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blankseplocked Enough With The Skills Already
 
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Jericho Ronin
Posted - 2004.08.18 03:29:00 - [1]
 

I have no idea wtf the devs are thinking but there are already enough skills in this game as well as enough training time to get those skills where they need to be. As it stands now it takes what 30 years to train the current skills up and you guys want to add more? Enough Already. 30 years from now I will be dead and buried and EVE will be about 20 something years into my ancient history.

You have hybrid skills, small, medium and Large. Now you have Hybrid SPecialization skills, small, medium and large all of which need the former to train the latter. Ffs isn't this alittle much? Then I'm sure you are going to do it with all the other weps types too. I haven't figured it out but we are talking months of training.

I don't know what you are thinking or even if you are. It seems everything in this game that is tedious you guys want to make even moreso. MWD's have huge penalties...so you are forced to drag ur butt slow to gates. Mining burns up cap so it takes longer. SKills to do anything take months. It is obsene that any skill should take 40 days to train one level. This is a huge weakness in this game.

Sorry to break this to you but I'm gonna be on to other things long before these skills train up. This is a good game but not good enough to keep anyones attention for 30 years! Oh I forgot you're going to add yet more learning skills to make it go faster...whoo hoo what an idea.

Paw Sandberg
Gallente
Quantum Industries
Prime Orbital Systems
Posted - 2004.08.18 03:39:00 - [2]
 

I had (almost) all the skills in the game when my computer went down (about 3 months ago) so yeah more is better

I admit i am a jack of all trades i got Iteron 5,PE 5,BS 5 and refining 4 (among them)

i also got alot of low lvl skills and when i get a decent computer again (hopefully before Shiva) there will be new skills ingame for me to buy up the good news is many of those skills i can not use because they have prereqs that are to high for me this means specilyzing (bad spelling) i personally hope that eventually i will be forced to chose a profession and thats why again more is better

think about it in RL no one can do everything why should you be able to in EVE QuestionQuestion

Armin Chamberlain
Posted - 2004.08.18 03:59:00 - [3]
 

The more, the merrier! And its not like you HAVE to train all the skills. Just choose whichever you like, if its too much, just leave them aside, why bother?

Qwertyifshag
Q's Corp
Posted - 2004.08.18 04:20:00 - [4]
 

Adding more skills adds to even more diversity and specialization Very Happy

LONG LIVE UBER CAREBEARS


Kel Shek
Posted - 2004.08.18 04:57:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Kel Shek on 18/08/2004 04:58:54
personally I LOVE it. I think its fantastic that things are going as they are.

you should NOT be able to REALLY specialize in everything.

I think eventually it should get to a point that "this is my ship. I fly a ____" not every ship being a stepping stone to the next bigger one, or whatever.

I think that except in extreme cases, if you really properly learn your ship, you should end up having the player skill, as well as the knowlege of the game, to adapt to practically any nerf.

Quote:
I don't know what you are thinking or even if you are. It seems everything in this game that is tedious you guys want to make even moreso.
this game you can't do everything as extremely well as someone who works heavily on one field, spending the same amount of training time. deal.

right now I have a bit under 3M SP, I just got in a BS a few days ago, and I'm training for the large guns right now.

see... the way I see it, and I think this is very deliberate on their view... you work up from essentially nothing, to having frigates, then cruisers, then, possibly, eventually BS's. then you pop back down to special frigates. using these ships (any of the special frigs) taking more training time, and more player skill and knowlege of the game, than a newb would have. the guns expand this concept further, you advance from a BS into an inty, assault frig, or covert ops frig, or bomber, whatever, as your play style would have it. you train further in this path, to use the appropriately advanced guns. then, you'll eventually step up to the tech 2 cruisers. and train the better guns for THAT, if you take it step by step like this, I think it becomes clear that the seemingly obscene prereq's for assault ships and tech 2 guns... aren't THAT bad. anymoreso than large guns seem insanely hard to get to, when your in your first frig

I think how this is done, is absolutely beautiful. personally I figure after I get my large guns, and my second BS(in a Dominix now) I'll be getting into research... which coincidentally will solve 2/3 of the prereqs for assault frigs I don't have right now. then 2 weeks of training, and bam, I can get in an assault frig... ect.

I think the flow that they are doing is fantastic. could some parts of it work out more smoothly if it was all in as yo ugot to it? DEFINITELY. I find myself lucky in that these things will liklely mostly be out before I catch up to them. though I figure I'll be budding on sitting in a tech 2 cruiser, a good while before there are tech 2 BS's.

thats MY approach, at least.

MWD's aren't THAT bad. and how much of the time are you going to need heavy speed, AND the things that 2 MWD's would take from you? even my dominix can hit jump gates pretty quick when I throw 2 100mn MWD's on it. (courier mission loadout)

and 1 MWD makes it fast enough for usual getting around.

Quote:
Mining burns up cap so it takes longer.
you get over this quick, I think... skills help, and you start habitually fitting things when you do mining, that keep it from being a problem.

Quote:
It is obsene that any skill should take 40 days to train one level. This is a huge weakness in this game.

the things that do though, are for the most extreme uses... I don't see it as a problem.

Quote:
This is a good game but not good enough to keep anyones attention for 30 years!
why train everything? for example 2/3 of the gunnery skills, about, I have no interest whatsoever in training in. I'm quite happy with my Railguns and Blasters, I think minm ships are fugly and awkward, and something just bugs me about amarr ships and lasers. (which is weird, in games like mechwarrior I was a total laser *****) bam, all those skills are off the list. same with MOST of the piloting skills, right now on Gallente I'm at frig 4, cruiser 4, BS 2. and I have level 3 of all the other frigs. I have CONSIDERED getting Caldari cruiser. but I really see no point, and I doubt I'll train much further on any of the other races's piloting skills. another big chunk of skills not on the list.

follow where I'm going here? you don't have to train everything. and I'm an all arounder myself, but its just ALOT easier, even if you are an all arounder, to cut a few things off the list, makes it alot less intimidating.

I currently, at almost 3M SP, have, at level 5... Drones, Refining, Learning,.... and I'm working on Gunnery 5. I think thats it. I have almost 90 skills total.... my suggestion is to not worry about training everything, have fun with where you are in the game. not having large guns does not stop me from hunting in my BS(I don't leave empire with it.... but I can still blow things up) and it doesn't kill me to not be able to fly non-gallente cruisers, and I don't plan on ever flying a non-Gallente BS. I simply see no reason to. (I can forsee doing caldari cruiser though)

Vega Con'Dios
Posted - 2004.08.18 05:28:00 - [6]
 

Umm... no duh, CCP makes money when you log on... and they need to keep you training to keep playing. Just like the r&d agents... they are there to get you to login every day.

CCP is smart... is all business and money to them.

the truth hurts, doesnt it?

Jericho Ronin
Posted - 2004.08.18 05:39:00 - [7]
 

Ok, well let me know how you feel 6 months from now. Because in that time, while you are training your Gallente BS skills and training your blaster skills and devoting everything to specializing in that, CCP will change the flow of the game again. Let me know how brilliant you think they are then, because they have done stuff like that before, leaving people dangling in the breeze, so chances are they are going to do it again.

I've got 10M skill points and have most of those skills at level 4. To train just BS and Large Hybrid to level 5 is 63 days. That's ridiculous. So extrapolate that out and thats 1 skill a month, 12 a year. The new skills require you to have these at level 5 before you can train them, some skills require you have more than one at level 5 to train them. We don't even know the rank of some of these new skills, so it could take several months or longer just to train up to one new skill.

My point is simply this. There is no reason for one skill to take 39 days to train. There is even less reason to have a new skill require you have one or more of these long training skills at level 5, taking months. Then if these are high ranked skills they themselves could take months to train once you have the prerequisites. So it could take a year just to train one new skill and that is crap. They (CCP) need to bring their skill expectation down from 50 years to 10 years, cuz no one is going to be here for either.

Jericho Ronin
Posted - 2004.08.18 05:42:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Vega Con'Dios
Umm... no duh, CCP makes money when you log on... and they need to keep you training to keep playing. Just like the r&d agents... they are there to get you to login every day.

CCP is smart... is all business and money to them.

the truth hurts, doesnt it?


Truth is that people will leave the game when they are bored regardless of how tedious they make it. In my case the tedium just adds to my boredom which will cause me to leave.

All these games are about money...that's the truth.


T'Rana
Caldari
Elite United Corp
Posted - 2004.08.18 06:12:00 - [9]
 

Quote:
All these games are about money...that's the truth.


Well duh, of course the game is all about money. CCP don't make this game for the fun of it. They make this game so they can earn a living and profits so they can go on to make more games and even more profit.

When this game started I tried to be an all rounder and grabbed any skill I could lay my hands on. At the moment I will have reached 15mil skill points in the next few days and have about 126 skills with about 24 of them being at lvl5. But I am finding it increasingly harder to train skills because they are taking so long, for example I currently have Research Project Management at lvl4 and lvl5 will take something like 46 days. It's not worth the training time when it will only give me 1 more research agent and my current agents already have 30k+ points accumulated.

I am going to have to specialise more and leave out a lot of skills. You know what they say "Good at Some, Master of None"

Lao Tzu
Hellenistic Capital
Posted - 2004.08.18 07:15:00 - [10]
 

Quote:
All these games are about money...that's the truth.


I think you'll find that most MMO game devs. see the money as a tedious part of running there game, yes they need to attract people and make a profit, but not about the money.

If programmers want to make money they do fincncial systems, not MMOGs, which are insanely hard work for the money.

Tolkh
Posted - 2004.08.18 07:22:00 - [11]
 

I think that the idea that we shouldn't specialise because the Devs aren't able to balance things is sad. The let's all train the skill of the month mentality is indicative of bad balance, the solution shouldn't be to make it easier to train that skill but rather to see the Devs balance things better.

Now I just started playing so I'm in no position to judge the Devs of this game but I'm a bit amazed to see how many people are switching from one skill tree to another because of the latest patch. What I have read on the forum seems to indicate it's usual behavior, if that's true that must means that EVE didn't encourage specialisation too well so far.

I think that more skills is a good thing. I find the idea of everyone flocking to the ultimate skill combo anoying. There shouldn't be a better skill combo in the first place and people should have viable alternatives that satisfy them.

I truely hope that character differenciation in this game is more than the old timer/beginner comparaison and that carreer paths still plays a role in the long term.

Kel Shek
Posted - 2004.08.18 07:38:00 - [12]
 

Guns shoot things.

big guns shoot biggeer things and do more damage when they hit. these are pretty fundamental things. if you keep THOSE in mind, rather than FOTM'ing then the changes might not seem so earthshaking.

what skill requires BS 5? will tech 2 BS's? yeah, most likely. will they be worth it? yeah. most likely. I'd also expect there to be several things to cut back on how long it takes severely too.

do you deem it worthwhile for you to train BS 5? is the benefit from that, worth the time, at this point in the game? if yes, then you do it, if not, then you don't. you aren't missing big chunks of the game by not having 15 drones in a Dominix.

maybe skills that take 35+ days to train, are NOT intended to *really* be trained functionally by anyone sane at this time? I would imagine the super implants would cut back on that quite a bit, as would advanced learning skills and the training drugs... would BS be worth it if it only took say, 24 days? most who've trained Gallente Indy 5 seem happy with their investment of time...

if yo uwant to be the absolute best in a specific thing, taking a long time, is not unreasonable to my mind.

Quote:
Truth is that people will leave the game when they are bored regardless of how tedious they make it. In my case the tedium just adds to my boredom which will cause me to leave.
money or not, if people are bored, in many cases its their choice. the way I see it they are doing a fantastic job of pacing progression and looping from nothing, up to bs's, back to tech 2 frigs... ect, and then ramping up eventually to tech 2 BS's... I would imagine theres ideas to go even farther than that somewhere in someones notes.

the biggest problem is HAVING a "max level" having an end all be all, this is the biggest baddest ____ around. why make everything rationally obtainable NOW?

Tolkh, amen. FOTM is a habit I think is NOT purely from a flaw in the game, but how people approach it. why do people chose to play this way... I don't know, I tend to be something of a semi-soloer, and all arounder, and I pace my progression by what I can afford, and when my skills are ready. I figure in a month I'll be rolling along with R&D agents, (hopefully by then there being enough log jam cleared, and enough new tech 2's floating around for it to actually function) and flying a Mega and my Dominix, and be working towards an assault frig.

IMO, people who do FOTM'ing are not letting themselves have fun, as much as they are focusing on trying to be the ub3r-est. I don't see why they do that, but hey, to each their own. Some things will change, some won't, if you put your foundation on those that won't, you'll likely be happier.

and good god I'm long winded(so to speak) tonight.

Fester Addams
Minmatar
Posted - 2004.08.18 08:34:00 - [13]
 

You think this is alot of skills?

wait till tech III hits the game.

The current trend is that in order to use Tech II items you need a tech II skill.
Usually the tech II skill has one or more tech I lev 5 skill prerequisisit.

I expect tech III will demand high level in tech II skills.

But all this is in line with what the devs said back when castor was to be implemented.

Raising skills to lev 4 dont take all that much time, a rank 5 skill takes 5-6 days to raise from lev 3 to 4, the problem comes when you need that lev 5, the step from 4 to 5 takes a little over a month.

Personally I have ALOT of skills at lev 4, I very seldom train to lev 5 for the skill effect, I train to lev 5 to get access to more skills.

Personally I love that there are alot more skills ingame than I will ever be able to have, I would be extremely dissapointed if I came to a poing when I had a majority of the skills ingame and most of them were at lev 5.

In short, keep them skills comming, just make a few in social and trading too, I want to expand my char in those fields.

Fuse
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2004.08.18 08:37:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Jericho Ronin
Originally by: Vega Con'Dios
Umm... no duh, CCP makes money when you log on... and they need to keep you training to keep playing. Just like the r&d agents... they are there to get you to login every day.

CCP is smart... is all business and money to them.

the truth hurts, doesnt it?


Truth is that people will leave the game when they are bored regardless of how tedious they make it. In my case the tedium just adds to my boredom which will cause me to leave.

All these games are about money...that's the truth.


Like most people I like complexity in a game making ridiculous specialized skill requirements is not really a game to me. I think CCP are getting less creative in ways to keep older players playing the game. Why the ____ would I train a covert ops skill so I can give some dip____ 130 million for getting lucky? So I just play the game enjoy what I can and ignore the rest.

Callia
Minmatar
Wasabi Inc
Posted - 2004.08.18 10:10:00 - [15]
 

Add more skills t the game, increase the specialisation. That's what I say.
The way it is at the moment the base skills allow you a very broad range of play styles. Higher level skills do not prevent you doing anything, just allow you to play some styles more effectively. Tha is as it should be.

But god I wish they would sort out some more categorisation or add layering to the character sheet. (With specialist skills listed within their parents.) The current great big long list of skills is about as readable as the phone book. Great if you want to know one thing but hardly ideal for browsing and planning. Maybe a solution would be to allow us to create our own folders in there, like in people and places.

gryf
Posted - 2004.08.18 10:59:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Jericho Ronin
I have no idea wtf the devs are thinking but there are already enough skills in this game as well as enough training time to get those skills where they need to be. As it stands now it takes what 30 years to train the current skills up and you guys want to add more? Enough Already. 30 years from now I will be dead and buried and EVE will be about 20 something years into my ancient history.

You have hybrid skills, small, medium and Large. Now you have Hybrid SPecialization skills, small, medium and large all of which need the former to train the latter. Ffs isn't this alittle much? Then I'm sure you are going to do it with all the other weps types too. I haven't figured it out but we are talking months of training.

I don't know what you are thinking or even if you are. It seems everything in this game that is tedious you guys want to make even moreso. MWD's have huge penalties...so you are forced to drag ur butt slow to gates. Mining burns up cap so it takes longer. SKills to do anything take months. It is obsene that any skill should take 40 days to train one level. This is a huge weakness in this game.

Sorry to break this to you but I'm gonna be on to other things long before these skills train up. This is a good game but not good enough to keep anyones attention for 30 years! Oh I forgot you're going to add yet more learning skills to make it go faster...whoo hoo what an idea.


there is alot of skills isn't there. Starting day 1 of retail, Im glad i have something to show vs. a new player and rightfully I should. I should be faster, stronger then a new player. Someday the new player will be faster and stronger as well. what else would you do if you couldn't train new skills? mine? hunt npc? run agent missions? attempt to pvp in a lagged out fleet battle? Comeon the skills are content bro, its so exciting I can hardly contain myself ooopps in fact I just cant. FIX THE DANG FLEET LAG BATTLE. I dont care about anything else in this game ever, never!!! JUST FIX THE FLEET BATTLE LAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ooooooooooo I c I dont have the anti fleet battle lag skill soab.

infact from this point on I will hijack every thread I post in with FIX THE FLEET BATTLE LAG!!!
have a good day

Kcel Chim
Caldari
Arcane Technologies
The Five
Posted - 2004.08.18 11:42:00 - [17]
 

the skills themself are good but there are many questions around them.

a) longtime players.
What keeps a guy after 2 years playing this game, there must be a reward. Surely you can become a jack of all trades, surely you can train more skills to lvl 5 but as you said those lvl 5s only add 5% to it. Which means in general for each gunnery skill on lvl 5 you spend 3 weeks to 1 month. Meaning your overall performance is only 5% better than a far younger player. I agree with CCP those guys who stick around for a year or longer are longtime customers and they need some loving. This is one side of the coin but i personally think adding new skills to please them is one thing but maybe you should grant them another reward, like extra attribute points. Why you ask ? They have a big disadvantage over newer players, they made mistakes you all can learn from. In the start there was just nothing, ppl prodded around added their skills and attributes here and there and job done. Changes like in gunnery, shipstats, modules affect ppl who specialised on them more than a new character who gets told "if you dont do agents avoid charisma". Some ppl prayed or hoped for a far quicker curse of action, content rushing into the game but its a fact, a new player lives often (if he has good guidance) from the experience of olders, dont train tgting to lvl 5, ive never used it) or similar slogans come to my mind.

b) new players and t2+++. This is the 2nd side of the coin, if you make high requirements newer players (and god forbid we had a huge increase in the playerbase lately) might "miss the train". They are not able to fly the nice ships, the new guns etc. On one hand thats bad, because they might be beaten to the floor quicker by longtime players (as it should be) on the otherhand if you see a new guy rushing quickly to t2 you ask yourself why you spend 1 year in a ****ty ship and trained all these skills. My conclusion it needs balance to find a path between giving and opening possibilities for new players to catch up - or better to play along (you dont want them to catch up)

c) advantages. This is a matter of balancing and ill speak it out, those ppl who usually have that high skills can afford the best possible equipment So if you insert new content and new skills make them atleast worth the time. The new guns (i know this might not be the final stats) dont look too great compared to best t1 meta modules. Now lets say they are maybe 10% better the question is would anyone invest 2-3 month training into those 10% + 8% from the skill ? On the purpose of later going on to t3-tx maybe but for the reason to play? prolly not.

d) ingame realisation. the last point. All this patching and adding new content is great but by a larger view you always disadvantage players by doing so. As much as the R&D drops might be fun or rushing to a new tracking system or new skills. Usually it ends up on a certain group of players.
My most loved examples are t2 backup arrays and the CM-launcher. T2 backup arrays came into the game and it took like 3 month for min. and ama. to get theirs. This is simply not acceptable if you want ppl to specialise. You cant punish them for this choice by keeping items back which makes other races maybe superior, even if its just for x days.
Same goes ofc for the tracking changes and the recent missle change. It is certainly wise to make hotfixes but you need to cover the full extend with it, adding CM launchers is great, if you do it the same time you change missles not a week or 2 later and if you add meta items right along. Having ppl who could afford more to use "standard" gives a major disadvantage, especially if you may have trained up your skills to lvl 5 and have 1 billion in the bank.

As an overall conclusion, you should take a deep breath, the skills are something we need to keep ppl going, but they need more care and certain things need to be looked into with more balance. As a previous poster said, if ppl are supposed to specialise (something i highly favour and eventho i did not do it in all my past) hotfixes and major changes must be a thing of the past. You will lose players if they specialized for month and you simply ruin it by nerfing here or there. No excuses can be made and certainly you want to keep longtime players. They are the spice which keeps t3 and t4 running. Joe newbie doesnt need that stuff, he wants to explore the t1 stuff first and certainly has not the skills for the new shizzle. So its only logical that once those veterans extinguished you can sack your development for a time.

Toran Mehtar
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2004.08.18 12:05:00 - [18]
 

Having tried a few MMOGs in the past, I have to say I think Eve character development system is excellent. In no other game (in my experience) are characters of different skill levels able to interact together so wildly.

The very fact that Eve has a system that prevents a character from 'maxing out' should be applauded. In my opinion, many people are playing Eve for the community as much as the gaming experience. With this in mind, the ability for long-time players to continue to develop and experience new things, without having to start a new character, is fantastic.

So some skills take a horribly long time to train, but they balance out in the end, as nobody would bother if they weren't worth it.

I don't see why money is an issue in this either. I could understand that angle if you needed all these skills, but you don't. A player can enjoy so many aspects of the game virtually from day one. If you have to have these skills, then why do so many people fly week old alts into combat as support pilots ?


Maud Dib
Caldari
The Bleeding Heart Cult
Posted - 2004.08.18 12:44:00 - [19]
 

New skills equal more choices. More choices make a better game. If you don't want to train the new skills then don't. Keep training the old ones but because you don't want to take the time to train them doesn't mean others shouldn't have that option.


Why is everyone in this damn game so selfish?

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2004.08.18 12:56:00 - [20]
 

More skills!

Now how about 20 social skills for diversitys sake?

Grimster
Reikoku
Posted - 2004.08.18 13:14:00 - [21]
 

Training doesn't keep me playing - the game does.

Training's something you can do to get better at a given task but not compulsary (beyond the basics).

If it was the other way around and you'd maxed out all skills, you'd then be whining that you'd run out of skills to train. Rolling Eyes

If you leave, can I have your stuff?

Maud Dib
Caldari
The Bleeding Heart Cult
Posted - 2004.08.18 13:55:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Riddari
Originally by: Maud Dib
New skills equal more choices. More choices make a better game. If you don't want to train the new skills then don't. Keep training the old ones but because you don't want to take the time to train them doesn't mean others shouldn't have that option.


Why is everyone in this damn game so selfish?
Pot Kettle Black Shocked




Umm you know there is a difference between thinking one aspect of EVE is too rewarding and not wanting to let people choose advanced skills. Well at least I think their is.

Riddari
VIT
Posted - 2004.08.18 13:55:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Riddari on 18/08/2004 13:57:21
Originally by: Maud Dib

Umm you know there is a difference between thinking one aspect of EVE is too rewarding and not wanting to let people choose advanced skills. Well at least I think their is.
Point taken, removed

But it was mostly about your selfish remark Wink

Kaleigh Doyle
Gallente
Racing News Network
Posted - 2004.08.18 15:21:00 - [24]
 

The irony is that you'd probably be writing the opposite of this if CCP made the skill learning times smaller, and the elder players would be bored asking, "Why do I need to play anymore? I have all the skills...there's nothing else to aim for!", etc...

Trying to be great at everything is kinda silly...


Fal Aren
Posted - 2004.08.18 15:22:00 - [25]
 

In every other MMO out there, you pick your role right at the start of the game. Wizard, Fighter, Thief etc. In most games you are tied to that role, and cannot deviate much from that path.

In EVE, you are given pretty much a "blank slate" when you start your character, you can head down the path that YOU want and deviate to your own will, whenever you want.

The new specialist skills are taking it back to a decent "role" aspect though. Surely, if you want to concentrate on fighting.... you should be able to, putting in days of training to get a bonus. You should NOT be able to get lvl5 in every single goddamn thing out there. It doesn't make sense ingame, nor out of game.

New skills, specialisation = GOOD.


Jericho Ronin
Posted - 2004.08.18 16:05:00 - [26]
 

Making players specialize is not a bad thing. The thing that I am sick of is the ridiculous length of time need for training skills. If you read my original post you need level 5 skills to train these new skills. Depending on the rank of the skill it can take between 20-40 days to get level 5. Some of the new skills require 2 or more level 5 skills. Then when you factor that some of the new skills are to be used in conjunction with other new skills, you are talking about several months or longer to fully realize wtf you are trying to do. By that time the devs could change the direction of the game, nerf the stuff you are working toward or simply add more skills to make it more difficult to get where you are trying to go. They have done that before, chances are they will do it again.

The skill training now takes years. Even if you specialize you will never build up all the skills you need as there is not enough time to do it. The DEVS need to reduce the ridiculous amount of time to train these skills... 39 days to train one skill to level 5 is assinine. Adding more learning skills that you have to waste time training is NOT what I am talking about. No one, and I mean no one who is playing this game now will be playing 10 years from now. THe game probably won't even be around anymore. That's about 1/3 of the time it takes to train the skills.


Grimster
Reikoku
Posted - 2004.08.19 09:10:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Jericho Ronin
Making players specialize is not a bad thing. The thing that I am sick of is the ridiculous length of time need for training skills. If you read my original post you need level 5 skills to train these new skills. Depending on the rank of the skill it can take between 20-40 days to get level 5. Some of the new skills require 2 or more level 5 skills. Then when you factor that some of the new skills are to be used in conjunction with other new skills, you are talking about several months or longer to fully realize wtf you are trying to do. By that time the devs could change the direction of the game, nerf the stuff you are working toward or simply add more skills to make it more difficult to get where you are trying to go. They have done that before, chances are they will do it again.

The skill training now takes years. Even if you specialize you will never build up all the skills you need as there is not enough time to do it. The DEVS need to reduce the ridiculous amount of time to train these skills... 39 days to train one skill to level 5 is assinine. Adding more learning skills that you have to waste time training is NOT what I am talking about. No one, and I mean no one who is playing this game now will be playing 10 years from now. THe game probably won't even be around anymore. That's about 1/3 of the time it takes to train the skills.




This begs the question, why do you feel a need to do it then?

To be all you can be?

Because it's there?

If so then fair enough, but no need to whine about the time they take.

Comparison.

My son is a manic PC gamer, he takes his pocket money and buys himself a handful of the budget titles - last year's PC games but he gets more bang for his buck that way.
He then proceeds to manically play them for the next week, but probably switching between games several times a day, until they are all complete. All of them, he won't stop.

Once done, they're never looked at again, even though the quickest route has been taken and probably half of a given game remains unexplored.

It seems like you're looking for an "end" to training, just wondering why? You can either be a jack of all trades, or specialise in a given trade or job.

If you feel the need to specialise rather than rush through then it's worth the time doing it.

My 2isk

Wylaf Umberg
Posted - 2004.08.19 12:07:00 - [28]
 

I don't have a problem with the need/possibility to specialize. It's also OK that deep specialization (lvl 5) takes comparatively long. This works more or less as in real life and makes sense.

What I have difficulty with is the problem with changing your specialization once you have come some ways. If you are a good miner and want to become a fighter, for instance, everything basically starts from zero. The same, even less sensible, if you wish to switch from one weapon line to another (energy to hybrids, say). In real life, you get used to learning and do learn easier with time (just the learning skills, but that's just a one-off thing).

There are implants, of course, but those realistically require you to stay safe unless you dedicate yourself to earning isk. Not really freedom of choice, that.

So I would support the idea of some form of attribute increase once a player has been on for a certain time or reached certain skill treshholds. Would make it easier to switch if you need it after having played for some time in the way you chose at the beginning.

Just my centsworth

Wizard
Servant's of order
Posted - 2004.08.19 13:55:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Maud Dib
New skills equal more choices. More choices make a better game. If you don't want to train the new skills then don't. Keep training the old ones but because you don't want to take the time to train them doesn't mean others shouldn't have that option.


Why is everyone in this damn game so selfish?



Here Here!!

Totally aggree :)

SEALen
Posted - 2004.08.19 14:07:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: SEALen on 19/08/2004 14:09:41
Is there any change in this game that doesn't get biatched and moaned about? Should CCP stop improving on the game? Reading this forum I get the distinct feeling that alot of the ppl writing here would rather that CCP pulled the plug on EVE than improving it. Adding more skills is improving the game PERIOD! I just hope they add bigger clones soon to.. I've just broken 12M Skillpoints.. the biggest clone in only 19M so that's still 6 months away for me I guess but the points keeps going up constantly so sooner or later I'm there...


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