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n0thing
Executive Intervention
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2009.04.16 23:09:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Awox
It's way better than an ECCM / signal buff would have ever been...

Seriously, get rid of Zulupark already. FFS.



signed

Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2009.04.16 23:34:00 - [32]
 

Change was completely the wrong thing imo, its only making it worse for cruiser-size gangs which always was the primary problem.

With the new probing system getting a warpin on that falcon 200km off was so ridiculously easy, I wonder why the Devs didnt realize that.

Looking forward to more whining ugh

n5000
Posted - 2009.04.17 00:12:00 - [33]
 

I am so happy to have 10 m3 drone bay on Falcon! Deevs, thank you sooo much!Evil or Very Mad

Gambit Stryder
Privateers
Posted - 2009.04.17 00:21:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: Jared D'Uroth

Wait, so they bring the Falcon INLINE with the other Recons, and you are complaining. I hope you're trolling when you ADMIT that gangs without Falcons always lost. No ship should *ALWAYS* be needed to win.


They didnt bring it inline, or it would have a tank, its ewar would work 100% of the time and it would be able to deal damage.


How's that one-dimensional mind working out for ya?

Solid Prefekt
Haven Front
Posted - 2009.04.17 03:27:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: TimMc

This. Most recons only fit 2-3 ewar modules, not 6 like the ECM boats.


The other ewar modules work 100% of the time.
The other ewar modules were only partially effective. I would have loved webs that stopped you to 0km/s, had a 90%+ success rate and could do it from 175km away. Wanna trade? I'll give you 100% chance to work where you only stop 60% of their modules from working and you have to do it from 40km max range.

Bilfiz
Posted - 2009.04.17 04:13:00 - [36]
 

RIP Falcon

Not worth the trit. i used to build it....

CCP as always f's it up.

Who comes up with this crap.YARRRR!!

Kowaii Rabbit
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.04.17 07:19:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Kowaii Rabbit on 18/04/2009 00:04:36

Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: Jared D'Uroth

Wait, so they bring the Falcon INLINE with the other Recons, and you are complaining. I hope you're trolling when you ADMIT that gangs without Falcons always lost. No ship should *ALWAYS* be needed to win.


They didnt bring it inline, or it would have a tank, its ewar would work 100% of the time and it would be able to deal damage.


...and wouldn't need a different slot for each target race.



http://www.ezy-english.com

n0thing
Executive Intervention
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2009.04.17 07:58:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Change was completely the wrong thing imo, its only making it worse for cruiser-size gangs which always was the primary problem.

With the new probing system getting a warpin on that falcon 200km off was so ridiculously easy, I wonder why the Devs didnt realize that.

Looking forward to more whining ugh



Oh riiight, so because of one recon a gnag leader should waste a tackler/cov ops? Too much dont you think? Thats not a CS or BS or Capital my dear.


Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.04.17 08:30:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: TimMc
This. Most recons only fit 2-3 ewar modules, not 6 like the ECM boats.
The other ewar modules work 100% of the time.
Incorrect.

ig rona
Posted - 2009.04.17 08:51:00 - [40]
 

Really, the new falcon has a near perfect design. Being a relatively new toon, I used most of my training time for EW ships and I am absolutely satisfied with what I can fly now. I am exalted about the well-balanced combination of 180km locking and 60km jamming range (which, of course is ship and skill specific, so other pilots might possibly be less lucky guys than I am). My gunnery skills -btw- are so that I shoot myself in the foot if I pull any trigger, so thanks for removing the missile mount point and adding turret mounts instead. This is of course a golden opportunity to spend some additional training time with what obviously always interested me most. Now, that beautiful ship still does not have any tank, but it is not really a problem, because the newly added drone bay space fully compensates for that. So thanks again for the massive amount of additional playing fun Shocked. And, can we please nerf some sniper ships, just for justice. Who does really want to be shot from the distance ?

Leiara Knight
Gallente
The Oblivion Guard
Posted - 2009.04.17 09:26:00 - [41]
 

What shall happen now then? Without the Falcon in battles will both sides lose instead of just one?

ig rona
Posted - 2009.04.17 09:50:00 - [42]
 

No big deal, I suppose. It might just be what you already stated. Battles without Falcons.

Gallente Citizen2515145
Posted - 2009.04.17 09:53:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Gallente Citizen2515145 on 17/04/2009 09:56:24
yeah I pretty much think this was a stupid change. The other EWAR ships needed to have as long of a range as the falcon. It would have been nice to have seen a celestis, or an arazu sitting at 100km's dampening targets. I think it is a mistake for CCP to make the EWAR ships close combat. If CCP would increase the optimal range for the EWAR on the other ships, and increase their effectiveness a little bit, instead of nerf batting the Falcon, I think this would make fleet battles a bit more interesting.

Katarra Cosmos
Posted - 2009.04.17 11:06:00 - [44]
 

I just had to post...

The Falcon is just as effective and there will still be Falcon tears....from those that fly Falcons (because they can't see any different tactic than jamming AFK from 200km), and those that don't fly Falcons (because they are still getting jammmed).

Effective jamming from 90km+ in a Falcon with a buffer tank (a lot more tank than a sniper HAC at the same range) in an organised Falcon wing in an organised fleet is an awesome combination.

If you want to sniper jam, get a Scorpion.

Ilija Veliki
Posted - 2009.04.17 11:49:00 - [45]
 

Nerf Caldari delete Caldari soon there will be no Caldari ships in pvp

n0thing
Executive Intervention
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2009.04.17 12:09:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Ilija Veliki
Nerf Caldari delete Caldari soon there will be no Caldari ships in pvp


So thats why I seen lots of Cerb`s, Kitsunes and other Caldari t2 ships in pvp lately? Oh...must be my imagination

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.04.17 12:19:00 - [47]
 

I was doing pretty well with my Cerb last night - no complaints there; 2 HAC KMs, top damage on a few others. LSE II and keeping the hostiles at 160Km+ range makes for an awesome tank Wink



Looking forward to getting my new Rooks into some action also. And my manticores. Rokh is still vying with the Apoc for best sniper BS. Harpy is still an excellent AF. Drake is a still an excellent battlecruiser.

No Caldari PvP ships? GTFO and fly some, tbh. We even have a solopwnmobile Combat Recon on a par with the Curse now.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.04.17 12:22:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
We even have a solopwnmobile Combat Recon on a par with the Curse now.
I haven't seen them in action yet, but purely based on some preliminary number crunching, I'm expecting some pretty loud OMGZNERFROOK!!1 threads within less than a week… Shocked

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.04.17 12:28:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Malcanis
We even have a solopwnmobile Combat Recon on a par with the Curse now.
I haven't seen them in action yet, but purely based on some preliminary number crunching, I'm expecting some pretty loud OMGZNERFROOK!!1 threads within less than a week… Shocked


Very much so. It can stand off at 120Km, jam AND apply as much DPS as a cerberus with any damage type bar kinetic, or get in close and scram, jam and do even more DPS with a rack of Hobgoblins.

I might almost feel a little guilty at using such an evil ship had it not been for the months of mendacious whines that led to it's creation from the very people who will whine about it now.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.04.17 12:30:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Bilfiz
RIP Falcon

Not worth the trit. i used to build it....

CCP as always f's it up.

Who comes up with this crap.YARRRR!!



I'll give you 2x the trit value for all your falcons, regardless of location. I'll be in game in about 3 hours; set up the contract now and I'll accept as soon as I get in.

X1376
Caldari
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.04.17 12:37:00 - [51]
 

Stop thinking backwards. Falcon is now new ship and bring more options it ever had. Start to think how to use properly the new version in gangs and you will realize how powerful suddenly Falcon become. It is not end of New Eden, it is Caldari recon reborn! We got finally ship able to solo that is not Crow and two perfect gang ships. And I am saying it as Falcon pilot myself.

Thercon Jair
Minmatar
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.04.17 14:12:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: TimMc
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: Amarrbone
Of course the other recons had the ability to fit tanks, have offensive capabilities, etc... But thats why we have the Rook!

You've got it backwards.
The other recons had to fit tanks because they didn't have the luxury of being 150-200km from the fight.


This. Most recons only fit 2-3 ewar modules, not 6 like the ECM boats.


Most recons have a nifty secondary E-War that gave them a good reason to be in fighting range. Fitted purely for Primary EW, they could all operate at 100KM+. They are completely different ships.

Ah fck it what's the point.


Really? How did you get webs to work at 100km and target painters to overcome their short optimal range?
(Yes, I know there's some insane fittings with officer mods and a claymore with full skills and links)

Loveslave Dave
Posted - 2009.04.17 14:41:00 - [53]
 

The falcon change is one of the best thought out balances.

Nerfing range and boosting strength is a genius move.

You see; previously the falcon was pretty well balanced in large scale fleet fights, a large % of the standard fleet makeup could hit the falcon at its max range, other caldari recons could jam em, anyone locking them could force them to cloak, small stuff could get up close and personal amidst the chaos of battle, enterprising probers could quickly get warp in spots on them....all in all it was a pretty good state of affairs.

On the other hand we saw the falcon excel perhaps a little too much in small scale combat, where a couple of falcons could incapacitate almost the entire opposing force (though since it's a less sedentary, more mobile style of combat, said falcons would be sitting somewhere around 100k off, having neither the time nor need to get to 240km), thus becoming de rigeur for all small gangs.

This is a gross simplification of the situation but it illustrates the old state of affairs quite nicely.

Looking at the above situation CCP took a step back and thought "hmm, it seems they're balanced in large scale fleet combat, but overpowering on a small scale"

...which naturally led to....

"I've got it! let's reduce the range while increasing the jam strength!"

In one fell swoop the boffins at CCP solved the problem by adopting the "Kansas City Shuffle" method of game balance; they dummied left, fell right.....and...

nerfed it where it was ok and boosted it where it was too good....

....wait a minute....

ugh

AleRiperKilt
Posted - 2009.04.17 14:41:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: William Hart
I really love the new changes. I mean, look at all these Interdictor balance changes. Now my Sabre is much more fun to fly.


Interdictor changes?, what?, where? Shocked

*reads patch notes*

Don't see no dictor changes, was I just trolled? Rolling Eyes

Cmndr Griff
Viziam
Posted - 2009.04.17 15:01:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: AleRiperKilt
Originally by: William Hart
I really love the new changes. I mean, look at all these Interdictor balance changes. Now my Sabre is much more fun to fly.


Interdictor changes?, what?, where? Shocked

*reads patch notes*

Don't see no dictor changes, was I just trolled? Rolling Eyes


He is referring to the new subsystem that allows for warping when a bubble is deployed or activated I believe. Not that it's a huge problem, how many will solo in a two billion isk T3 ship? If it is another change he means my bad.

Cade Morrigan
Caldari
Posted - 2009.04.17 15:05:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Solid Prefekt
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: TimMc

This. Most recons only fit 2-3 ewar modules, not 6 like the ECM boats.


The other ewar modules work 100% of the time.
The other ewar modules were only partially effective. I would have loved webs that stopped you to 0km/s, had a 90%+ success rate and could do it from 175km away. Wanna trade? I'll give you 100% chance to work where you only stop 60% of their modules from working and you have to do it from 40km max range.

Actually that sounds pretty ****ing sweet.

My only beef with ECM, is if you're going to bring it in tight by cutting range, please let us have some tank; get rid of the Racial versions of the modules and let us script them instead. This way we can have some tank and ECM too. If 8x ECM becomes too powerful in that scenario, then just change the fitting reqs to limit the number of ECMs possible.

Loveslave Dave
Posted - 2009.04.17 15:09:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Cmndr Griff

He is referring to the new subsystem that allows for warping when a bubble is deployed or activated I believe. Not that it's a huge problem, how many will solo in a two billion isk T3 ship? If it is another change he means my bad.


Not on topic but worth pointing out: CCP stated that they want and expect t3 ships to end up costing between the price of a hac and about 300mil (i forget the exact figures). If they reach this price I know several alliances that will just start using these with the hahacan'tcatchmewithyourdedicatedtacklingshipthtcan'tdoanythingelseatall subsystem for their roaming fleets instead of hacs. Seeing fleets of between 20 and a hundred or so of these flying around immune to everything short of manual scrambling will not be an uncommon sight.

(assuming ccp knows wtf they're talking about when it comes to t3 price trend predictions)

lebrata
Hedion University
Posted - 2009.04.17 15:13:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Solid Prefekt
The other ewar modules were only partially effective. I would have loved webs that stopped you to 0km/s, had a 90%+ success rate and could do it from 175km away. Wanna trade? I'll give you 100% chance to work where you only stop 60% of their modules from working and you have to do it from 40km max range.


A web that stopped a ship to 0ms would be a dream for ppl needing to warp when you consider how the warp mechanics work.Laughing

Anyway the systems that needed the boost to ecm range was the damps, TP, and TD not the webs, points and nuets.

Although you can already get a heavy nuet fit that reaches to sniper range.

LiNuXb0y
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2009.04.17 15:19:00 - [59]
 

What was it that all the falcon alts posted when they nerfed speed, damps, webs????

Something like 'adapt or..............'cant think of the last word, anyone care to help me out?

lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
Posted - 2009.04.17 15:23:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: lecrotta on 17/04/2009 15:26:27

Originally by: LiNuXb0y
What was it that all the falcon alts posted when they nerfed speed, damps, webs????

Something like 'adapt or..............'cant think of the last word, anyone care to help me out?


Actually they said "this sucks boost other things nerfing is a crap way to do things", pvpers never want nerfs because they ARE the ones that adapt its the clueless muppets that constantly cry for the nerfs as they need something to blame for their incompetance.


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