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blankseplocked Scanning, what am I doing wrong?
 
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Sir Elliot
Posted - 2009.05.01 19:18:00 - [1]
 

When the new scanning system came out, I set out to try it.

I quickly concluded that it was a worthless time sink, and a poorly designed mini-game.

A few weeks later, I've decided to return to it, give it a second chance. I am experiencing the same issues. The probe graphics frankly cause me a headache and make using the probes more difficult.

It takes me over 20 minutes to track down a signature. Yet I hear of people being able to do it in seconds, or at most a few minutes. When I ask how they do it, I am usually given esoteric answers of, "Oh lots of practice." Yet I fail to see how lots of practice can overcome a poorly designed interface

So, scanners, I ask for your advice:

What's the info that isn't in the guides? What is the trick to tracking down sites in seconds and minutes, instead of the 20?

Horchan
Gallente
Posted - 2009.05.01 19:26:00 - [2]
 

You can change the size of all probes by shift-dragging the edge of one probe. You can move all probes by shift-moving one of the probe widgets. Always check your z-axis. 'Square Planar' works most of the time, and if it doesn't, 'Tetrahedral' will do the trick (for probe configurations). Right-click-drag moves the camera origin.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

Mehan Qualson
Posted - 2009.05.01 19:43:00 - [3]
 

I'm not uberskilled in probing, and it can take me upwards of 30 minutes (or more) to track down a 100% signal.

The folks who can do it in 5 minutes, are most likely max skilled, and have a probe ship (one with scanning bonus) rigged for extra probe strength.

My basic procedure:

Set 1 combat probe on the star, and set the range to 64au. This will show all of the possibles.

I choose my target, right click ignore all but this one.

Lauch 3 more probes, using the top down view (left mouse until looking "down"), I position the 4 probes surrounding the signal.

Continue to adjust the positions of the probes, gradually reducing the scan radius.. also I find that having all the probes on a single plane works sometimes, but I can get better accuracy if I slightly offset each probe in a different z.

I also make sure that I examine the layout of my probes and signal to insure that I have all 4 probes overlapping the signal in all dimensions.


For me, it's the adjust and rescan process that takes the most time, mostly I don't mind the time, because if I get 1 good site, its usually worth it.

Mikal Drey
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.05.01 20:21:00 - [4]
 

hey hey

just a couple of basic tips that helps with your success.

1. open the guide by greyscale : here
follow it when you scan and you will suprisingly get the same style results (except for overlapping sigs) if you always follow the procedure then you can often see where your going wrong.

2. tetrahedron/pyrmyid/box
there is a theory amongst the scanner community that you gets best results when organising your probes in a tetrahedron shape. if you hold shift you can drag your probes as group so once you get the basic shape you can select all and drag around the result.

3. UI nightmare
you need to learn the ui and whats happening. when you get a "dot" result ulcheck all your probes so and highlight them in turn. move each probe in turn without the fecked up bubbles everywhere. when the "dot" highlights then your probe sphere is covering it. uncheck and move the next probe, rinse, repeat. when your in position you can reconnect to all and scan.

3. avoid fustration
setup right : get a cov ops, get rigged, get skills. all will help and will certainly help with the lower strength signals.
to also help with your fustration. scan with your deep space first set to 256Au and check the system for signatures (use filters) if theres a hit you want to scan for (im assuming sigs/anomolies) then switch. if your not skilled for deep space probes just scan and if your not having much luck just move system and blow it off. (probably a low strength sig)

hope that helps in some way :)


Shattered Crystal - 60 day GTC
Battle Clinic - 60 Day GTC

Miranda Cho
Caldari
The First Church of the Azure Carrot
Posted - 2009.05.01 20:24:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Miranda Cho on 02/05/2009 00:31:51
I start off with a probe set to cover the entire system launched from Planet I if the system's small enough, or multiple probes set out to cover each planet if it's too big for one probe. Use Core probes, not Combat probes, just in case you were. Sites spawn USUALLY within 4au of a planet, sometimes a bit more, so I'd advise punching 8au probes at them just to make sure. Say you end up with three contacts, at 3, 4, and 6 au. Depending on your skills, probe radius, and chance, that range may be very inaccurate, but you can narrow it down somewhat. I step the range down a ways, in that case first to 4au. That may or may not cut off some of the results that are outside of 4au. If I still have results, I'll try a 2au just to see if the deviation was off in that direction. If that shows up a hit, I stick with 2, otherwise I go back to 4.

At that point I punch three more probes and set them up in a tetrahedron around the point the first probe was originally. Use the overlap of the spheres to determine where the probes belong, you want them in the corners of the greatest overlap, which should form a curved-side tetrahedron. Make sure you check the vertical axis, you want things as centered as possible. Additionally, make sure you check the scan ID (THANK YOU, Apocrypha 1.1!) beforehand so you can keep track of the sig. I don't like ignoring sigs, because seeing multiple ones can serve as a hint for where to look for your next target if you remember it. When you scan, you'll at LEAST get one hit on that sig, possible multiple hits if it's picked up separately by a few probes. If you have multiple hits, hold shift and drag the whole tetrahedron in the direction of the best signal strength. If you only have one hit, you either only have it on one probe in which case you also need to drag the probes towards it, or you'll have an overlapping fix from multiple probes, which will be either a single dot, a red ring, or what's supposed to be two dots, but is currently bugged and annoying. A red ring means you don't have a great fix on it yet, but you know it's somewhere around the edges of the ring. Move the probes over to get a better look at that area til you lock it down to a dot. If you have two sigs with the same ID and the same strength, you're supposed to have two dots, but right now it's bugged so you've got two dots in the same place. You'll just have to wiggle around and experiment til it resolves into one dot.

Once you have a single dot, you're on the home stretch. Center your tetrahedron around it and scan again to get the best hit you can, then hold shift again and drag the edge of your probe globe inwards; that'll change the range of all the probes at once. Change the range down one notch, then reposition them in a tetrahedron around the dot. When you scan again, the dot may have moved due to deviation, in which case you need to recenter the probes and then drop the range again, or you may be back to one of the earlier fuzzy results, but with a closer idea where the actual bastard is. Work the probes around until you get a dot again and then drop the range down and scan. Rinse and repeat until the sig strength hits 100% and you've got a nice, warpable green dot.

It sounds more complex than it is, with a little practice you should be doing it without much trouble. I do quite a lot of scouting, and for most sigs I need about 2-4 minutes to narrow it down. The very smallest sigs give me a bit of trouble with my skills, simply because .25 au probes at the widest tetrahedron aren't quite good enough so I have to move them in, but it's still doable.

As has been mentioned, this is all with a scan-bonused frigate or covops, 2 Gravity Capacitor Upgrade Is (cheap riggings), and moderate scan skills. You can still do it with lower skills and/or an unbonused ship, but you'll have to go to shorter-ranged probes and may not be able to scan all sites down. Aaaand 4000-character limit, coming right up.

Hope this helps!

Dedalus77
The Logistical Nightmare
Posted - 2009.05.01 20:25:00 - [6]
 

Step 1: Launch Probes and set them to 32/16/or 8 AU depending on the size of the system.
Step 2: Drag Probe 1 up and Drag Probe 2 down such that the remaining probes are between them.
Step 3: Drag Probe 3 Right and Probe 4 Left in the same manner.

You now have the 4 probes arranged in a "box" such that the bubbles of all 4 probes overlap in the middle.

Step 4: Analyze
Step 5: Find the highest signal strength hit for which you have a dot (either red or yellow)
Step 6: Reduce scan range and position probes in the same formation around the signal such that the signal is in the center. REMEMBER - you are in 3D space, drag the camera around to make sure you really are covering the signal and it doesn't just look like you are covering the signal.
Step 7: Analyze
Step 8: Repeat steps 5-7 until you have a 100% hit

K'uata Sayus
Posted - 2009.05.01 20:52:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: K''uata Sayus on 01/05/2009 20:52:52
Originally by: Dedalus77
Step 1: Launch Probes and set them to 32/16/or 8 AU depending on the size of the system.
Step 2: Drag Probe 1 up and Drag Probe 2 down such that the remaining probes are between them.
Step 3: Drag Probe 3 Right and Probe 4 Left in the same manner.

You now have the 4 probes arranged in a "box" such that the bubbles of all 4 probes overlap in the middle.

Step 4: Analyze
Step 5: Find the highest signal strength hit for which you have a dot (either red or yellow)
Step 6: Reduce scan range and position probes in the same formation around the signal such that the signal is in the center. REMEMBER - you are in 3D space, drag the camera around to make sure you really are covering the signal and it doesn't just look like you are covering the signal.
Step 7: Analyze
Step 8: Repeat steps 5-7 until you have a 100% hit


^^This.

I use an almost identical procedure, and launch 4 probes in quick succession, then cloak. The four probes appear as one initially, but each time you move the first probe(by dragging an arrow), you get a new probe, until you can clearly see four.

Irdia Freelancer
Posted - 2009.05.01 23:47:00 - [8]
 

More probes also improve results.

Sure if your searching for an easy-to-find sig then fine, 4 is plenty. but if its a tough sig then more probes will help right up to your max number of probes.

I was searching for a sig 2 days back and almost got up to 50% strength on a grav site. I dont know what it was. skill 3/5 gives +30% sig strength. Ship bonus +20% (frig 4/5). 5% sisters launcher, 2x 10% rigs. 4x probes in a pyramid shape and sig got up to 48.8% with all 4 probes within 4 bil km in pyramid shape around spot.

That site is an example that there is still plenty that need close to max skills to find.

Alliance mate had 8 probes out other day to locate a hard to find site (not sure if was rigged cov ops or if had sisters launcher).

Once you have the location of the site pinned to < 0.1 AU and not pinning it, toss all your 0.25 probes all around it.

Miranda Cho
Caldari
The First Church of the Azure Carrot
Posted - 2009.05.02 00:29:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Miranda Cho on 02/05/2009 00:31:01
The way that works is that it uses the four probes that will generate the best signature, which is dependent on both range to the contact and the angle between the probes. The greater the total angles the better, if memory serves. So more probes don't automatically translate into a better hit, but they let you fudge the geometry by just throwing more points at it. A proper, precise tetrahedron can get just as good a hit, but it requires more work and practice and care to get it right, so from a time perspective, probe-spamming can help.

Megan Aven
Amarr
Posted - 2009.05.02 01:05:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Megan Aven on 02/05/2009 01:07:22
When I started scanning things it was very frustrating. But I got better and better at it. And now it takes on average about 5 mins to locate a signal. Sometimes a bit more if the signal is weak.

Few things I'd like to add (don't know if it has been said already - haven't read every post here).

- Probes are scanning the range of signature from the probe center. This means if you get a big red sphere as a signal (only 1 probe is getting signal) the site is somewhere on the surface of that red sphere. Not somewhere inside of the sphere. If you get the red circle (2 probes are getting signal) it means the site is somewhere on the line of that circle. There are of course small deviations as the signal is not very strong.

- Don't rush with lowering scan range on probes. Sometimes I rather do 2-3 scans with the same AU range and do a little fine repositioning before lowering scan range. If you rush, you will lose signal and it will just take longer.

- The probe pointers which you use to reposition probes are sometimes difficult to see (when they go below the solar system map - if you look at it from side). When that happens just turn the camera around for 180 and reposition probes from "bottom".

- Shift + mouse affects all 4 probes at once.

Rannoc
Life Eternal
Bedlam Alliance
Posted - 2009.05.02 16:39:00 - [11]
 

Something I found while playing with shapes. I used to use the Tetrahedral all the time and would need to go all the way down to 0.25 au to get a "warp to" 100%. Then I tried adding another point to make an Octahedron and started getting "warp to" 100% at 0.5 au. I also noticed a big decrease in "ghost" signals with this shape.

--R


 

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