open All Channels
seplocked Features and Ideas Discussion
blankseplocked Suggestion: remove the % chance from salvaging.
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

La Jefature
Posted - 2009.03.28 13:03:00 - [1]
 

It really servers no purpose. I suggest making it 100% effective, and increase the time, so higher skill levels will lower the salvage time (as well as salvagers II). Increase it to 30 seconds, and lowered to 10 sec with skills and such.

Why? because there is no point to it being % based. If you fail salvaging, there is nothing lost, you simply try again, and again, and again, until you get it. So you already have a 100% chance to salvage, all you get with the % base is a chance to WASTE TIME. Yup, waste time. Not even invest time, since salvaging for longer does not get more loot. Just waste time.

% base makes sense for some skills, like inventing, since you lose some items if you fail, so yeah, increasing % makes sense. But not for a skill that where you lose nothing. Change % to time, and it would make better sense.

Metalcali
Posted - 2009.03.28 14:02:00 - [2]
 

And what if you are trying to salvage it before someone else? Make it a time system just means people would be upset that others who trained it to 5 got the ship first and they would want something done about that, and so on. It's fine as is and if you want it faster, train it higher and maybe get a rig and/or implant to help you.

La Jefature
Posted - 2009.03.28 14:14:00 - [3]
 

If they find your mission spot and start salvaging your stuff, you are screwed anyway. Regardless whether they or you have lvl V in all skills or not. You cannot salvage all the wrecks at the same time you know.

The idea is to remove the:

Salvage failed
Salvage failed
Salvage failed
Salvage failed
Salvage failed
Salvage failed
Salvage failed
Salvage failed
Salvage failed
Salvage failed
Salvage failed
Salvage failed
Salvage failed
Salvage succedeed!! but EVE hates you, so here, have some scrap metal

You already have a 100% chance to salvage (since you can try all night), all I want is to remove the time waste that the failed salvage introduces. It is not a time sink, it is a time waste. In a time sink, you put time in it, and get something for it (usually equivalent to the time invested). But that is not how the current salvage system works.

Lemurianus
Posted - 2009.03.28 14:46:00 - [4]
 

I agree.

Fyzikz
Amarr
Posted - 2009.03.28 16:46:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Fyzikz on 28/03/2009 16:46:39
Originally by: La Jefature
It really servers no purpose. I suggest making it 100% effective, and increase the time, so higher skill levels will lower the salvage time (as well as salvagers II). Increase it to 30 seconds, and lowered to 10 sec with skills and such.

Why? because there is no point to it being % based. If you fail salvaging, there is nothing lost, you simply try again, and again, and again, until you get it. So you already have a 100% chance to salvage, all you get with the % base is a chance to WASTE TIME. Yup, waste time. Not even invest time, since salvaging for longer does not get more loot. Just waste time.

% base makes sense for some skills, like inventing, since you lose some items if you fail, so yeah, increasing % makes sense. But not for a skill that where you lose nothing. Change % to time, and it would make better sense.


awww... /cry.. not like it takes that long to salvage with only salvage 1 trained anyway... easiest lowest risk profession in eve.. deal with the minor annoyance.

Insa Rexion
Minmatar
Fumar Puede Matar
Posted - 2009.03.28 16:46:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: La Jefature
If they find your mission spot and start salvaging your stuff, you are screwed anyway. Regardless whether they or you have lvl V in all skills or not. You cannot salvage all the wrecks at the same time you know.

The idea is to remove the:

Salvage failed
Salvage failed
Salvage failed
Salvage failed
Salvage failed
Salvage failed
Salvage failed
Salvage failed
Salvage failed
Salvage failed
Salvage failed
Salvage failed
Salvage failed
Salvage succedeed!! but EVE hates you, so here, have some scrap metal

You already have a 100% chance to salvage (since you can try all night), all I want is to remove the time waste that the failed salvage introduces. It is not a time sink, it is a time waste. In a time sink, you put time in it, and get something for it (usually equivalent to the time invested). But that is not how the current salvage system works.


from a ninja perspective i agree with you 100%, endless failed msgs are exceptionally dull and unenjoyable. This change would benefit all...Mission runners and ninjas...do it.

Valandril
Caldari
Ex-Mortis
Posted - 2009.03.28 16:49:00 - [7]
 

Finaly idea i can agree with even tho i don't salvage, i used to do it a bit and i know how big PITA it is.

La Jefature
Posted - 2009.03.28 16:49:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Fyzikz
Originally by: La Jefature
It really servers no purpose. I suggest making it 100% effective, and increase the time, so higher skill levels will lower the salvage time (as well as salvagers II). Increase it to 30 seconds, and lowered to 10 sec with skills and such.

Why? because there is no point to it being % based. If you fail salvaging, there is nothing lost, you simply try again, and again, and again, until you get it. So you already have a 100% chance to salvage, all you get with the % base is a chance to WASTE TIME. Yup, waste time. Not even invest time, since salvaging for longer does not get more loot. Just waste time.

% base makes sense for some skills, like inventing, since you lose some items if you fail, so yeah, increasing % makes sense. But not for a skill that where you lose nothing. Change % to time, and it would make better sense.


wha.. not like it takes that long to salvage with only salvage 1 trained anyway... easiest lowest risk profession in eve.. deal with the minor annoyance.


And that is what this suggestion is about. To remove a minor annoyance. I'm not saying it is game breaking, it is simple an unnecessary annoyance. Games should not be annoying.

Fyzikz
Amarr
Posted - 2009.03.28 16:52:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Fyzikz on 28/03/2009 16:52:49
Originally by: La Jefature
Originally by: Fyzikz
Originally by: La Jefature
It really servers no purpose. I suggest making it 100% effective, and increase the time, so higher skill levels will lower the salvage time (as well as salvagers II). Increase it to 30 seconds, and lowered to 10 sec with skills and such.

Why? because there is no point to it being % based. If you fail salvaging, there is nothing lost, you simply try again, and again, and again, until you get it. So you already have a 100% chance to salvage, all you get with the % base is a chance to WASTE TIME. Yup, waste time. Not even invest time, since salvaging for longer does not get more loot. Just waste time.

% base makes sense for some skills, like inventing, since you lose some items if you fail, so yeah, increasing % makes sense. But not for a skill that where you lose nothing. Change % to time, and it would make better sense.


wha.. not like it takes that long to salvage with only salvage 1 trained anyway... easiest lowest risk profession in eve.. deal with the minor annoyance.


And that is what this suggestion is about. To remove a minor annoyance. I'm not saying it is game breaking, it is simple an unnecessary annoyance. Games should not be annoying.


I find salvagers to be the annoying roaches of Eve, with your logic I shouldn't have to deal with them, since I find them to be a major annoyance.

La Jefature
Posted - 2009.03.28 16:56:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Fyzikz
Edited by: Fyzikz on 28/03/2009 16:52:49
Originally by: La Jefature
Originally by: Fyzikz
Originally by: La Jefature
It really servers no purpose. I suggest making it 100% effective, and increase the time, so higher skill levels will lower the salvage time (as well as salvagers II). Increase it to 30 seconds, and lowered to 10 sec with skills and such.

Why? because there is no point to it being % based. If you fail salvaging, there is nothing lost, you simply try again, and again, and again, until you get it. So you already have a 100% chance to salvage, all you get with the % base is a chance to WASTE TIME. Yup, waste time. Not even invest time, since salvaging for longer does not get more loot. Just waste time.

% base makes sense for some skills, like inventing, since you lose some items if you fail, so yeah, increasing % makes sense. But not for a skill that where you lose nothing. Change % to time, and it would make better sense.


wha.. not like it takes that long to salvage with only salvage 1 trained anyway... easiest lowest risk profession in eve.. deal with the minor annoyance.


And that is what this suggestion is about. To remove a minor annoyance. I'm not saying it is game breaking, it is simple an unnecessary annoyance. Games should not be annoying.


I find salvagers to be the annoying roaches of Eve, with your logic I shouldn't have to deal with them, since I find them to be a major annoyance.


Then don't salvage nobody is forcing you to.

Yeah, you could tell me the same thing, but I like making my own rigs, and the money from salvaging is good.

Again, the suggestion is to remove an unnecessary annoyance. If you want to refute the idea, then please explain why a % chance to salvage is needed over a time based salvaging. What does it add to the the gameplay, or what does it balance.

Fyzikz
Amarr
Posted - 2009.03.28 17:04:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: La Jefature


Then don't salvage nobody is forcing you to.

Yeah, you could tell me the same thing, but I like making my own rigs, and the money from salvaging is good.

Again, the suggestion is to remove an unnecessary annoyance. If you want to refute the idea, then please explain why a % chance to salvage is needed over a time based salvaging. What does it add to the the gameplay, or what does it balance.


I do salvage my own missions which is why I find salvagers to be roaches.. I wish I had a big flashlight on the front of my ship to make them go away and stop salvaging the wrecks I spent my time making.

The percent chance is required to make it an active not a bot profession it adds time to salvaging and places a randomness to that time.

Really your asking for developer time to fix something that is in essence a minor annoyance to you when their are actual bugs (not the salvager type) out there that really need to be fixed.

La Jefature
Posted - 2009.03.28 17:15:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Fyzikz
Originally by: La Jefature


Then don't salvage nobody is forcing you to.

Yeah, you could tell me the same thing, but I like making my own rigs, and the money from salvaging is good.

Again, the suggestion is to remove an unnecessary annoyance. If you want to refute the idea, then please explain why a % chance to salvage is needed over a time based salvaging. What does it add to the the gameplay, or what does it balance.


I do salvage my own missions which is why I find salvagers to be roaches.. I wish I had a big flashlight on the front of my ship to make them go away and stop salvaging the wrecks I spent my time making.

The percent chance is required to make it an active not a bot profession it adds time to salvaging and places a randomness to that time.

Really your asking for developer time to fix something that is in essence a minor annoyance to you when their are actual bugs (not the salvager type) out there that really need to be fixed.


I'll have to disagree. The % does not make it active, it is still automatic (you turn on the salvager mod and... well... wait), it just adds time to it. Time that is wasted because it does not improve the loot the longer you salvage, it does not do anything additional other than waste time.

I'm not saying that devs should take time off bug-fixing, but with these games, they usually handle bugs and improvements at the same time (if they wait for all bugs to die, the game would never change). So something for the devs to think about.

Metalcali
Posted - 2009.03.28 17:59:00 - [13]
 

Very simple way to fix this. Either you fly with another person (gasp, talking to other people!?) who flies a destroyer with two tractor beams and 6 salvagers to salvage everything as you destroy them, or you kill everything then fly back immediately with your own copy of that destroyer and use three salvagers per destroyed ship, thus speeding up the process that doesn't take that long to begin with. Try experimenting with the game and different ways to achieve your goal before saying things need to be made easier for you because you don't want to wait a few extra seconds.

Valandril
Caldari
Ex-Mortis
Posted - 2009.03.28 18:44:00 - [14]
 

Lol ppl jumping over theyr heads just to flame on this idea while it is acutaly... good. All this "% chance" is doing is only taking more time on somehting dumb and mindless. I understand that npc must take time so we can test your tank, i understand that mining must take time because you earn money over this time, but there is no reason why you must sit 1m at one wreck (with bad luck even longer) instead getting salvage after one cycle.
Or is there ?

La Jefature
Posted - 2009.03.28 19:12:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: La Jefature on 28/03/2009 19:13:26
Originally by: Metalcali
Very simple way to fix this. Either you fly with another person (gasp, talking to other people!?) who flies a destroyer with two tractor beams and 6 salvagers to salvage everything as you destroy them, or you kill everything then fly back immediately with your own copy of that destroyer and use three salvagers per destroyed ship, thus speeding up the process that doesn't take that long to begin with. Try experimenting with the game and different ways to achieve your goal before saying things need to be made easier for you because you don't want to wait a few extra seconds.


Of course, why should I be annoyed myself when I can bring a friend and BORE HIM OUT OF HIS MIND TOO!!!

Did you even read the suggestion? No one is asking for salvaging to be any easier, it cannot be any easier. What I'm asking is to remove a pointless time waste in the current system. The system takes additional, un-needed time, and gives nothing back for that time invested.

A few extra annoying seconds are just that, annoying, and that is what I'm proposing to remove. A game should not be annoying... I know, novel idea, but try to wrap your mind about it.

Edit: And yes, I do have a dedicated salvaging ship. It does not make it any less annoying. to see all the "Salvage failed" messages.

Fullmetal Jackass
Posted - 2009.03.28 19:48:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Metalcali
Very simple way to fix this. Either you fly with another person (gasp, talking to other people!?) who flies a destroyer with two tractor beams and 6 salvagers to salvage everything as you destroy them, or you kill everything then fly back immediately with your own copy of that destroyer and use three salvagers per destroyed ship, thus speeding up the process that doesn't take that long to begin with. Try experimenting with the game and different ways to achieve your goal before saying things need to be made easier for you because you don't want to wait a few extra seconds.


Or you run 2+ accounts at once. Eve isn't as multi player as some of you seem to think.

I'm not really keen on the OP's idea. The system as it is now seems to work just fine. I've got the salvage skill to 4, I use a destroyer with 4 tractors and 4 salvagers. I usually put 2 salvagers on a wreck and it almost always succeeds on the first cycle. I can put one one each on 4 wrecks and it still finishes them all off in within 3 cycles usually. I don't really see a problem here.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.03.28 19:49:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 28/03/2009 19:49:43
Why is this an issue?

The end result is the same-With low skills, you take a longer time to salvage. If you hate seeing failure messages, train Salvaging up/get Salvager IIs/fit salvage tackles

La Jefature
Posted - 2009.03.28 19:56:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass

Or you run 2+ accounts at once. Eve isn't as multi player as some of you seem to think.

I'm not really keen on the OP's idea. The system as it is now seems to work just fine. I've got the salvage skill to 4, I use a destroyer with 4 tractors and 4 salvagers. I usually put 2 salvagers on a wreck and it almost always succeeds on the first cycle. I can put one one each on 4 wrecks and it still finishes them all off in within 3 cycles usually. I don't really see a problem here.


Hi Fullmetal, yeah you are right, this is not a problem, just a slight annoyance, and a bit of time that seems wasted for no reason. The system works, but it could work better.

Also, think of all the Marauder pilots that will be happier with this change :)

La Jefature
Posted - 2009.03.28 19:58:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 28/03/2009 19:49:43
Why is this an issue?

The end result is the same-With low skills, you take a longer time to salvage. If you hate seeing failure messages, train Salvaging up/get Salvager IIs/fit salvage tackles


No it's not. I guess you've never had a wreck that takes 2 mins to salvage due to failures? Even with high skills and salvagers II your change to salvage is still quite low.

It's not even close to being the same.

Fullmetal Jackass
Posted - 2009.03.28 20:09:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: La Jefature
Hi Fullmetal, yeah you are right, this is not a problem, just a slight annoyance, and a bit of time that seems wasted for no reason. The system works, but it could work better.

Also, think of all the Marauder pilots that will be happier with this change :)


Hey, if you can get ccp to change it, more power to you.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.03.29 04:38:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 29/03/2009 04:38:23
Quote:

No it's not. I guess you've never had a wreck that takes 2 mins to salvage due to failures? Even with high skills and salvagers II your change to salvage is still quite low.

It's not even close to being the same.


No, I've never had that. I've had it take about 40 seconds, because at the time I didn't have great salvage skills, nor did I have Salvager IIs, or salvage tackles. That's because faction/t2 wrecks have a -10% difficulty bonus, meaning with Salvaging III and t1 salvagers, you only have a 5% chance per cycle...yes, if this is true then it will take a ****load of time, but there's nothing wrong with that.

With salvage V and T2 salvagers, and no salvage tackles, there's a 25% chance per cycle. With a cycle of each salvager every 10 seconds, there's no way it would take 2 mins.

The only time it would take 2 mins is if it was, as I said, a faction or t2 wreck and you had **** salvage skills...and I'd argue that if you had **** salvage skills, then it SHOULD take 2 minutes to salvage.


Also, this would mean that there is no point to having more than one or -maybe- two salvagers per ship...meaning that specialized salvage ships take a big hit.

Metalcali
Posted - 2009.03.29 04:54:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Metalcali on 29/03/2009 04:56:47
Originally by: La Jefature
Edited by: La Jefature on 28/03/2009 19:13:26
Originally by: Metalcali
Very simple way to fix this. Either you fly with another person (gasp, talking to other people!?) who flies a destroyer with two tractor beams and 6 salvagers to salvage everything as you destroy them, or you kill everything then fly back immediately with your own copy of that destroyer and use three salvagers per destroyed ship, thus speeding up the process that doesn't take that long to begin with. Try experimenting with the game and different ways to achieve your goal before saying things need to be made easier for you because you don't want to wait a few extra seconds.


Of course, why should I be annoyed myself when I can bring a friend and BORE HIM OUT OF HIS MIND TOO!!!

Did you even read the suggestion? No one is asking for salvaging to be any easier, it cannot be any easier. What I'm asking is to remove a pointless time waste in the current system. The system takes additional, un-needed time, and gives nothing back for that time invested.

A few extra annoying seconds are just that, annoying, and that is what I'm proposing to remove. A game should not be annoying... I know, novel idea, but try to wrap your mind about it.

Edit: And yes, I do have a dedicated salvaging ship. It does not make it any less annoying. to see all the "Salvage failed" messages.

Sounds like the problem here then is you need to train your salvaging skill up a little more than as mine is at 3 and cleaning up missions, if I decide too, is a breeze. And if you are boring a friend, why not try making conversation when out with them, you don't have to be a bore.
Funny how FullMetal says this is working properly yet complains that other things aren't when deemed they are working properly Laughing

Edit: Forgot to add, this game is easy to interact with people if you can be sociable and stop the "living in basement loner" syndrome. Try being somewhat nice and you can get pretty far.

Khalia Nestune
Mad Stacks
Posted - 2009.03.29 11:38:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Kahega Amielden


Also, this would mean that there is no point to having more than one or -maybe- two salvagers per ship...meaning that specialized salvage ships take a big hit.


Bingo, this is exactly the reason the suggestion (while good in spirit), will not work.

4x Salvager I w/ skill Salvage I = 5% + 4.75% + 4.5% + 4.28% = 18.53% per cycle for success. Salvager I cycle time is 10 seconds. You could go for a very long time before you get success; but more likely you'll definitely get it by the time you hit 100% cumulative, or around 5-6 cycles.

This doesn't map to time-based cycling. Say a Salvager I w/ Salvage I gives you 100% chance to get it, at the end of 30 seconds. What value do I get by having two or more (other than targeting multiple wrecks)? Not a bit.

The only way you'd benefit here is ALSO if multiple Salvagers on a target would decrease the entire time to salvage.


 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only