silly. But not with resets!

Of course there were loads of oldtimers on the boards with their 'goodbye' threads - leaving after the hassle of all the resets and seeing all their hard 'work' go down the drain. Of course the experience they'd gained in the game was not enough for their superiority. Newbs sung with happiness at their renewed chances at playing.

Originally by: Miso
Also, skill points dont mean better player. Experience is far more important. My alt has 350k skill points and flies frigates. Kills this week=10, losses 1. And that includes cruiser pilots. But with 350k skillpoints shouldn't be able to kill anything, right?


Exactly! Experience is what matters. So then you have justified your own (excellent as well I might add) idea about yearly resets! Wink


lol, I get it know, you were joking...

you were joking, right?Shocked

LOLZ
Posted - 2004.09.02 13:58:00 - [16]
 

Quote:
Why exactly should new players be on par with old players?

because real life is so fair? and the goverment gives everyone millions each year so bill gates will never be that much richer than anyone else!Rolling Eyes

hired goon
Posted - 2004.09.02 14:13:00 - [17]
 

Look buddy. If I wanted real life, I wouldn't play eve would I?

Pychian Vanervi
Solar Revenue Service
TAXU
Posted - 2004.09.02 14:44:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: hired goon


Now you're getting the idea! Something similar was employed in the browser-based empire manegement game 'Planetarion' where the whole game would be reset something like three times a year. If they didn't do this, no new player would have joined, because the older ones would have exponentially increasing power. Plus those huge alliances. Was silly. But not with resets!

Of course there were loads of oldtimers on the boards with their 'goodbye' threads - leaving after the hassle of all the resets and seeing all their hard 'work' go down the drain. Of course the experience they'd gained in the game was not enough for their superiority. Newbs sung with happiness at their renewed chances at playing.




Is this like some old game that I have missed in all the reviews I have read ever??

You can't be playing Eve right if you think a yearly reset is what is needed. Either that or you have not been playing very long!!

You can get to 2-3 million skill points in 3 months or so, with that amount and some well planning training you should be able to compete reasonably with most in game. For starter lets take a random skill like, Surgical strike 2% damage bonus per level, so if you do a base damage of 100 then at level 5 its 110 damage at level 4 which takes 20+ days less to get you do 108 damage. So you see its not a huge difference to be worried about.

Now lets look at it from my view point, I am 14 months in game and have 9 million skills on my only character I use. I can hear the vets laugh at my pathetic skill total. But does this mean i fear a man with 10 or even 15 million skill points, not at all. Its the same for a noob why should he fear a man with 5 million 10 million or more, well he shouldn't as its skill, drive, cunning and intelligence that determine how a player performs in game.

I rambled and posibly sounded like I have no clue but made sense to me.Embarassed

Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2004.09.02 14:52:00 - [19]
 

Pych, goon is clearly on a wind-up. No one in their right mind would really advocate a skill reset. Its just too stupid to even contemplate.Very Happy

Riddari
VIT
Posted - 2004.09.02 14:56:00 - [20]
 

The time factor for level 5 skills is sufficient deterrent to not make all have the same lvl 5 skills.

Putting in arbitrary rules is silly,

"No, you can't go to lvl 5 in social and get more advanced social skills because you have lvl 5 gunnery and are therefor a mindless killing drone, n00b!"

Yeah great, yay for stereotyping

Pychian Vanervi
Solar Revenue Service
TAXU
Posted - 2004.09.02 14:58:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Miso
Pych, goon is clearly on a wind-up. No one in their right mind would really advocate a skill reset. Its just too stupid to even contemplate.Very Happy


I would like to think that, but you never know. Confused


Tolkh
Posted - 2004.09.02 15:03:00 - [22]
 

The idea with new players catching up is that they need to feel they are making a difference. If they always feel inferior and unable to contribute enough they might just give up and go play another game. Catching up is different then being on par.

Since I'm new I don't know if EVE allows new players to do that yet, I'm going to try it for a few months and see. I guess we should ask people who played six months if they feel the EVE system is good ? That would be better than asking a vet or a new player like me ;) .

Sassinak
Posted - 2004.09.02 15:04:00 - [23]
 

Hmmm

I have an idea, lets just delete teh database now shall we, so the nubs think they got summink on us now..


Unplug your keyboard pls.



PS: Ive kinda spent 18months worth of cash and time to get my character who it is now. So if summat lame like this happened, i like be kinda ****ed tbh.

ElCoCo
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
Posted - 2004.09.02 15:10:00 - [24]
 

Bad idea alert!

Carry on ppl... nothing to see here Laughing

Ulendar
M34t p0p s1ckle Manufacturing
Privateer Alliance
Posted - 2004.09.02 15:26:00 - [25]
 

Look your not getting the big picture here...

The point is, CCP are using the dangling carrot tactic to keep everyone on the payroll...

"Loooook, nice new ships and guns...shiva mmm, sweet."

Ah but you need to train up atleast one month of skills to use it i'm afraid and more then likely it will be 6 months of agent running to get a bp!

See while your training specialisationskills to be able to fly the newest collection of polygons they are getting payed. If you think they would EVER mess with the skilltraining system then you must be on dope or just daydreaming out loud. It's what keeps people playing this game basically...

Newbs wanna catch upto the old guys, old guys wanna stay ahead, everyone racing in a skilltraining marathon. Going away for a month or two? Well you could cancel your subs, but really if you pay ONLY 30 USD then you can have a really nice skill trained when you get back...what are you gonna do?!

Wake up and smell the thorns...you're here to pay money not to get a fair experience. There is no way in hell CCP are ever gonna let you use trained skillpoints to spend on something else..

To CCP skillpoints are basically as good as dollars.

Pychian Vanervi
Solar Revenue Service
TAXU
Posted - 2004.09.02 15:27:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Tolkh
The idea with new players catching up is that they need to feel they are making a difference. If they always feel inferior and unable to contribute enough they might just give up and go play another game. Catching up is different then being on par.




I have a corp mate who flies with me on a daily basis who has been in game from January, thats 8 months, so in theory he should be 6 months less able to play the game than me. This could not be further from the truth, he has pretty much all the abilities I have all be it some in different fields but still packs a punch in combat and can mine better than me.

After the first couple of months skills do not become as much an issue as when you first start. Once you get a base of ship skills and some engineering and electronics the rest just follow with which mods you decide to use.

Admitedly Eve takes time but the more time you spend in it the less of an issue skills become.

Pychian Vanervi
Solar Revenue Service
TAXU
Posted - 2004.09.02 15:33:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Ulendar


The point is, CCP are using the dangling carrot tactic to keep everyone on the payroll...

"Loooook, nice new ships and guns...shiva mmm, sweet."

To CCP skillpoints are basically as good as dollars.


You think this and you are still playing??

I play to have fun, and for £7 a month Eve is a good deal.

Surely with an opinion like this you think the players of Eve are mindless zombies handing cash over to a conman company who fleece us all with thier brainwashing game.....


Riddari
VIT
Posted - 2004.09.02 15:53:00 - [28]
 

It's not the skillpoints that make the difference.

I am currently training up a new character, it is perfectly capable of defending itself and dealing damage, as well as providing specialized services which Riddari can not.

It is not as "über" as Riddari is, it can't jump into an Apoc and blast with Large Laser turrets while running various defense modules, unleash 10 drones or whatever.

However it can launch 8 drones (10 drones = 6 more weeks), fly a battleship, use medium turrets (so it's in cruisers mostly) etc etc.

It doesn't have as many lvl 4 & 5 skills but it's got much of Riddari's skills to lvl 3's etc.

The difference is primarily in that, he has lvl 3 skills while I have lvl 4 & 5.

Overall it means it doesn't do as much damage but in EVE, every single person in a battle can count (or mining operation or agent running).

Skill point numbers DON'T REFLECT much else than your time in the game, 20m character (industry & science) can be absolutely useless in combat while a 100k character can be vital (tackling frigate).



 

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