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Gara Al'Malik
Posted - 2009.04.21 08:39:00 - [1]
 

It probably will not go that far, but you never know what happens when EU gets the censorship party really going. If I understood correctly, EU is turning internet into a cable TV, where you need to pay your ISP for premade website/web service packages which contain all the websites and services that you can visit and use. ShockedSadly it's not even April the first.

Information.
More information
Graphical presentation.

endaler
Posted - 2009.04.21 09:13:00 - [2]
 

Never going to happen, maybemaybemaybe for some country's, but I'm 110% sure it wouldn't be for whole Europe.

Gara Al'Malik
Posted - 2009.04.21 09:28:00 - [3]
 

I hope you are right. My first reaction was also, no way, that can't be true. They can't do such a thing. Now I am a bit afraid that the internet as we now it might be coming to and end here in EU. It would be pretty ironic if I had to travel to a web cafe on our easter neighbor Russia to get a free access to the internet.

Theseuss
Posted - 2009.04.21 09:41:00 - [4]
 

I will be relocating out of EU if such legislation goes through, simple as that. My work is 100% dependent on small niche companies on the web, and such limitations in the telecoms package deal would instantly kill a lot of small businesses, resulting in a lot of lost jobs too.

I'm surprised CCP hasn't made a move on this. It's something that could potentially threaten their business too. How about a campaign to get people to write to their MEPs on the login page or something (for EU customers)?

Gara Al'Malik
Posted - 2009.04.21 10:01:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Gara Al''Malik on 21/04/2009 10:02:51
I don't really think CCP is in trouble, they are hopefully big enough to be included in the absurd web packages. Although, you never know. For many small companies this will be a death sentence, like you said. You have to wonder what goes on in the minds of the politicians that support this crap. I guess they have had a nice share of wine, food, gifts and money from the lobbyers of big companies that want to sweep out competition.

Ranik Sandaris
Caldari
The Centurions
Eternus Imperium Alliance
Posted - 2009.04.21 10:15:00 - [6]
 

This is yet another reason why the EU is crap.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.04.21 10:22:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Ranik Sandaris
This is yet another reason why the EU is crap.


Yeah we really need to stop importing the US's worst ideas and making them even worse.

Clone 1
Posted - 2009.04.21 10:36:00 - [8]
 

Things do look bleek when its so bad, it causes Google and Microsoft to join forces.

IT giants oppose EU Internet-limiting law

Microsoft, Google, Intel and Skype have called on the EU to halt the damaging Telecoms Package proposals which would limit Internet access and legally permit operators to block applications such as Skype. They want the EU to write in to the new law a guarantee of open access to all content, services and applications.

Linkage

Theseuss
Posted - 2009.04.21 11:01:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Theseuss on 21/04/2009 11:02:42
True, the parties lobbying for copyrights have really put a lot of work into this telecoms deal. For example, over where I live no "traditional" media has reported anything about such a critical vote even taking place, all the information is coming from small third party sources (which by itself shows how vital open access to information is). It shows well how the copyright advocates and mass media corporations have a common interest in getting such laws passed, and will do their best to put a stop to a relatively open flow of information on the web.

Sadly, they're once again turning a completely blind eye to the consequences in exchange of quicker profits in my opinion. If small IT-companies and small (open source) projects cannot get visibility in those proposed service packages, technological development being done on the web is going to slow down due to people not being able to participate whichever projects they want to. As a programmer working with open source software myself, not being able to access the online communities to bounce off ideas would quickly lead to jobs such as mine disappearing, along with projects which stem off those developments. The large companies would be killing the technological developments which they themselves are partly dependent on too. Results? More unemployment, which certainly wouldn't help in world's current economic situation.

Do I need to even mention democracy and the free access to information here? For me, the best thing about having access to the web is being able to read about events from multiple points of view, and then making up my own conclusions instead of relying on a point of view pushed forward by a single, large media corporation operating solely to gain profits for its shareholders.

KingsGambit
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.04.21 11:41:00 - [10]
 

This sounds like a far-fetched scare story. Without meaning to cause offense, but that is simply not how the technoloy works. The "Internet" isn't an experience your ISP (or anyone) provides. It is a large amount of Inter-Networked computers sharing data and the different technologies linking them together (routers, switches, modems, fiber-optics, adsl, satellite, WANs, etc). Those files can be xml/php/asp which a program can render and display as a web page. It can be an asp/wmv/flv file that another program will download and display as video. It can be any kind of file or data that is uploaded, downloaded and shared between computers on the same Inter-Network.

There's practically no way you could get every single router and server in Europe to conform to this version of the Internet you read about. The only way something like this could ever be accomplished is if you lived in a government censored country that disconnected the nation from the rest of the world and only let you use approved computers to connect to an intranet.

The notion in the original post is nonsense. There's no way to regulate such a thing, no way to enforce it on such a scale and no way to change the fundamental way computers share data between each other.

Doctor Penguin
Amarr
Sacred Templars
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2009.04.21 11:41:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Doctor Penguin on 21/04/2009 11:42:24
Originally by: Clone 1
Things do look bleek when its so bad, it causes Google and Microsoft to join forces.



They may hate each other corporately, but deep down every major IT company is full of nerds. I think someone once said that the only major contribution nerds have made to the world was the atomic bomb. That achievement has now been surpassed, many times over, by the internet - I can't imagine any self-respecting nerd to ever agree with this proposal.

(If anybody isn't clear what this will result in - think about the last time you were on a SmartFilter-"protected" ISP. Then apply that TO THE ENTIRE INTERNET, NOMATTER WHERE YOU GO.)

Gara Al'Malik
Posted - 2009.04.21 11:43:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Gara Al''Malik on 21/04/2009 11:48:36
Absolutely no media coverage in my country either. Hidden decisions at the top level of government are a great show of democracy.

Another funny fact, the four central freedoms and principles of EU are:

1. The free movement of goods;
2. The free movement of persons (and citizenship), including free movement of workers, and freedom of establishment;
3. The free movement of services;
4. The free movement of capital.

So from those four, it seems that the new legislation will break only the first, third and fourth. I guess it must be OK, since it's only three from four.

I am sure there will be ways to circumvent the systems if it takes place. Probably most of them will be made illegal but luckily I think there will be one, that is 100% legal: start a new ISP company and provide all that is available in the internet now as the service packet. So there will be access to the free internet, but even so, the proposed legislation is horrible.

Theseuss
Posted - 2009.04.21 12:05:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Theseuss on 21/04/2009 12:22:38
Originally by: KingsGambit
This sounds like a far-fetched scare story. Without meaning to cause offense, but that is simply not how the technoloy works. The "Internet" isn't an experience your ISP (or anyone) provides. It is a large amount of Inter-Networked computers sharing data and the different technologies linking them together (routers, switches, modems, fiber-optics, adsl, satellite, WANs, etc). Those files can be xml/php/asp which a program can render and display as a web page. It can be an asp/wmv/flv file that another program will download and display as video. It can be any kind of file or data that is uploaded, downloaded and shared between computers on the same Inter-Network.

There's practically no way you could get every single router and server in Europe to conform to this version of the Internet you read about. The only way something like this could ever be accomplished is if you lived in a government censored country that disconnected the nation from the rest of the world and only let you use approved computers to connect to an intranet.

The notion in the original post is nonsense. There's no way to regulate such a thing, no way to enforce it on such a scale and no way to change the fundamental way computers share data between each other.


Exactly, I am fully aware of how the web works. It is important to notice that ISPs are the ones providing your local or country-specific access points to the web in the first place. What would happen if all the ISPs in your country were forced to act one way based on a law that would contain things such as filtering of traffic or only providing access to a certain set of services? The ISPs would have a choice to conform to it, or be quickly out of business. If the only option for an ISP you have is one that abides by those laws, you can either go with the flow or move to another country that has less harsh laws. Some ISPs could offer "unlimited access" deals, but how long do you think that sort of a deal would be legal provided the proposed changes did pass?

Gara Al'Malik
Posted - 2009.04.21 13:34:00 - [14]
 

Yeah, it might be the case, that there will at some point be EU/national service packets that the ISPs can only modify to some extent. I didn't think about that. There could very well be websites/services that are not acceptable to any service packet.

Cpt Placeholder
Posted - 2009.04.21 14:01:00 - [15]
 

There's no way to (successfully) moderate THE internet, they could just make some crappy euro-net they have full control over and see how that works out for them.

Suffice to say I would certainly move out of any country that outlaws THE internet.
However, I doubt anything seriously troubling will come out of those law discussions, though people who aren't or don't know any geeks might be at a disadvantage.

ReaperOfSly
Gallente
Underworld Protection Agency
South Pole Dancers
Posted - 2009.04.21 14:17:00 - [16]
 

Politicians can be the most shocking Luddites at times like this. They seem to think that the Internet is devil's magic, and something to be feared and hated.

ceaon
Posted - 2009.04.21 14:27:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Clone 1
Things do look bleek when its so bad, it causes Google and Microsoft to join forces.

can i get a link plz

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2009.04.21 14:29:00 - [18]
 

Just a short while ago, Germany passed a law that is supposed to be directed against child **** in the internet.

I say supposed, because many politicians in Germany have always dreamed about censoring the Internet and as soon as they have another "Big Firewall" like the one in China, they will happily use and abuse their censorship powers.

Jacob Mei
Gallente
Posted - 2009.04.21 14:46:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: ReaperOfSly
Politicians can be the most shocking Luddites at times like this. They seem to think that the Internet is devil's magic, and something to be feared and hated.


Well what do you expect when a majority of them look like they were born in the late 1800's Razz.

Most of our leaders (in global terms) are so out of touch with their populations in almost every respect its mind boggling to understand how governments even function anymore these days.

Gara Al'Malik
Posted - 2009.04.21 14:47:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Gara Al''Malik on 21/04/2009 14:47:27
Same thing in Finland as in Germany. I believe you are not allowed to publish the list so there can be any websites in the list that someone doesn't like you to see.

masternerdguy
Gallente
Meerkat Maner
Posted - 2009.04.21 20:32:00 - [21]
 

Great.........this is great......just great.........great.....

Dont worry, bull like this does not pass ever! EVERY Year in the USA there is a legislation or party trying to cencor.... * on the name means "Again"

Video Games
Movies*
TV*
Radio*

So, nothing passes. Fortunately.

But if you are concerned, then you can come over here. Gas costs less here anyway.Very Happy

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2009.04.21 22:02:00 - [22]
 

One public official - "Isnt it beautiful, its a free awesome show of humanity and public debates that is self governed."

Second public official - "Yeah, lets chain it and make it our *****."

Crimsonjade
Posted - 2009.04.22 00:50:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Ranik Sandaris
This is yet another reason why the EU is crap.


Yeah we really need to stop importing the US's worst ideas and making them even worse.


tbh it was people from Europe who screwed the US up to begin with.

Gin G
The Helghast Corporation
Posted - 2009.04.22 02:08:00 - [24]
 

the EUSSR is at it again ay

someone really should put a bullet in the head of anyone who supports then

F'nog
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2009.04.22 04:55:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: KingsGambit
This sounds like a far-fetched scare story. Without meaning to cause offense, but that is simply not how the technoloy works. The "Internet" isn't an experience your ISP (or anyone) provides. It is a large amount of Inter-Networked computers sharing data and the different technologies linking them together (routers, switches, modems, fiber-optics, adsl, satellite, WANs, etc). Those files can be xml/php/asp which a program can render and display as a web page. It can be an asp/wmv/flv file that another program will download and display as video. It can be any kind of file or data that is uploaded, downloaded and shared between computers on the same Inter-Network.

There's practically no way you could get every single router and server in Europe to conform to this version of the Internet you read about. The only way something like this could ever be accomplished is if you lived in a government censored country that disconnected the nation from the rest of the world and only let you use approved computers to connect to an intranet.

The notion in the original post is nonsense. There's no way to regulate such a thing, no way to enforce it on such a scale and no way to change the fundamental way computers share data between each other.


Just because you and I know how the interwebs work doesn't mean any politicians do.

I say let them do it. Then when one of them can't get to his favorite pron site everyone can laugh at him.

Of course, I'm not in the EU so take that as you will.

Overseer Aliena
Caldari
Posted - 2009.04.22 05:11:00 - [26]
 

You know with all the ramifications and downfalls that this process can bring about on us like a swarm of locust does anyone else find it funny that all the OP only seems to be concerned about one little game?

Victor Valka
Caldari
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2009.04.22 06:40:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Overseer Aliena
You know with all the ramifications and downfalls that this process can bring about on us like a swarm of locust does anyone else find it funny that all the OP only seems to be concerned about one little game?
Internet spaceships is srs bsns!

Ranik Sandaris
Caldari
The Centurions
Eternus Imperium Alliance
Posted - 2009.04.22 07:34:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Crimsonjade
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Ranik Sandaris
This is yet another reason why the EU is crap.


Yeah we really need to stop importing the US's worst ideas and making them even worse.


tbh it was people from Europe who screwed the US up to begin with.


/facepalm

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2009.04.22 07:50:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Crimsonjade
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Ranik Sandaris
This is yet another reason why the EU is crap.


Yeah we really need to stop importing the US's worst ideas and making them even worse.


tbh it was people from Europe who screwed the US up to begin with.


US was started because Europe was crap. Now US is crap and we are importing your ****.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.04.22 07:54:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Crimsonjade
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Ranik Sandaris
This is yet another reason why the EU is crap.


Yeah we really need to stop importing the US's worst ideas and making them even worse.


tbh it was people from Europe who screwed the US up to begin with.


Yeah, if only world communications were handled by smoke signals and totem poles carried on canoes, then we wouldn't be in this mess.


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