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xerroth
Posted - 2009.04.26 20:41:00 - [1]
 

I was/am a typical "carebear" player, have played eve for a year or so in total, quit so many times due to boredom doing missions, mining...I got a chat invite from a recruiter from my current corp.
In 4 days have been in on 47 kills, got the final blow on a few (none of this due to any pvp skills, just exellent FCing), and much to my suprise it is a lot of fun.
My corp, no skill pts requirement, free cruiser to practice pvp in (for 3 months) daily cruiser fleet ops.
Funniest thing is watching HAC , recon fleets flee in terror from the might of a dozen T1 cruiser(base T1 fittings) as you wander through 0.0...damn hilarious..
I say give pvp a go... its fun.....

Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
Posted - 2009.04.26 20:43:00 - [2]
 

This is my biggest pet peeve, I guess. There's no mechanic that really encourages players to go out and experience the game. New players.

Faction warfare was meant to, I think. But I don't know if it worked or not. I think it did more to encourage older players to create alts, hahahah ...

Good to see another on the ranks. PvP is a blast, no doubt about it.

AkRoYeR
Amarr
Posted - 2009.04.26 20:46:00 - [3]
 

It's all fun and games until you do major fleet ops. Than you are a little blue dot on a screen with other blue dots watching red dots slowly dissapear. /yawn

Small gang PvP is where the fun is at. Keep doing it!

Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
Posted - 2009.04.26 21:04:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
There's no mechanic that really encourages players to go out and experience the game. New players.



Agreed.

The big issues are that new players think more sp = god mode and that pvp requires that perfect ship and perfect fittings. And that fear of getting popped.

Almost needs a tutorial mission where players intentially get themselves on one side or another of a killmail.

Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
Posted - 2009.04.26 21:13:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Crackzilla
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
There's no mechanic that really encourages players to go out and experience the game. New players.



Agreed.

The big issues are that new players think more sp = god mode and that pvp requires that perfect ship and perfect fittings. And that fear of getting popped.

Almost needs a tutorial mission where players intentially get themselves on one side or another of a killmail.



That's actually a pretty great idea.

iudex
Posted - 2009.04.26 21:26:00 - [6]
 

The problem is if you carebear for years your skillpoints grow, your wallet and your ego. After a while your ego is too big to fit in a small and cheap fitted t1 ship. You want to bring the big heavy and effective stuff. When you then lose it due lack of pvp skills and inappropriate pvp fitting you are frustrated and go back carebearing for another 2 years, with the plan to return when you have even more skills and isk.

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2009.04.26 21:30:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: AkRoYeR
It's all fun and games until you do major fleet ops. Than you are a little blue dot on a screen with other blue dots watching red dots slowly dissapear. /yawn

Small gang PvP is where the fun is at. Keep doing it!

Being a little blue dot have been some of the best times I've had in EVE. Perhaps you were just a small orange dot or something?

R4d1o4ct1v3
Unbound Enterprises
Posted - 2009.04.26 21:35:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: AkRoYeR
It's all fun and games until you do major fleet ops. Than you are a little blue dot on a screen with other blue dots watching red dots slowly dissapear. /yawn

Small gang PvP is where the fun is at. Keep doing it!

Being a little blue dot have been some of the best times I've had in EVE. Perhaps you were just a small orange dot or something?

Yea, same here. I always loved being one of the blue dots, fighting a bunch of red dots.
But then again, being a big part of a small group was always fun to.

Plutonian
Gallente
Intransigent
Posted - 2009.04.26 22:00:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Crackzilla
Almost needs a tutorial mission where players intentially get themselves on one side or another of a killmail.


Back in '06 I made an alt for the sole purpose of dying in bubbles. Just go around dying over and over. I was looking for a way to control my adrenalin surge when faced with PvP. Very Happy

Would also run an Atron w/MWD and no weapons, get fleets to chase me in 0.0, and see how long I could survive. A training ground for evasive maneuvers. Was a lot of fun, and taught lessons more effectively than any tutorial.

Kale Kold
Mindless Griefing
Posted - 2009.04.26 22:01:00 - [10]
 

This game is completely geared around PvP, EVE is essentially a PvP game, yet so few actually do it. Crazy!

TraininVain
Posted - 2009.04.26 22:12:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: TraininVain on 26/04/2009 22:21:15
Edited by: TraininVain on 26/04/2009 22:18:16
Welcome to the fun stuff Very Happy

Quote:
The problem is if you carebear for years your skillpoints grow, your wallet and your ego. After a while your ego is too big to fit in a small and cheap fitted t1 ship. You want to bring the big heavy and effective stuff. When you then lose it due lack of pvp skills and inappropriate pvp fitting you are frustrated and go back carebearing for another 2 years, with the plan to return when you have even more skills and isk.


You're dead right.

I think partly it's just the structure of MMOs generally. You've got this progress quest kinda progression through levels and areas in most MMOs I've played.

If you stick to missions or whatever it's Level 1 missions then Level 2 missions then Level 3 missions. It probably feels like a similar set-up.

Probably the way missions work has a lot to do with it. If more PvE was like wormholes maybe it'd be an easier transfer.

Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
Posted - 2009.04.26 22:25:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: TraininVain
If you stick to missions or whatever it's Level 1 missions then Level 2 missions then Level 3 missions. It probably feels like a similar set-up.



Yep. Might be better just to remove the level 1 - 4 labels, make some stuff random, and put it all in wormholes. So some noobs get sent into a level 5 mission, they'll learn fast to leave what they can't handle.

So then there isn't any clear progression. Empire isk making is mostly trading, mining, or manufacturing.


CHAOS100
The Ankou
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.04.26 22:33:00 - [13]
 

I think all new players should automatically start in faction warfare, and must stay in for a few days whether or not they actually PVP, so that they are encouraged to go and see wtf it is about. After that they can leave and go about their things. More likely than not they will probably enjoy it.

Right now the tutorial is 100% carebear. Hence new players learn how to do carebear/ NPC activities and don't experience the PVP aspect, because they haven't been introduced to it. With a game like eve it is initially daunting at all the choices and how much you can do, so PVP is not going to be on the front of people's mind especially after just starting and wanting to try other stuff.

Bestofworst
Gallente
Posted - 2009.04.26 22:37:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Crackzilla
Originally by: TraininVain
If you stick to missions or whatever it's Level 1 missions then Level 2 missions then Level 3 missions. It probably feels like a similar set-up.



Yep. Might be better just to remove the level 1 - 4 labels, make some stuff random, and put it all in wormholes. So some noobs get sent into a level 5 mission, they'll learn fast to leave what they can't handle.

So then there isn't any clear progression. Empire isk making is mostly trading, mining, or manufacturing.


Need a ton of generic Wormhole missions that send you in to kill X number of Y size of Drones or get Z item. I also think that people don't want to go into low-sec where there is no money to be made to even come close to replace your losses that you take learning low-sec. With stuff like Rattings, especially ratting techniques such as chaining (which I've yet to do), it can be hard to get into when you have pirates scanning down specifically for that type of player.

I also see that a lot of pirates take pride in killing newer players but turn tail at a slightly formidable fleet almost all the time. Hell, we had a spy in our fleet and the second someone mentioned killing pirates the scout reported the pirates running for their lives.

There definately needs to be a tutorial that has you lose your best ship that you had at the time, and then have missions aimed at how to go about rebuilding your assets from scratch.

(I think I just typed a meaningless post here Sad)

Bestofworst
Gallente
Posted - 2009.04.26 22:38:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: CHAOS100
I think all new players should automatically start in faction warfare, and must stay in for a few days whether or not they actually PVP, so that they are encouraged to go and see wtf it is about. After that they can leave and go about their things. More likely than not they will probably enjoy it.

Right now the tutorial is 100% carebear. Hence new players learn how to do carebear/ NPC activities and don't experience the PVP aspect, because they haven't been introduced to it. With a game like eve it is initially daunting at all the choices and how much you can do, so PVP is not going to be on the front of people's mind especially after just starting and wanting to try other stuff.
(Didn't see this post) I wouldn't say have them start out in faction warfare, but have one of the combat tutorial missions offer to put you into Faction Warfare and let you do missions.

I think of the starter tutorial missions as a way to learn how to make ISK and do the bare minimum of what is possible in Eve.

CCP Mitnal


C C P
Posted - 2009.04.27 02:46:00 - [16]
 

My experience is frighteningly similar to the OP. Having spent a long time in empire space, the switch to PVP just opens up so much of EVE that it is frankly another game.

If you're thinking of going the PVP route, I'd personally suggest you attempt from the start as the cost of dying is much lower than older characters. Either that or ensure you have a decent bank balance and another source of income.

It's great to hear that you're enjoying PVP and all credit goes to the recruiter that convoed you.

But Sects
Posted - 2009.04.27 03:00:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: CCP Mitnal
My experience is frighteningly similar to the OP. Having spent a long time in empire space, the switch to PVP just opens up so much of EVE that it is frankly another game.

If you're thinking of going the PVP route, I'd personally suggest you attempt from the start as the cost of dying is much lower than older characters. Either that or ensure you have a decent bank balance and another source of income.

It's great to hear that you're enjoying PVP and all credit goes to the recruiter that convoed you.


Where do you pvp most of the time?

I'd like to kill you repeatedly for banning me more than a few times.

Regards,
But Sects

Bestofworst
Gallente
Posted - 2009.04.27 03:02:00 - [18]
 

Yup, my first actual PvP experience was in a Minmatar FW fleet in a Thorax, funnest time of my life and got into 3 battles with 10+ kills and got final blows on 5 of them. Best day ever, still sitting over 1.4 Bill dmg in ISK done on my KB (slight KB ***** here, but only for the stats)

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.04.27 03:46:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: But Sects
Where do you pvp most of the time?

I'd like to kill you repeatedly for banning me more than a few times.

Regards,
But Sects
Looks like he PVPs on the forum then, apparently Laughing

AllUrIskRBelongtoMee
Posted - 2009.04.27 03:51:00 - [20]
 



I've got a friend that has been a carebear way to long. He used to like competing in another game that was an FPS. He wasn't as bloodthirsty as I but he still liked his piece of the action and acclaim. Yet in eve he is terrified of taking even a cruiser out to pvp in.

Hes gone a few times but has lost a ship or nearly lost it each time. Hes also someone who hordes stuff so that doesn't work out. Its been a real ***** to get him out and i think hes finally going to step up soon.

The way I have seen the game is that the worst part of pvp is the ship and pod loss. If you can't afford to lose them constantly then you wont have much fun in pvp if you get popped. So you always need some way to bring in the isk while you go out and pvp and hopefully you spend more time pvping then making isk.


The funny thing was someone said they had a big ego because they had a lot of SP and isk yet no pvp experience. Nothing deflates an ego faster then realizing that it was based on smoke and mirrors and that SP does NOT equal actual skill. Of course people need to realize that more isk and SP are not the answers to being completely skill less in pvp. Thinking that way just makes it worse as you end up shying from pvp until an unknown date and tiem when you think you are finally "ready". all to get owned again...probably by a person a year younger then yourself.


PVP, solo,small gang, big gang, massive fleet, its all different styles. Doesn't mean one is better then the other, it just means you have different ways to "pew pew". Find one that fits you but make sure it doesn't fit you because it means you have a lower chance of being killed. Try each type that is available to you, find what you like regardless of your chances of living and have fun with it.

be a blue square, orange, redblinky, whatever....give it a shot and have fun. stop waiting for 3 years to go by where you still won't have caught up to those that were here 3 years before you started. SP and isk mean nothing if you aren't having fun with it.

Clair Bear
Ursine Research and Production
Posted - 2009.04.27 04:09:00 - [21]
 


Pointless T1 blobfare sure is fun, but at the end of the day all you're hoping for is some ganks. You gain nothing but killmails -- no territory, no ISK, nothing bit a bit of epeen from being on killmails with a dozen or so of your closest friends.

It's combat for the sake of combat. Nothing lost (except a bit of respawn time), nothing gained. Not vastly different from WoW or counterstrike, really.

Kaven Kantrix
Two Brothers Mining Corp.
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.04.27 04:11:00 - [22]
 

I am pretty sure the reason most carebears dont pvp is because it is not profitable like all the other carebear activities.

Carebear mentality is constantly building up your stuff, your character, your skills, whatever, But pvp is basically all about the "experience". Its like the difference between going to see a movie or buying a DVD. You see the movie and it is an experience. But you buy the DVD and you have something more than just the memory of it.

If they added some sort financial benefit for pvping, then "carebears" would do it. (Of course, I am totally down with it being only for the "winners" of any particular pvp fight. Carebears are patient and willing to take some risks as long as the reward is equal. Getting a few modules and a little salvage possibly does not equal the loss of their entire ship and possible pod.)

Note: This applies to "Fun" pvp. I got nothing for POS warfare or even large fleet ops. But at least some people would pvp more (myself included) if there was good money in it.

Bestofworst
Gallente
Posted - 2009.04.27 04:13:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Clair Bear

Pointless T1 blobfare sure is fun, but at the end of the day all you're hoping for is some ganks. You gain nothing but killmails -- no territory, no ISK, nothing bit a bit of epeen from being on killmails with a dozen or so of your closest friends.

It's combat for the sake of combat. Nothing lost (except a bit of respawn time), nothing gained. Not vastly different from WoW or counterstrike, really.
Not much is ever gained from video gaming, aside from pixels and such.

Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
Posted - 2009.04.27 04:18:00 - [24]
 

I've always preferred to fight for the sake of something, instead of just to fight. Defending territory, corporate ops, that kind of thing.

That said, I've got an alt who's only job is to die. Cheap, 20k frigs and suicide attacks in losec that have NEVER been successful. There is some fun in it, no doubt.

Clair Bear
Ursine Research and Production
Posted - 2009.04.27 04:30:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Bestofworst
Not much is ever gained from video gaming, aside from pixels and such.


Fatal1ty or however that guy spells his name would disagree with you. Also, in this game (and other MMOs where in-game assets can be easily linked to RL value) there is something to be gained and lost aside from pixels.

If you chain fail you pay more. See the first person to implode not one but two T3 cruisers as a glaring example.

Crevo Helion
Minmatar
Lutinari Syndicate
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.04.27 04:33:00 - [26]
 

I started out knowing that pvp was what I wanted to do, but almost got stuck in the 'missioning until I get enough isk...till I get enough sp...till I get a better ship...' mentality. Luckily I just smacked myself and took a rifter into low-sec, died, rinsed and repeated, until I had the awareness that dying in this game means nothing!

The excitement of using your wits and guts to possibly destroy another person's ship/ego is where it's at. The sooner you say 'to hell with it' the better.

I leave the station for pvp every time thinking 'I'll probably lose my ship, I'm gonna do everything I can to destroy their ship before mine.' Oh, and use every loss as a learning experience Cool.

OOH YEAA
The Scope
Posted - 2009.04.27 06:07:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: But Sects
Where do you pvp most of the time?

I'd like to kill you repeatedly for banning me more than a few times.

Regards,
But Sects


This.

I now have a goal in life.

Kirzath
Genos Occidere
Posted - 2009.04.27 06:24:00 - [28]
 

I remember my first PVP experience. 5-6 of us from the Imperial Academy in T1 ships, and we went straight into lowsec. We got owned on the first engagement (we tried to take on a few battleships in our fleet of Punishers and a Harbinger), but it was a blast. Best 2M ever spent, and it set the ball rolling.

To the PVE'ers thinking about PVPing: don't procrastinate! Grab a few friends and go roam Providence for much lols today! The best part is when the ratters cry in local for help YARRRR!!

SellStuff Hunny
Posted - 2009.04.27 06:32:00 - [29]
 

EVE needs couple things from warhammer, for example:
- kill x pod pilots from Y faction (maby flying z ship)

- on accepting mission you get rights (no concordoken) to kill some other mission runner (he gets info about this), another mission runner should be selected by.. LP earned? faction missions completed? anything other thats suitable.

none of these missions should be blocking, in a sense that you cannot take any more missions from that agent, but it would be a damn good introduction into pvp for everyone from lvl1 frigate action up to lvl5 carrier hugging.

Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
Posted - 2009.04.27 06:39:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: SellStuff Hunny
EVE needs couple things from warhammer, for example:
- kill x pod pilots from Y faction (maby flying z ship)

- on accepting mission you get rights (no concordoken) to kill some other mission runner (he gets info about this), another mission runner should be selected by.. LP earned? faction missions completed? anything other thats suitable.

none of these missions should be blocking, in a sense that you cannot take any more missions from that agent, but it would be a damn good introduction into pvp for everyone from lvl1 frigate action up to lvl5 carrier hugging.


A VERY old idea that I always liked was the 'Hunter' missions.

Essentially, you could go to a station and pull a 'Hunter' mission. This mission would pit you up against another player a random distance away. All you do is sign up for a mission, and as soon as someone else accepts, it's on.

You go after them, they go after you. 100% kill rights. You can even limit it by ship type, etc. If the other player changes ships (or you do), disqualified.

If you sign up for the mission, you have to remain in space for the period of the contest. If you logout or dock ... disqualified.

Rewards would be considerable. This could even be managed in gang hunts.




Market it as a new form of 'pod pilot sport', and you can even wrap the backstory around so that these pod pilot hunts are being recorded and televised, the 'reality television' of EvE. Your opponent is random, to prevent exploitation for rewards, and the rules of engagement are clearly outlined. It's a vicious, bloody sport which centers entirely on capsuleers.

I just love the concept, myself.


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