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Moloch Baal
Amarr
The Village Idiots
Posted - 2009.08.18 15:35:00 - [331]
 

lets keep this thread going

Tortugan
Internal Anarchy
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2009.08.18 17:14:00 - [332]
 

Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde
tortugan... I've not checked this thread in like weeks and you're still here droning on and regurgitating the same debunked objections for no discernable purpose other than to have something to do while you camp the jita undock.

C+P/COAD/General--->that way


So Aleks- what do you think a reasonable counter to an AF should be?

OrcephDrake
Posted - 2009.09.10 07:23:00 - [333]
 

Totally for supporting more bonuses for T2 frigs.

My Hawk is being out DPSed by a tech1 ship in EFT WITH all LVL5 skills and the other one with basic noob skills. *sigh* Why even bother getting it except for the range bonus. Even that isnt that great.

Plug You
Caldari
Posted - 2009.09.10 10:01:00 - [334]
 

assault frigates lacking 4th bonus

Thenoran
Caldari
Tranquility Industries

Posted - 2009.09.10 12:50:00 - [335]
 

It's not a matter of people agreeing or disagreeing even, it's part of status quo.
All T2 ships get 4 bonuses and Assault Frigates are T2 ships and should thus get their 4th bonus.

Originally the Assault Frigates' 4th bonus was the racial resist, which is now built into the hull like ALL other T2 ships.
However, they have yet to recieve their new 4th bonus.

Supported all the way as AFs not having a 4th bonus is breaking the current T2 ship standards.

Lili Lu
Posted - 2009.09.10 13:51:00 - [336]
 

Supported.

There is no reason to have one bonus removed from the "frigate" bonuses. For example, Incursus +10% small hybrid falloff, +5% small hybrid damage per frigate level - becomes Enyo +5% small hybrid damage per frigate level. WTF?!ugh

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2009.09.10 21:34:00 - [337]
 

Originally by: Wang Jing
Assault Ships (Assault Frigates) are currently the only T2 ships which do not receive 4 bonuses. It is only fair that this is addressed, and a lot of the ships in this class are in desperate need of another bonus:

Hawk and Vengeance: These need a second damage bonus, as they are currently outdamaged by the kestrel, a T1 frigate, and rockets in general give very poor performance for their fitting requirements. It is increasingly common for the vengeance to be fitted with blasters or lasers as even without bonuses they will outperform rockets. This is surely a sign something needs to be done.

Wolf and Jaguar: Given the concept of minmatar ships as being fast moving, outmanouevering their opponents and dancing around them, the lack of a tracking bonus on these ships is absurd. Given that their T1 counterpart, the infamous Rifter, receives this bonus, it is quite clear that it is necessary for the role they are most often required to perform; engaging the enemy in a tight orbit, using their superior speed to avoid the guns of a larger foe.

The other ships in this class, whilst having no glaring flaws, are still in need of help. For example, it is worrying when Gallente pilots in need of a high dps, take no prisoners blaster using frigate will pick an interceptor, the Taranis, over an assault frigate, the Enyo, everytime. In my view that is indicative of a serious problem with assault frigates, and I believe a 4th bonus will justify the cost of these ships and make them perform the way they should.


Supported

Sith LordX
Posted - 2009.09.10 21:48:00 - [338]
 

Edited by: Sith LordX on 10/09/2009 21:54:16
Edited by: Sith LordX on 10/09/2009 21:52:24
+1 Yeah lets get enough people on here to make CCP give the 4th bonus once and for all. Laughing Seriously T2 frigs are too fragile to BS neuts + light drones. BS's shouldn't be able to use light drones anyways.

I just insta pop each time I fight a BS, cus I get caped out and light droned to death. Rolling Eyes T2 AF's aren't faction ships, faction ships get 3 bonuses. T2 get 4 bonuses.

Zastrow J
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.09.10 22:14:00 - [339]
 

Edited by: Zastrow J on 10/09/2009 22:16:12
in our little chit chat with ccp on this they told us the reason that ass frigs only have 3 boners is because the damage resistance that is innate to the hull was supposed to be the 4th bonus. Yet they did agree that ass frigs should be looked at again, and I personally suggested an afterburner speed bonus Exclamation

anyways i know this isnt a resolution or anything i just want you guys to know it was on the agenda and was duly raised as an issue

xOm3gAx
Caldari
Stain of Mind

Posted - 2009.09.11 01:03:00 - [340]
 

Edited by: xOm3gAx on 11/09/2009 01:04:03
I support this issue, and suggest;

Ishkur: 5% drone damage/hp per level
Enyo: 5% hybrid ROF per level

Harpy: 5% hybrid ROF per level
Hawk: 5% Missle ROF per level

Retribution: 5% Laser ROF per level
Vengeance: 5% rocket ROF per level

Jaguar/wolf: 5% proj ROF per level

Edit: thanks for the update Zastrow

Undertow Latheus
Posted - 2009.09.11 02:23:00 - [341]
 

Originally by: The Monkeysphere
They do have 4 bonuses. The fourth one is hidden, that's all.

It used to be public but people kept whining about the apparently bad bonus. A lot of people are very bad at this game.


....Well then by that logic, AF's are the only t2 ships that only have 4 bonuses, and hacs, recons, cs's, etc. have 5 bonuses (5th being hidden, thats all)

Give assault frigs their missing 4th (or 5th :P ) bonus! :)

Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
Posted - 2009.09.11 06:35:00 - [342]
 

Originally by: The Monkeysphere
They do have 4 bonuses. The fourth one is hidden, that's all.

It used to be public but people kept whining about the apparently bad bonus. A lot of people are very bad at this game.
technically this

but yeah, still supported

however, a rocket boost should come first, then those utilizing them can get a range bonus or something

Garr Anders
Minmatar
The Red Circle Inc.

Posted - 2009.09.11 06:55:00 - [343]
 

+1

Reef Skywalker
Posted - 2009.09.11 09:31:00 - [344]
 

/signed

Dhei'Nja
QUANTUM NOMAD
Posted - 2009.09.11 12:26:00 - [345]
 

Edited by: Dhei''Nja on 11/09/2009 12:30:34
Quote:

Jaguar/wolf: 5% proj ROF per level



I don't particularly care what gets done to the other AF's but I do care about the Jaguar and Wolf.

If everything is getting a ROF bonus then fine, we're simply adding DPS and not addressing specific issues. I don't want my AC's firing faster, I just want them to hit better, sure I can drop my speed in orbit essentially giving up the only thing a minnie AF has going for it.

And please, it's been requested for many months now, swap the optimal/falloff bonuses already.

cBOLTSON
Star Frontiers
Posted - 2009.09.11 12:27:00 - [346]
 

Fully supported.
The amarr assault frigs , especially the one that lacks midslots, are really bad.

Also I love my harpy, some extra ship speed / tracking is needed.

But not just that, like wang says, there the only t2 ships that dont recieve 4 bonuses. And you have to remeber, the assault frig is quite a lot of peoples first taste of t2 ships, at least it was mine. So you want to let them leave the ship feeling it is actually well worth the extra iskies and training.

Kaydin Versailles
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2009.09.11 17:43:00 - [347]
 


Tohmu Blackwing
Posted - 2009.09.15 06:25:00 - [348]
 

Originally by: Tortugan
Quote:
you didnt read any of the posts in this thread now did you


In fact, I did. Did you?

Quote:
AFs have very specific roles, as do most T2 ships. Some are better at tanking, others are better at tackling, others are better at putting out solid DPS. I don't think it would be the end of the world if they got a buff, but I really don't think it's necessary.


^ Meaning, hell yes- it's possible to put out more DPS in a Kestrel than a Hawk, but does that mean that make a Kestrel a better ship? Honestly- LTFF (Learn To F***ing Fly) ships before whining for a buff. Yes, AFs are squishy and not easy ships to fly- but they're FRIGATES. The fact that I feel wholly comfortable engaging most T2 cruisers in my AF is a clear sign that if anything, AFs need a nerf- but quite frankly, they're fine where they are now.

AFs take specialization to fly, and practice to fly well. Learn to choose your engagements, and take full advantage of your size and your tank. If you're getting popped too quick, it's because you're allowing yourself to be tracked- medium guns and larger should never hit you if you're orbiting at close range, and small drones can be killed, tanked, or outrun. If your target is tanking you, go after something smaller, and quit whining that your T2 Frigate can't kill a mission fit Battlecruiser.

Honestly- you wonder why Eve has so many balance issues? It's because people like those supporting this thread cba to learn from their mistakes, and be creative- they'd rather just complain and blame CCP.

Assault Frigs are fine. If you can't fly them well, that's your own damn problem.
Ya lost me on this post, buddy. I didn't agree with you before, but now your just name calling and stroking your epeen and telling us what a bad, bad pilot you are and we should all just disregard our own experiences and fly something else, because YOU tell us we don't know what we are doing.

For that matter, why don't we all just quit EVE and let you play by yourself, eh?

I especially like the "AFs take specialization to fly..." comment. While I would agree completely with you on that point, it is your arrogance throughout your post that makes this just another "eyes roll into the back of the head, here he goes again" moment.

I read your posts but ignored them based on the OVERWHELMING support in this thread, which also happened to fit with my own experiences. But you keep posting. You keep telling us how good you are, and how bad we all must be, and now you are name calling. Let it go, ok? It is pretty obvious that you are in a very small minority here, and now you are just using this thread to stroke your ego.

You made your (very limited) constructive (read as: anecdotal) arguments 4 or 5 posts ago, now go away and find another thread to troll.

Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2009.09.15 06:42:00 - [349]
 

The counters to an AF shouldnt change and wont change. Bringing them in line with all othet T2 shiptypes has little to do with anti AF tactic. Unless CCP gets very creative with the bonuses, the role of the AF wont change it'll just be able to do it right and be worth the expense.

Tortugan
Internal Anarchy
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2009.09.15 07:48:00 - [350]
 

Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde
The counters to an AF shouldnt change and wont change. Bringing them in line with all othet T2 shiptypes has little to do with anti AF tactic. Unless CCP gets very creative with the bonuses, the role of the AF wont change it'll just be able to do it right and be worth the expense.


Indeed, AFs are clearly underpowerd, and are easy to kill. We should buff them more. /s

barvo
7th Space Cavalry

Posted - 2009.09.15 12:24:00 - [351]
 

Supported

Auri Hella
Downwind Trading Guild

Posted - 2009.09.15 19:30:00 - [352]
 

I can honestly say I've never flown any AF in pvp except for a couple of fun/suicide ops, which should tell you all you need to know.

Also make the Hawk less pathetic please.

Bibbleibble
Posted - 2009.09.15 21:03:00 - [353]
 


Holy Wanderer
Posted - 2009.09.16 03:25:00 - [354]
 

I support this product.

Yon Krum
The Knights Templar
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2009.09.16 06:18:00 - [355]
 

Originally by: Zastrow J
Edited by: Zastrow J on 10/09/2009 22:16:12
in our little chit chat with ccp on this they told us the reason that ass frigs only have 3 boners is because the damage resistance that is innate to the hull was supposed to be the 4th bonus. Yet they did agree that ass frigs should be looked at again, and I personally suggested an afterburner speed bonus Exclamation

anyways i know this isnt a resolution or anything i just want you guys to know it was on the agenda and was duly raised as an issue


The problem with this is simple, as I posted earlier in this thread as well:

The other T2 ships, with the exception of the equally underwhelming EAS, get a total of *5* bonuses if you count their resistances that way. AF get 4.

So, counting resistances does not make the problem go away.

--Krum

Feffri
Caldari
Kroll's Legion

Posted - 2009.09.17 19:20:00 - [356]
 

Edited by: Feffri on 17/09/2009 19:20:57
I support this. Especially the retribution upgrade. It should have at least two mid slots if not 3. Take down a low slot and add the mid slot if it won't be balanced, if need be but only one mid is ridiculous.

Nekmet Awai
Posted - 2009.09.18 00:54:00 - [357]
 

yer sure.

Lord Cath
Amarr
Gung-Ho
Posted - 2009.09.18 07:31:00 - [358]
 

Originally by: Feffri
Edited by: Feffri on 17/09/2009 19:20:57
I support this. Especially the retribution upgrade. It should have at least two mid slots if not 3. Take down a low slot and add the mid slot if it won't be balanced, if need be but only one mid is ridiculous.


this again since it seems to get lost in the 4th bonus (which i fully support in case of confusion) discussion.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2009.09.18 08:22:00 - [359]
 

I kind of like the current Retribution. It has lots of damage, range and tank .. it has purpose.
Would be awesome to have tackle but fear it would jump to the top of the pile in the same way the Zealot did with the 5th turret. Tackling Retributions would be immensely powerful.

Game has evolved a lot lately and more options are available. Adding a bonus following the old scheme (tracking, damage, tank etc) is easy but uninspired and quite frankly boring.

There is currently a push to add an AB bonus to all the Assault Frigates, which will likely end up invalidating all but three of them with the Jaguar being supreme against everything.

A better role bonus for the class, which would benefit all of them, is to borrow the heat resistance bonus from the T3 hulls and perhaps add a bit .. AFs would gain speed, tank, damage and longevity without obsoleting any of them.

Make them "special" (in a good way, not the Deliverance way). Until then this does not have my support.

Lord Cath
Amarr
Gung-Ho
Posted - 2009.09.18 12:22:00 - [360]
 

I kinda find it a pitty that the amarr have the choice between an AF which cannot tackle but does good damage or a heavy tackler that does no damage...

just the mere fact that the retri has only 1 mid slot turns the amarr race into the race with the most inversatile AF roles around. For my playing style anyway.


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