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Sophia Catellani
Posted - 2009.04.15 14:33:00 - [1]
 

form the patchnotes:
Quote:
if you are podded and lose implants the client will now adjust skill training time in line with your new attributes making skill training slightly longer. If you lost a rank of a learning skill due to being podded, the client will also take that into consideration and the new attribute level will instantly be applied making training of skills slightly longer.

Patch Notes

i hate CCP!
after the ghost training "fix", now the "spend more ISK for implants"-fix...

this is bull****.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.04.15 14:47:00 - [2]
 

Unsurprising and more logical.

Dark Soldat
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.04.15 14:53:00 - [3]
 

FAKEN <insert rage talk here>

Sol'Kanar
Private Nuisance
Segregati0n
Posted - 2009.04.15 15:03:00 - [4]
 

OMG HOW DARE THEY DO SOMETHING THAT MAKES SENSE.

jrt224
Posted - 2009.04.15 15:41:00 - [5]
 

ok i never saw anything that made implants cost more i just saw them making it logical that once you loose you implants you loose the benefits of having implants... make prefect sense u remove 2 GB of RAM from your computer is you computer going to go the same speed for 2 days??

and yea CCP fixing a bug... those asses how dare they make the game logical!!

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.04.15 17:27:00 - [6]
 

Ah well it was good while it lasted

Grista
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2009.04.15 18:11:00 - [7]
 

At least I don't have to start training a long skill before large fleet battles anymore.

Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
Posted - 2009.04.15 19:14:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 15/04/2009 19:16:29
Originally by: jrt224
ok i never saw anything that made implants cost more


If you start training a long skill before entering combat where you may be podded, the long skill continues to train if your pod pops, giving you time to acquire replacement implants before you actually need them again, for the next skill to train.

So this is another isk sink. Implants lost to combat will need to be replaced sooner. That's why it will cost more.

It's not a bug, either. Since game launch in 2003, the code around skill training merely set a flag that skill X will finish training at time Z. This time was computed using the character attributes at the time the skill was started. This allowed for things like ghost training. The skill training "process" server-side was merely a flag and a date in the database. No work needed to be done, merely the passage of time allowed a skill to complete.

Last year, they redesigned the server-side code for skill training so that ghost training doesn't happen anymore. The server actually has to do some work managing skill training now. It wasn't a bug fix any more than adding T3 ships was a bug fix. This is a new design and a new feature, just like wormholes.


Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.04.15 19:36:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 15/04/2009 19:37:00
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
So this is another isk sink.
Depends how the implants are created.
Quote:
Implants lost to combat will need to be replaced sooner. That's why it will cost more.
No, being repeatedly podded will cost more — the implants will not (well, except for perhaps higher demand which drives the prices up and if you only buy them from the market).
Quote:
It's not a bug, either. Since game launch in 2003 […]
Just because it worked in a particular way before doesn't mean it's not a bug — by that definition, every newly released program is bug-free since it has always worked the way it does (even if it happens to not work at all).

It is a bug if the designers say "this is not how feature X is intended to work". The EVE designers are now saying "this is not how implant loss is intended to work" — thus, a bug. Claiming previous implementation makes it a non-bug doesn't work either: it may exist as a bug because of that previous implementation — that doesn't mean that the bug itself is meant to exist. A redesign to solve bugs is not an addition — it's a replacement of a designed that was flawed.

Ami Nia
Posted - 2009.04.15 23:12:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Guillame Herschel
If you start training a long skill before entering combat where you may be podded, the long skill continues to train if your pod pops, giving you time to acquire replacement implants before you actually need them again, for the next skill to train.
This is what is going to change. You used to start a long skill so that it kept training as if you had the implant even after the implant was destroyed with your pod. Now that trick would not work any more: after being podded the skill will revert to training at the non-augmented rate. Therefore if you want to benefit from the boost you will now need to replace the implant immediatelly instead of being able to wait till the end of currently training skill level.

Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
Posted - 2009.04.16 00:43:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 16/04/2009 00:43:47
Originally by: Tippia

Originally by: Guillame Herschel
It's not a bug, either. Since game launch in 2003 []
Just because it worked in a particular way before doesn't mean it's not a bug


You're right. But in this case, it is not a bug. It is a design change. They used to regard it as a feature. It was intended. It was documented in the old User Guide. But they changed their mind. It is not a bug.



Caelum Mortuos
Gallente
Zero G Research and Development
Posted - 2009.04.16 01:28:00 - [12]
 

A lot of pvp players would set a long skill, and then once they were podded they'd just pod themselves to get around, that wont happen as much now

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.04.16 03:01:00 - [13]
 

Sorry, I have to agree with CCP with this change. Why should you continue to gain the benefit of equipment you no longer have? By that logic, my pod should do the same damage as whatever ship I was flying when I got ejected.

Jeneral Jane
Blood Money Inc.
Posted - 2009.04.16 03:13:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Jeneral Jane on 16/04/2009 03:13:24
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Sorry, I have to agree with CCP with this change. Why should you continue to gain the benefit of equipment you no longer have?

+1 Cool


Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.04.16 07:48:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 16/04/2009 07:53:42
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Originally by: Tippia
Just because it worked in a particular way before doesn't mean it's not a bug
You're right. But in this case, it is not a bug. It is a design change. They used to regard it as a feature.
You mean the user guide that wasn't written by CCP?
The user guide that only described how the game actually worked, not how CCP intended it to work?

Yes, people tried that argument with ghost training and it didn't hold any water then either for exactly those reasons: the game guide explains the game — not the design intent — for the simple reason that those who write the guides have no access to the design documents. Over and over back when ghost training was being disabled, I asked people to produce actual statements from the CCP dev team that showed that it was "a selling point" and "an intentional feature", as they were quick to claim. No-one ever could.

In that vein, if you can provide some documentation that benefitting from stuff you no longer had was an intended design choice, then you might have a case. My guess is you can't, so you don't. As convenient as it was, the bonus from non-existing implants was a bug, and now it got fixed to work in a logical way.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.04.16 08:04:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Caelum Mortuos
A lot of pvp players would set a long skill, and then once they were podded they'd just pod themselves to get around, that wont happen as much now


Yeah that was kind of conveinient, or at any rate something of a consolation.

Meh, whatever, +4s are cheap now. 35-40M to replace those isn't so important when you've just lost a 100M HAC with 60M+ fittings & rigs.

Elain Reverse
Caldari
Shokei
Posted - 2009.04.16 16:57:00 - [17]
 

On one hand i would agree with this, but on other hand its 99% time podkill due issue on CCP side (ie lags).
So basically this is another penalty for fleet battles and only thing what will this step succeed in is less ppl in 0.0 and lowsec and more ppl sitting in Jita/hubs.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.04.16 17:14:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Elain Reverse
On one hand i would agree with this, but on other hand its 99% time podkill due issue on CCP side (ie lags).


Got proof?

4 LOM
Serenus Legion
Posted - 2009.04.16 17:53:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Guillame Herschel

So this is another isk sink. Implants lost to combat will need to be replaced sooner. That's why it will cost more.



Well if it is just another isk sink, then i welcome it... we need more.

Proving why a change was a good idea in your post about how its a bad idea is very amusing to me.

Mohenna
Caldari
Knights of the Dark
Posted - 2009.04.20 12:35:00 - [20]
 

Who wants to bet? Next nerf will be to +3s... Shocked +3 implant, cybernetics III. Shocked

endaler
Posted - 2009.04.20 12:42:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Elain Reverse
On one hand i would agree with this, but on other hand its 99% time podkill due issue on CCP side (ie lags).


Got proof?


If your ship gets killed, you cannot click anything for about what... 4 seconds? due to lag. if you start spamming the warp button too late (like when your ship is already exploding, or has exploded) you will get podded

Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.04.20 19:04:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Mohenna
Who wants to bet? Next nerf will be to +3s... Shocked +3 implant, cybernetics III. Shocked

Oh noes a couple of hours of training to use +3 implants. How will we ever cope? Crying or Very sad

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.04.21 09:12:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: endaler
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Elain Reverse
On one hand i would agree with this, but on other hand its 99% time podkill due issue on CCP side (ie lags).


Got proof?


If your ship gets killed, you cannot click anything for about what... 4 seconds? due to lag. if you start spamming the warp button too late (like when your ship is already exploding, or has exploded) you will get podded


Then you got podded because you left it too late.

endaler
Posted - 2009.04.21 13:16:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: endaler
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Elain Reverse
On one hand i would agree with this, but on other hand its 99% time podkill due issue on CCP side (ie lags).


Got proof?


If your ship gets killed, you cannot click anything for about what... 4 seconds? due to lag. if you start spamming the warp button too late (like when your ship is already exploding, or has exploded) you will get podded


Then you got podded because you left it too late.


Left it too late? left what too late? my ship? Laughing, if you eject before you pop, they can stop shooting and just take the ship Cool

endaler
Posted - 2009.04.21 13:17:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: endaler on 21/04/2009 13:17:32
How did this get here twice Rolling Eyes

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.04.21 13:40:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: endaler


Left it too late? left what too late? my ship? Laughing, if you eject before you pop, they can stop shooting and just take the ship Cool


Start spamming the warp button when you are deep in structure. Your pod will instawarp when your ship blows up unless you're bubbled or have been smartbombed, or unless the lag is extreme (several hundred fighting in the same system)

endaler
Posted - 2009.04.22 17:06:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: endaler


Left it too late? left what too late? my ship? Laughing, if you eject before you pop, they can stop shooting and just take the ship Cool


Start spamming the warp button when you are deep in structure. Your pod will instawarp when your ship blows up unless you're bubbled or have been smartbombed, or unless the lag is extreme (several hundred fighting in the same system)

Yes that is the only way to get your pod out, but if you start too late, and you try to warp your pod out, you can't cuz of the lag.

Liquidium
Divine Retribution
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.04.22 19:46:00 - [28]
 

I very rarely ever die in a Pod. You guys need to learn how to prepare to lose your 150-300m ship and save your pod.

+3s are dirt cheap. +4s arent much more expensive either.

Tbh Id rather lose my pod and implants then my Commandship or HAC.

NoNah
Posted - 2009.04.22 20:26:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: NoNah on 22/04/2009 20:26:59
I call... old!


Originally by: Liquidium
I very rarely ever die in a Pod. You guys need to learn how to prepare to lose your 150-300m ship and save your pod.

+3s are dirt cheap. +4s arent much more expensive either.

Tbh Id rather lose my pod and implants then my Commandship or HAC.


Might want to consider the impact of continous pvping outside of empire and with more expensive implants than that.

Jaabaa
Minmatar
Dental Drilling Corporation
Posted - 2009.04.22 21:19:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Sophia Catellani
form the patchnotes:
Quote:
if you are podded and lose implants the client will now adjust skill training time in line with your new attributes making skill training slightly longer. If you lost a rank of a learning skill due to being podded, the client will also take that into consideration and the new attribute level will instantly be applied making training of skills slightly longer.

Patch Notes

i hate CCP!
after the ghost training "fix", now the "spend more ISK for implants"-fix...

this is bull****.

Grow up, you knew that this was strange at the very least (getting a bonus from implants that you lost 2 weeks ago) or a bug at best (this can't be real).

They fixed it, same as the ghost training, get over it and grow a pair.


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