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FDIC Agent
Posted - 2009.05.01 02:13:00 - [1]
 

I can't seem to find a similar topic which I am sure one exist but here goes.

Can you use alts in noob corps in the noob ships, to constintly warp to a pos to cause it to eventually run out of ammo? Not just one toon, but can they use several over the course of hours to make a pos burn ammo?

Also, they are not exploring because they keep coming back over, and over...

This legal game play?

Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Eve Industrial Corp
Posted - 2009.05.01 02:33:00 - [2]
 

Probably an exploit/griefing most definately a waste of time though.

Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2009.05.01 04:10:00 - [3]
 

Probably not unless its a macro.

Baka Lakadaka
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.05.01 05:58:00 - [4]
 

Based on a tangentially related question I once asked a GM and got an answer for:

If you use newbie characters and recycle them to avoid penalties or game mechanics then it's an exploit.

I'm not sure if you're actually avoiding penalties here, but if your security status was then reduced, you technically can't recycle the characters, that would be an exploit.


Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2009.05.01 09:36:00 - [5]
 

What if they got laser turrets? YARRRR!!

Braaage
Ministry of Craft
Posted - 2009.05.01 09:40:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Shintai
What if they got laser turrets? YARRRR!!


Yup couple of small lasers and a webber will sort these out, the small lasers will lock quicker than any of the big guns so they shouldn't even fire.

Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
Posted - 2009.05.01 09:47:00 - [7]
 

Considering how quickly they die, it would take possibly days if not weeks to run a POS out of ammo with one.

As above you can't keep recycling / using new characters, but it is unlikely to be an exploit if they are using the same one. It's more of a waste of time for them than it is a waste of ammo for you.

Word on the grapevine is that there is possibly some other bug using a POS's ammo at downtime, can't verify that myself.

Mitch Taylor
Dark-Rising
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2009.05.01 10:34:00 - [8]
 

We had a pos attacked in this way a long time ago, we worked out with the current ammo and rof would have taken them 13 days to run it dry ;)

Sir Elliot
Posted - 2009.05.01 14:53:00 - [9]
 

That's like sending troops into an army of killer robots until their kill-counter reaches 9,999,999,999 and the robots shut down.

FDIC Agent
Posted - 2009.05.01 14:54:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Braaage
Originally by: Shintai
What if they got laser turrets? YARRRR!!


Yup couple of small lasers and a webber will sort these out, the small lasers will lock quicker than any of the big guns so they shouldn't even fire.


They come with 5-10 noob ships at a time and stay far out of web range, like 150-175km or further so the big guns shoot them. And about that whole 13 days straight before they run out of ammo... that is completely far fetched and unrealistic pos defense.

I put up a small beam and pulse lasor but when they come at it with a dozen or so alts, it takes a looong time before they are all killed, and most likely by the time a couple are popped, they are are already back with more noob ships from the station in system.

Katarlia Simov
Minmatar
Cowboys From Hell
Posted - 2009.05.01 15:30:00 - [11]
 

I think its a legitimate tactic, but not exactly the wisest one.

I mean ammo isn't really expensive. At best this kind of attack will be an inconvenience.

Wardo21
Posted - 2009.05.01 15:34:00 - [12]
 

I would suggest "Starbase Defense Management 4" if you haven't learned it already.

Or a "frig swatting" ship, still capable of defending against any pvp ships they might bring to the party. The noob ships are likely the standard issue beginner ships and unlikely to harm a reasonably tanked BC.

Sentry drones, or drones from a domi with some drone modules might also be a workable pest control solution. Sniper Ferox with some painters. Other races ships with range bonuses (none come to mind, but I fly Caldari and don't know the other races well) might also work.

If more PVP quality ships show up, head for the shield and take over the guns.

If they are over 150km, setup some bookmarks in their area, and then back at (or just beyond the other side of) your tower. Warp into the noobs, kill some and warp away if needed.

Make a supply run and put extra ammo on site. Later reload (not resupply) runs won't need to have the ammo with them (fly a combat ship over instead of an indy) but will need reasonable sized holds to get the ammo from storage out to the guns. Take GSC and anchor them inside the shield, but closer to the gun positions...

There are alternatives, but unfortunately these all require some level of interaction with your time and materials wasted to defend against toons hiding in the noob corps.

FDIC Agent
Posted - 2009.05.01 15:50:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Wardo21
I would suggest "Starbase Defense Management 4" if you haven't learned it already.

Or a "frig swatting" ship, still capable of defending against any pvp ships they might bring to the party. The noob ships are likely the standard issue beginner ships and unlikely to harm a reasonably tanked BC.

Sentry drones, or drones from a domi with some drone modules might also be a workable pest control solution. Sniper Ferox with some painters. Other races ships with range bonuses (none come to mind, but I fly Caldari and don't know the other races well) might also work.

If more PVP quality ships show up, head for the shield and take over the guns.

If they are over 150km, setup some bookmarks in their area, and then back at (or just beyond the other side of) your tower. Warp into the noobs, kill some and warp away if needed.

Make a supply run and put extra ammo on site. Later reload (not resupply) runs won't need to have the ammo with them (fly a combat ship over instead of an indy) but will need reasonable sized holds to get the ammo from storage out to the guns. Take GSC and anchor them inside the shield, but closer to the gun positions...

There are alternatives, but unfortunately these all require some level of interaction with your time and materials wasted to defend against toons hiding in the noob corps.


They don't noob ship spam when there are people at the pos...

Pwett
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
Posted - 2009.05.01 18:29:00 - [14]
 

You can always set the aggression flag, makes them get in range, then you can anchor some warp disruptors and just hold them there forever.

Just turn off the aggression flag if you want ever repair the shields :)

Dear Abby
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2009.05.01 18:43:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Katarlia Simov
I think its a legitimate tactic, but not exactly the wisest one.

I mean ammo isn't really expensive. At best this kind of attack will be an inconvenience.




Well it is a legitimate tactic if they are using ships they paid for - were they using free noob ships that would be an exploit. As long as they have something at risk and are not using a flaw in game it is all good, also you might want to track POS ammo since it has been disappearing and is a known issue it may not be someone draining your guns.

MarieFrance Tessier
Posted - 2009.05.01 20:15:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Dear Abby
Originally by: Katarlia Simov
I think its a legitimate tactic, but not exactly the wisest one.

I mean ammo isn't really expensive. At best this kind of attack will be an inconvenience.




Well it is a legitimate tactic if they are using ships they paid for - were they using free noob ships that would be an exploit. As long as they have something at risk and are not using a flaw in game it is all good, also you might want to track POS ammo since it has been disappearing and is a known issue it may not be someone draining your guns.


But they are risking one ship and a DCI! :D

FDIC Agent
Posted - 2009.05.01 20:49:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Dear Abby
Originally by: Katarlia Simov
I think its a legitimate tactic, but not exactly the wisest one.

I mean ammo isn't really expensive. At best this kind of attack will be an inconvenience.




Well it is a legitimate tactic if they are using ships they paid for - were they using free noob ships that would be an exploit. As long as they have something at risk and are not using a flaw in game it is all good, also you might want to track POS ammo since it has been disappearing and is a known issue it may not be someone draining your guns.


Its no bug, I have tons of noob ship kills from the pos.

CCP would you please give some input here?

Mortifiyr
Posted - 2009.05.01 22:30:00 - [18]
 

ahhh, wouldn't it be great if we found out the newb ships were not the same people over and over again, then suddenly you got attacked by 1,000 newb ships.

Sorry FDIC, I just couldn't stop thinking about that. Laughing

Asarah
First Star To The Right
Posted - 2009.05.02 00:26:00 - [19]
 

Probably not a 'sploit, but if you have to resort to this kind of tactic, are you really gonna be able to field the firepower to actually bring down the tower?

FDIC Agent
Posted - 2009.05.02 04:48:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: FDIC Agent on 02/05/2009 04:49:26
Welp, they did hours of noob ships and rane the large and medium guns out of ammo, brought in some ships and incaped the large pos. Thanks CCP. I think I will wait for the POS revamp (whenever that happens in the next 10 years) before I anchor another one.

I highly recommend everyone useing this tactic on all pos's from now on. Why risk ships when you can risk nothing. Rolling Eyes

JonShannow
Caldari
Regante
Posted - 2009.05.02 08:27:00 - [21]
 

Did you petition it, did you even try putting up laser batteries ?

FDIC Agent
Posted - 2009.05.02 08:43:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: JonShannow
Did you petition it, did you even try putting up laser batteries ?


I petitioned it but no reply from CCP yet.

Laser batteries were put up, but when it is a limitless supply of noob ships and when they are in groups there is really no hope.

I even set the pos up where it would not shoot unless they had negative standings. But all they would do is warp in close, shoot a module then warp off, warp back in at range out of the guns that can track them.

Wonder when CCP is going to revamp the POS part of the game already...

JonShannow
Caldari
Regante
Posted - 2009.05.02 09:00:00 - [23]
 

I would keep up the petitions, in the mean time, fit lots of lasers, maybe even swap the tower for an amarr, assuming its not one ?

I take it this is happening in low sec or the alts would getting concorded due to sec loss.

Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
Posted - 2009.05.02 09:42:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: FDIC Agent
Edited by: FDIC Agent on 02/05/2009 04:49:26
Welp, they did hours of noob ships and rane the large and medium guns out of ammo, brought in some ships and incaped the large pos. Thanks CCP. I think I will wait for the POS revamp (whenever that happens in the next 10 years) before I anchor another one.

I highly recommend everyone useing this tactic on all pos's from now on. Why risk ships when you can risk nothing. Rolling Eyes


Continuous shooting of a POS battery should take at least a few days to empty. Given that the ships will die rather quickly, it should take weeks to empty a POS filled properly.

'out of range' of guns that can track them, is not possible, they should be able to kill a n00b ship anywhere on grid. I've successfully killed ships 3,000km away using POS guns. They only 'thought' they would be out of range.

Dear Abby
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2009.05.02 10:05:00 - [25]
 

old forum thread on this topic linky

FDIC Agent
Posted - 2009.05.02 11:11:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Dear Abby
old forum thread on this topic linky


Well it sortive talkes about noob ships for a bit. But I want to know if using alts w/ noob ships to cause pos's to run out of ammo is a legitimate game tactic or if it is considered griefing/exploit.

Oh and it was a deathstar pos in low sec, copied it from a PL pos guarding a Dispo moon in low sec.

I mean when dozens of noob ships on alts swarm your tower and when ammo from the large guns and medium guns run out and like magic the alts log out and the bs gang logs in and they claim its just a coincidence that they happen to be striking the tower at the same time noob ships attacked moments before...

So what kind of guns shoot non-stop without running out of ammo for days on end do you speak of? And I already tried anchoring lasor batteries all over it and that didn't kill the noob ships fast enough before the rest of the guns started shooting them.

The system is just broken severly. Sad

Kalpaks II
Posted - 2009.05.02 12:07:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: FDIC Agent
Originally by: Dear Abby
old forum thread on this topic linky


Well it sortive talkes about noob ships for a bit. But I want to know if using alts w/ noob ships to cause pos's to run out of ammo is a legitimate game tactic or if it is considered griefing/exploit.

Oh and it was a deathstar pos in low sec, copied it from a PL pos guarding a Dispo moon in low sec.

I mean when dozens of noob ships on alts swarm your tower and when ammo from the large guns and medium guns run out and like magic the alts log out and the bs gang logs in and they claim its just a coincidence that they happen to be striking the tower at the same time noob ships attacked moments before...

So what kind of guns shoot non-stop without running out of ammo for days on end do you speak of? And I already tried anchoring lasor batteries all over it and that didn't kill the noob ships fast enough before the rest of the guns started shooting them.

The system is just broken severly. Sad


This is not an exploit! End of story!

Power Sauce
Kenzzoku
Posted - 2009.05.02 12:36:00 - [28]
 

There is actually a previous case where a player was told to stop using noob ships to run a pos out of ammo. He was sacrificing noob ships constantly.

If they were not being hit that is a tracking/pos configuration issue and not an exploit. However, taking zero risk with free sacrificial noob ships is an exploit.

File a petition under exploits. Negative or no response then request that the petition be escalated.

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.05.02 15:22:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Power Sauce
There is actually a previous case where a player was told to stop using noob ships to run a pos out of ammo. He was sacrificing noob ships constantly.

If they were not being hit that is a tracking/pos configuration issue and not an exploit. However, taking zero risk with free sacrificial noob ships is an exploit.

File a petition under exploits. Negative or no response then request that the petition be escalated.


Wow, thought we were the only one having to deal with alts in starter corps using noob ships to bleed pos ammo.

Except when we set our pos to only shoot based on standings lower than 0.0 or aggression, they soon realized that the pos would not shoot them unless the noob alts shot back.

Sooo, they had a bunch of carriers sit on the station in system, assign the fighters to the alts and had the alts take out all the stuff that the fighters could hit. Pretty much the neuts, large guns, disruptors, webs, stuff like that. All in total safety. Then when there was nothing left but the little crap to shoot, they brought in the dreads.

I was under the impression that you could not do this with fighters as of a long time ago but I guess so.

Now if this is not an exploit of alts in starter corps w/ starter ships... Then I suggest that this tactic be used in all low sec POS seiges.

And yes, the petition is in.

ingenting
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2009.05.03 12:14:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: FDIC Agent
Edited by: FDIC Agent on 02/05/2009 04:49:26
Welp, they did hours of noob ships and rane the large and medium guns out of ammo, brought in some ships and incaped the large pos. Thanks CCP. I think I will wait for the POS revamp (whenever that happens in the next 10 years) before I anchor another one.

I highly recommend everyone useing this tactic on all pos's from now on. Why risk ships when you can risk nothing. Rolling Eyes
your own damn fault for not getting more ammo, noob. stop whining


 

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