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FOl2TY8
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.04.17 17:32:00 - [31]
 

Also I am curious about one thing. I'm not doubting that 70% of the material on TPB is non-copyrighted material but I wonder what are the most popular torrents on TPB? If you go to it and look at the top 100 for any of the sections, movies, tv, software, games etc. everything in those lists are copyrighted.

EliteSlave
Minmatar
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.04.17 18:00:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: EliteSlave on 17/04/2009 18:04:58
Lets see... with just these links this site should be shut down fully.


Copyright Infringements..

Infringed some more...

Need I say more?

-----------------------------

What they should have done, since they are a small "operated team" they should have made it a Submit torrent link, then be approved in a queue list. They on the other hand took 0 responsiblity and thus will pay for it.

EliteSlave
Minmatar
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.04.17 18:02:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Reiisha
Originally by: EliteSlave
If you dont have the support staff to operate the site, then that is Negligence.


So..... It's illegal if your home-run, free of charge service becomes succesful?


If your home-run site that offers access to Illegal items, then yes it is Illegal as they did not have permission from the holders of the copyrights / patents.

But if you had a home-run site that provided access to open-source, non copyright / patented items then no it would not be illegal.

FOl2TY8
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.04.17 18:13:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: EliteSlave

If your home-run site that offers access to Illegal items, then yes it is Illegal as they did not have permission from the holders of the copyrights / patents.

But if you had a home-run site that provided access to open-source, non copyright / patented items then no it would not be illegal.


This is it in a nutshell. I'm sorry that you guys can't feel like 1337 hackers anymore by downloading free stuff but it is the law. Just because it's easy to do and feels harmless doesn't make it any less criminal.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2009.04.17 18:15:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: EliteSlave
Edited by: EliteSlave on 17/04/2009 18:04:58
Lets see... with just these links this site should be shut down fully.


Copyright Infringements..

Infringed some more...

Need I say more?

-----------------------------

What they should have done, since they are a small "operated team" they should have made it a Submit torrent link, then be approved in a queue list. They on the other hand took 0 responsiblity and thus will pay for it.

And you should be put into jail for linking this on a public forum. Just following your logic.

FOl2TY8
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.04.17 18:17:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: FOl2TY8 on 17/04/2009 18:19:20
Originally by: Abrazzar

And you should be put into jail for linking this on a public forum. Just following your logic.


This is completely wrong. How are those screenshots copyrighted or infringing a copyright? You are just grasping at straws because any argument that you may have about this issue leads to the conclusion that you just want to download copyrighted material for free.

*edit for grammar

Abrazzar
Posted - 2009.04.17 18:21:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: FOl2TY8
Originally by: Abrazzar

And you should be put into jail for linking this on a public forum. Just following your logic.


This is completely wrong. How is those screenshots copyrighted or infringing a copyright? You are just grasping at straws because any argument that you may have about this issue leads to the conclusion that you just want to download copyrighted material for free.

With linking those sites he is supporting the proliferation of copyright infringement which makes him as responsible for copyright infringements done as, for example, the Pirate Bay owners. He should be put into jail and should have to pay a fine for any potential copyright infringements that may have resulted in his activity of cross-linking pirated material.

Legionos McGuiros
Caldari
Legio Prima Victrix
Imperius Legio Victrix
Posted - 2009.04.17 18:22:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: ReaperOfSly
So the big faceless corporations won despite having a case with more holes in it than a colander. Fan-bloody-tastic.
Welcome to the world where the corporations make their own laws i guess.

We're all going to hell now.


No we're all going to EVE Very Happy

Gone'Postal
Roast and Toast Inc.
Posted - 2009.04.17 18:26:00 - [39]
 

Never used the site but damn.. Crying or Very sad

lofty29
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.04.17 18:29:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: FOl2TY8
Edited by: FOl2TY8 on 17/04/2009 18:19:20
Originally by: Abrazzar

And you should be put into jail for linking this on a public forum. Just following your logic.


This is completely wrong. How are those screenshots copyrighted or infringing a copyright? You are just grasping at straws because any argument that you may have about this issue leads to the conclusion that you just want to download copyrighted material for free.

*edit for grammar


Linking those screenshots is exactly the same 'offense' as thepiratebay commited.

Someone might look at that screenshot, and go 'ooh i wonder where i could find that website' and as such they are proliferating copyright infringement.

It's a massive loophole and it's a shame that big business is still more powerful than the law.

Jhagiti Tyran
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2009.04.17 18:32:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Nigel Sheldon
Originally by: EliteSlave
serves them right for doing illegal activities


ummm how are they doing illegal activities - prehaps you should have read up on the case....
Many people here complain that we don't have torrents for the patches etc or the expansions...this throws everything up into the air...file sharing is a way of life these days, and to brand it illegal is a dangerous precident...



Try advertising a service called "The coke bay" and arrange meetings between people including soft drink sellers and ******* dealers and see if you can get away with it. Whatever the arguments about corporate pricing and marketing and even the moral arguments copyright theft is a legally a crime and committing a crime or helping others to commit a crime is also illegal.

FOl2TY8
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.04.17 18:37:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: lofty29


Linking those screenshots is exactly the same 'offense' as thepiratebay commited.

Someone might look at that screenshot, and go 'ooh i wonder where i could find that website' and as such they are proliferating copyright infringement.

It's a massive loophole and it's a shame that big business is still more powerful than the law.


Wow you guys are really reaching here. By showing the screenshots he is not providing a method of downloading illegal material. Maybe you should press charges against your local electric utility? After all they supplied the electricity that powers the computer that enables you to see the screenshot of a website that is enabling people to download illegally.

Of course you can continue to argue this point or you can offer arguments about why you think TPB is not participating in illegal activity.

rValdez5987
Amarr
Imperial Guard.
Posted - 2009.04.17 19:44:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: ReaperOfSly
So the big faceless corporations won despite having a case with more holes in it than a colander. Fan-bloody-tastic.
Welcome to the world where the corporations make their own laws i guess.

We're all going to hell now.


Corporations own the justice system, the government, everything. They will do as they please, and you see how they act when you try to stop them.

This world needs massive reform away from being cash-centric.

FOl2TY8
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.04.17 20:04:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: rValdez5987

Corporations own the justice system, the government, everything. They will do as they please, and you see how they act when you try to stop them.

This world needs massive reform away from being cash-centric.


Don't tinfoil hats get a little itchy? You act like it's some crazy new phenomena that corporations have their fingers in a whole bunch of political pies. It's been this way since commerce was invented. Either get over it, join the corporations or put yourself in a position of power to change the way it is. These kind of statements are not very creative and they add nothing to whatever argument you are applying them to.

Again I ask, can any of you pirate bay proponents come up with an argument for downloading software illegally?

rValdez5987
Amarr
Imperial Guard.
Posted - 2009.04.17 20:30:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: rValdez5987 on 17/04/2009 20:33:06
Originally by: FOl2TY8
Originally by: rValdez5987

Corporations own the justice system, the government, everything. They will do as they please, and you see how they act when you try to stop them.

This world needs massive reform away from being cash-centric.


Don't tinfoil hats get a little itchy? You act like it's some crazy new phenomena that corporations have their fingers in a whole bunch of political pies. It's been this way since commerce was invented. Either get over it, join the corporations or put yourself in a position of power to change the way it is. These kind of statements are not very creative and they add nothing to whatever argument you are applying them to.

Again I ask, can any of you pirate bay proponents come up with an argument for downloading software illegally?


I was simply making a statement for those out there that dont get how the world works.

I want to change the world. I want to rid our society of the pointless wants of mankind like cash. Make it a fair life for all those who are willing to work together for it.

I can't do it however. There are too many ideologies. Religion, greed, social views, moral views, ethics views. Too many differences in opinion. And the Human populace is TOO STUPID.

The majority of mankind doesn't care what rights they have, what they can afford to buy, how hard they have to work, as long as they have a place to sleep and food to eat.

As I have said many times before, mankind is barely above an ape. It's time to evolve beyond this, but mankind never will. You fail to adapt. It's my belief that we will be extinct by our own hand within 200 years. The way things are going I look forward to it.

(in regard to money and corporations having control of law etc, duh, everyone knows money will buy anything. Everyone has a price, your senator, your president, even your mother. if you have the cash you can get ANYTHING)

I've resigned myself to simply living my life as comfortably as possible, and then dying eventually. Anything that comes in between thats good is a bonus.

And to answer your question, If it was me, I would of drafted a law to crack down on users knowingly uploading the initial illegal content.

Any other punishment for illegal content uploading needs to first be handled by ISP's through fines or bandwidth limiting.

Corwain
Posted - 2009.04.17 20:42:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Corwain on 17/04/2009 20:41:49
How creativity is being strangled by the law

Atomos Darksun
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.04.17 20:47:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: lofty29
Originally by: FOl2TY8
Edited by: FOl2TY8 on 17/04/2009 18:19:20
Originally by: Abrazzar

And you should be put into jail for linking this on a public forum. Just following your logic.


This is completely wrong. How are those screenshots copyrighted or infringing a copyright? You are just grasping at straws because any argument that you may have about this issue leads to the conclusion that you just want to download copyrighted material for free.

*edit for grammar


Linking those screenshots is exactly the same 'offense' as thepiratebay commited.

Someone might look at that screenshot, and go 'ooh i wonder where i could find that website' and as such they are proliferating copyright infringement.

It's a massive loophole and it's a shame that big business is still more powerful than the law.
Wrong. It's if you were to buy and maintain a website that had tens of thousands of users on it every day (let's use EVE-O for this example), somebody posts a link to a copyrighted image, it isn't removed, and then you get sent to court and convicted.

Can anyone think of a website you can interact with (post on) that this DOESN'T happen on? ugh

Mother Clanger
Viziam
Posted - 2009.04.17 20:54:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Mother Clanger on 17/04/2009 21:01:38
I don't think anyone can argue that the piratebay founders have always taken a very cavalier approach to the way that they approached copyright. Could they have done more to restrict the kind of torrent files that appeared on the searches? Of course they could, that was the point. The point is that all these companies are sticking to this mentality of "Well this is how we've always done things, so we'll just slightly modify the business model to take into account this new avenue of selling our stuff". They don't take into account that the internet has changed everything.

There will always be people who pirate, there's no getting away from it now. These companies are always going on about how they are losing hundreds of millions of pounds to pirates. What does that prove? It proves that a large number of people believe it's not worth handing over their money at the current price point. What if instead they modified the price point or the product to give what people perceive is more inline with their idea of value for money? What if they changed things so that the worth of pirating was negligible? Why not use the channels they sell in to their respective advantages?

Here's a radical idea, what if when a new album is launched, instead of costing a flat 8 on iTunes, or 15 in the shops for the first 3 months, 12 for the first year, 9.99 for two years after etc., what if instead everything cost 10 on first release, then the price came down by 10% for every 100,000 purchases? You work with human behavior instead of against it.

What if you took the Radiohead approach? You pay what you think the album/film is worth for the download version. Of course some people aren't going to pay a penny. Many people, surprisingly did. Then they released a CD version and a really nice collectors edition that was actually worth paying extra for. Why not take the same approach to DVD/Blu-ray's. Would I be more inclined to pay upwards of 15 for a new DVD if I was getting something physical in the box that actually made it worth buying a physical copy? Of course. Use the damn medium to its advantage. Don't get me started on the stealth increase in the initial price point that is Blu-ray. 25 for a new film when DVD was always 16-17? Yeah, that'll be inflation of course, not money grabbing studios.

Things are starting to change. Spotify, Apple film rentals, DRM free music, Nokia "Come with Music". If only these companies would take their heads out of the collective arses, experiment and try a few new innovative business models, the world would actually be on their side.

As it stands I cannot wait for a few startups to come along pound these idiots into yesterday.

- MC

(Bold edit)

rValdez5987
Amarr
Imperial Guard.
Posted - 2009.04.17 21:01:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Corwain
Edited by: Corwain on 17/04/2009 20:41:49
How creativity is being strangled by the law


Watched the video, that man gets it. Thank you very much for sharing that. Gives me some hope that I'm not entirely alone in my views.

Nigel Sheldon
Caldari
Skaro Mining Reborn
Posted - 2009.04.17 21:09:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: FOl2TY8
Originally by: lofty29


Linking those screenshots is exactly the same 'offense' as thepiratebay commited.

Someone might look at that screenshot, and go 'ooh i wonder where i could find that website' and as such they are proliferating copyright infringement.

It's a massive loophole and it's a shame that big business is still more powerful than the law.


Wow you guys are really reaching here. By showing the screenshots he is not providing a method of downloading illegal material. Maybe you should press charges against your local electric utility? After all they supplied the electricity that powers the computer that enables you to see the screenshot of a website that is enabling people to download illegally.

Of course you can continue to argue this point or you can offer arguments about why you think TPB is not participating in illegal activity.


simple..because it didn't host any of the files itself....it was a search engine just like google etc etc.
You type say wall-e torrent in google and you will get a list of torrent files for it...so maybe we should sue google or yahoo or any other search engine out there...
they are not responsible for what other people do.....piracy is a crime yes - I agree, but I don't agree that the pirate bay was breaking any laws...again 70% of it is legal stuff.
This all stems from the fat cat suits at emi, warner etc etc wanting to keep their 90% share of all incomes, the trial was a farce and the guilty verdict was bought and paid for no matter how much evidence to the contray was published...and in my opinon TPB had some damn good evidence on their side....

ReaperOfSly
Gallente
Underworld Protection Agency
South Pole Dancers
Posted - 2009.04.17 21:15:00 - [51]
 

Any piece of software, any mp3 and any video, all it is is one long binary number. It's legally impossible to copyright a number. Therefore, it is legally impossible to copyright digital content.

I like this argument. It makes a mockery of the whole concept of copyright, and is logically water-tight. YARRRR!!

FOl2TY8
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.04.17 21:38:00 - [52]
 

First of all that TED presentation has nothing to do with pirating copyrighted material.

Clanger I think your ideas about what the entertainment industry should do to fix pirating are exactly correct. Fixing the problem instead of desperately trying to keep the status quo are what businesses should concentrate on. The outcome of this trial will have zero affect on piracy regardless of the verdict. However what TPB is doing is illegal in my opinion because they are not just a general search engine. They are a search engine for torrents exclusively and they did very little self policing if any at all.

I'm sure that the trial was a mess because the entertainment industries are out of touch with the majority of society and TPB owners are "cavalier" in their approach to the law. Doesn't change the fact that what they are doing is in fact illegal which has been proved in a court of law. If you don't like that then you always have the appeal to look forward to.

Just because OJ Simpson probably killed Nicole Brown doesn't change the fact that he is innocent of murder.

FOl2TY8
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.04.17 21:40:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: ReaperOfSly
Any piece of software, any mp3 and any video, all it is is one long binary number. It's legally impossible to copyright a number. Therefore, it is legally impossible to copyright digital content.

I like this argument. It makes a mockery of the whole concept of copyright, and is logically water-tight. YARRRR!!


All you are is a bunch of carbon organized in a certain way. Therefore I get to stab you in the face because carbon has no rights.

Roymundo
Caldari
Malevolence.
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2009.04.17 22:29:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Nigel Sheldon
but they didn't break any laws....thats the thing...they are not resonsible for what people share....that was the whole point of the case...


thats a bit like letting some dude **** a woman in your house. "ah sure, i'm not the one doing it so its fine....."

they knew full well that the site was being used to facilitate share copyrighted materials. the court couldn't prove it 100% on evidence but i reckon the judge went with his common sense.

Roymundo
Caldari
Malevolence.
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2009.04.17 22:55:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: ReaperOfSly
Any piece of software, any mp3 and any video, all it is is one long binary number. It's legally impossible to copyright a number. Therefore, it is legally impossible to copyright digital content.

I like this argument. It makes a mockery of the whole concept of copyright, and is logically water-tight. YARRRR!!


you can't copyright a number no, but you sure can copyright the way in which the numbers come together.

you over analyse things bucko.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.04.17 23:01:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: EliteSlave
Originally by: Nigel Sheldon
Originally by: EliteSlave
serves them right for doing illegal activities


ummm how are they doing illegal activities - prehaps you should have read up on the case....
Many people here complain that we don't have torrents for the patches etc or the expansions...this throws everything up into the air...file sharing is a way of life these days, and to brand it illegal is a dangerous precident...



Did they moderate the search engine to prevent the sharing of Copyright protected items? No,
Did they provide a means for the sharing of Copyright Protected Items? Yes,
Did they knowingly allow it to continue with out impedance? Yes.

With this said, They faciliated the crime.




By this reasoning, your ISP is equally guilty.

Asuka Smith
Gallente
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Posted - 2009.04.17 23:23:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Asuka Smith on 17/04/2009 23:27:44
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 17/04/2009 23:25:18
Those four are guilty as hell and everyone knows it, whether you want to try and justify it or not is up to you as an individual.

That said I wish they had gotten off because even if the law is on the side of the corporations the law is stupid. I fileshare all the time, **** THE MAN! it might be illegal but in my country so are drugs I do all sorts of illegal **** because I am in it for me, not some faceless suit.

EDIT: Lol at all you legal eagles trying to justify their filesharing, seriously. The NAME OF THE SITE is "PIRATE BAY", they obviously knew what they were doing was illegal and they obviously knew the site existed solely to provide copyrighted material illegally. There is no way you can say "oh they only tracked the files blah blah blah". They knew the score and they knew the risks. It finally caught up to them.

EDIT2: They even flaunted their illegal activities in the legal threats section of the site where they posted the requests to remove copyrighted material and flipped the companies the bird and let the files remain. There is no way they could win in court because they are obviously criminals. You guys should argue that "the law is stupid" or "**** the man who cares if it is illegal", not "these guys are innocent and they have no dirt on their hands whatsoever the pirate bay existed to distribute my garage bands demo tape etc etc it is just a coincidence that it is the most popular site for illegal filesharing on the internet".

Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2009.04.17 23:25:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: EliteSlave
Edited by: EliteSlave on 17/04/2009 18:04:58
Lets see... with just these links this site should be shut down fully.


Copyright Infringements..

Infringed some more...

Need I say more?

-----------------------------

What they should have done, since they are a small "operated team" they should have made it a Submit torrent link, then be approved in a queue list. They on the other hand took 0 responsiblity and thus will pay for it.
Big woop de ****ing doo. Maybe 50 links topside there. Now, Link a full catalogue of all the "Over" 1,600,000.00 Torrents that TPB is tracking. Realise that just because all you dare to look for is copyrighted stuff, doesn't mean that its mostly copyrighted stuff.

Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2009.04.17 23:30:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: ReaperOfSly
Any piece of software, any mp3 and any video, all it is is one long binary number. It's legally impossible to copyright a number. Therefore, it is legally impossible to copyright digital content.

I like this argument. It makes a mockery of the whole concept of copyright, and is logically water-tight. YARRRR!!


I like that you like this logic.

Asuka Smith
Gallente
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Posted - 2009.04.17 23:40:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: EliteSlave
Edited by: EliteSlave on 17/04/2009 18:04:58
Lets see... with just these links this site should be shut down fully.


Copyright Infringements..

Infringed some more...

Need I say more?

-----------------------------

What they should have done, since they are a small "operated team" they should have made it a Submit torrent link, then be approved in a queue list. They on the other hand took 0 responsiblity and thus will pay for it.
Big woop de ****ing doo. Maybe 50 links topside there. Now, Link a full catalogue of all the "Over" 1,600,000.00 Torrents that TPB is tracking. Realise that just because all you dare to look for is copyrighted stuff, doesn't mean that its mostly copyrighted stuff.


But it IS mostly copyrighted stuff. The vast majority is copyrighted.

And to the people saying "but they only tracked it", well the torrent would not exist without a tracker so they directly facilitated it. Unlike google who simply indexes what exists, TPB made the torrent happen and brought it INTO existence. I am sure that that is the crux of the legal argument and it is an insurmountable one. TPB is GUILTY and the courts rightfully determined that.

However as I have said I am all for piracy and I wish they could have gotten away with it, but it IS illegal and they DID break the law.


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