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Aneia Hroll
Amarr
Posted - 2009.03.14 02:50:00 - [1]
 


Hello,

Our little indy corp. has been getting threatened by a larger group of pvp guys in empire of being war-decced
and POS taken out. This came about because we would not make these guys ships at min. cost even though we
don't even know who they are. They just happen to transit our system often on their way to low-sec.

So, they have claimed to be purchasing mercs. to help them as well.

We have operated our pos for about 4mo. now, but have never had to defend it.
I should say, we feel our pos is our little success story and we (me especially) are anxious
about it potentially getting blown up.

We have money...all six of us do really well isk wise. We are looking at two different merc. corps for combat
services to counter them.

But further. We have a couple guns up, but our knowledge is entirely lacking here.

I have followed some of the guides by the pro's here and I am going to do a few things right off such as:
*Sell our 2 large (our only guns) arty guns
*Buy med. arty guns and a few med. ac for close
*Buy the Web units x2
*Buy x2 ea. of the ecm units

Question:
1. Do we need to buy pirate faction guns to be more effective?
2. Should we use faction ammo's?
3. How much ammo's should we have on hand?
4. How many gunner alts should we create to have on hand? (might be too late for this though)
5. I am nervous and am probably forgetting something Sad

I don't want to give you the wrong impression, we are not just paying for merc to save us. We have
decided we are going out to fight too and not just sit behind POS shields, or stations. Both merc.
corps. said they would take our members along as long as the merc. corp has over twice our numbers
for protection purposes in the flight, or gang.

So, thank you...any good advices are considered and needed.Very Happy

Brock Nelson
Posted - 2009.03.14 03:01:00 - [2]
 

4. Yes, its too late. Takes about 20 days to train to Starbase Defense IV.

Might help to tell us whats your POS setup looks like. ECM, Hardender, and webber are your friends.

Aneia Hroll
Amarr
Posted - 2009.03.14 03:10:00 - [3]
 


Yes okay, other than the 2 large guns we just have labs/build arrays/corp hangar/ship maint.

We have to pick up hardeners too, forgot that.

We also plan to take down indy items during the war as the guide suggested.

Our tower(We call it the tower of power) is a domination med.

Thank you

Killem alll
Posted - 2009.03.14 04:18:00 - [4]
 

Someone reading this with Starbase Def. 4 may contact you and join your corp for a price (and may not be working with your attackers as well). If not, keep looking for them - Spam Jita local if you have to.

Does anyone know of a channel that would help?


FullBoat
Chateau D'If Exiles
Posted - 2009.03.14 06:39:00 - [5]
 

Get as many med guns as you can on there. If it's a Domi tower, then you can use faction ammo crystals. They aren't too much more, and gives you a good punch.

As for the star base control, as far as I remember, you can't control guns in empire(+.5), but I might be wrong. Smile

As for hardeners, get 2 each of what your 0% resist is, and 1 of the 25%.

Having a couple web's/Jammers/Newts/ECM are nice. Takes longer to lock, and no cap is no regen. And if nothing else, it ticks off a BS that takes forever to lock anyway. heehee

Vigilant
Gallente
Vigilant's Vigilante's
Posted - 2009.03.14 07:03:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: FullBoat
Get as many med guns as you can on there. If it's a Domi tower, then you can use faction ammo crystals. They aren't too much more, and gives you a good punch.

As for the star base control, as far as I remember, you can't control guns in empire(+.5), but I might be wrong. Smile

As for hardeners, get 2 each of what your 0% resist is, and 1 of the 25%.

Having a couple web's/Jammers/Newts/ECM are nice. Takes longer to lock, and no cap is no regen. And if nothing else, it ticks off a BS that takes forever to lock anyway. heehee


You can control guns in any security space. Starbase Defense is PITA due to Anchroing 5 being required. Hire a gunner, best bet.
Unanchor labs, corp hangers, manufacturing and put them in a regular station. Buy as many hardners, EWAR and medium guns you can after fitting the two large.

If they want the tower that bad, they will have to bring a very large fleet of BS sniper fit ships....and they will pay a price (if you got a gunner or two).

Vig o /

Dreamwalker
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.03.14 07:04:00 - [7]
 

Not sure on the size of the attacking corp but you can take the POS down, which being you have no gunners would be a smart idea or you can fight. If you fight you should have some members that are currently trained for remote repairing so you can rep up the points and neuts they shoot.

Also having a few falcons or rooks there to jam the BS fleet could be useful if they don't have starbase defence.

Kusum Fawn
Posted - 2009.03.14 08:10:00 - [8]
 

when you actually get deced-
best bet is to take the pos down starting with the labs
If you arent pvpers run, safest and most expedient method, set up the corp later when the wardec is over, also take a vacation from the game, or go afk docked for long periods of time,

if still not deced, medium guns for hisec, and stasis webs are nice, having a warpscram and a web can make some intresting salvage,

1 no, but can help (make you a bigger target for the merc and they can do more damage)
2 up to you, but i dont
3 depends on how many guns you have but lots,
4 depends on how many guns you have again, but each corp member should have at least one
5 remember you want hull and armor reppers at the pos to get the turret batteries back up,
6 anchor more things then you actually want to have online at once,
7 harderners, cause pos warfare is long and boring in hisec, if its yours, make it longer,

Aneia Hroll
Amarr
Posted - 2009.03.14 09:54:00 - [9]
 


Okay, thanks for the help

The instigator corp. is mostly 2003-2005 players and they know folks, so forget it.
We just had a meeting and have decided to take the POS down and move to a new area
of space and hide out I guess.

Not proud of it, but looking at the war-dec mechanic, it seems based around a pay to grief system. hehe, bleh.

Kiyirari
All Star Shipyards
Posted - 2009.03.14 10:42:00 - [10]
 

Mmm depends on the size of your tower, if you have a small pos with a few guns then 20 sniper BS with support will take it down in a matter of hours.

Personally i'll upgrade to a faction tower, lots of people recommend dread gurista 60 mil shields on a large tower, thats with out hardeners Laughing plus Ewar bonus.

Also of note, medium arties are in favour as they are the best damage pos guns on par with faction guns.
It requires 4 medium arties and 1 pos gunner to insta pop a BS, having more members with starbase defence will give any attacking force a very difficult time taking your pos down.

Tharrn
Amarr
Epitoth Fleet Yards
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.14 11:36:00 - [11]
 

If your POS is in high-sec forget big guns (they are really only good against Dreads) and neuts. Put up lots of medium and small guns, a webifier and a warp jammer. If you have four or five POS gunners you can take out a sizeable BS force by focussing fire on one ship a time. Don't forget to Stront up your tower and put ammo in the guns :P

Give 'em hell - don't let them just walk over you.

Dreamwalker
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.03.14 14:51:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Tharrn
If your POS is in high-sec forget big guns (they are really only good against Dreads) and neuts. Put up lots of medium and small guns, a webifier and a warp jammer. If you have four or five POS gunners you can take out a sizeable BS force by focussing fire on one ship a time. Don't forget to Stront up your tower and put ammo in the guns :P


I like neuts for high sec, I have used them to wreak a BS fleet. Yes I know they are for dreads but still I like being able to end the threat of an armor repairing, lasor using BS.

Trotters Independant
Posted - 2009.03.17 02:39:00 - [13]
 

The bigger the tower the better. Fit 1 warp disruptor, 1 web,4 med artil and as many small autos as you can pack on. Load everything up with EMP ammo and have plenty to spare. Remove all labs etc and store until the war is over.

When the war is over just offline the guns and leave them anchored. Put the labs back up and carry on.

Also, dont spread your guns out all over the tower, keep them all together in a nice tight bunch. In future, put up a large minmitar tower with this setup and you should be left alone.

Mail me in game if you want a more detailed setup for a hi sec pos

Sicardae Bad'ia
Posted - 2009.03.17 05:10:00 - [14]
 

My personal taste for a tower defense like this:

4x med arty
4x med auto
2x sml arty
2x sml auto
2x webs
2x warp disrupts
2x white noise, ion field, phase inversion and spatial destab batterys (2 of each ecm)

forget the hardeners, forget the faction guns,
set it up with a web, a point and 1 of each ecm at the + and - Z ends of the tower, with a small arty, a small auto and two med autos in a small ring around the ewar mods,
it should be set up as two concentric circles,
set up the med arty on the equator of the tower, at 90 degree angles,
this ensures that theres always a set of guns with very good tracking angles to the hostiles regardless of where they come in.

Victor Valka
Caldari
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2009.03.17 07:35:00 - [15]
 

Pack and move, unless there is a reason you can not.

Ava Baby
Paxton Industries
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2009.03.17 08:14:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Ava Baby on 17/03/2009 08:14:57
Originally by: Dreamwalker
If you fight you should have some members that are currently trained for remote repairing so you can rep up the points and neuts they shoot.


Or you can a bunch of alts in NPC corps to rep the mods up. Then if the attackers go after the alts they will get concorded.(i think)Very Happy


Acobar
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.03.17 09:13:00 - [17]
 

Is this a large tower? Without gunners, the attacking group are likely to be able to spider tank your guns. If that's a large tower my advice would be to remove all industry mods from the tower and replace them with shield hardeners and jammers. That's right, no guns. If the attacking side is determined, they will take out your tower anyway. At least you can make the process pain in the butt.

If you do have gunners, that's different story.

Brachah
Posted - 2009.03.17 12:49:00 - [18]
 

Assuming you are going ahead and dismantling the POS, I'd put any replacement up some distance away, to prevent a repeat occurence. Also, make sure your corp HQ is many jumps away, so it doesn't give any clue as to your whereabouts.

Good Luck

Maestro Del'Tirith
Space Exploration
Forward Motion Industries
Posted - 2009.03.17 13:17:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Maestro Del''Tirith on 17/03/2009 13:17:29
Doesn't hurt to also do a little 'faking' in the corp information. Most of these groups only know what folks are affiliated with or doing based on the corp info...if you aren't recruiting (obviously then you don't want to give the wrong impression) put something up about enjoying carebear tears and how you are the logistics division for a pirate gang 'coming to a gate camp near you'. Do this with all the characters in your group's bios and add to the realism. If somebody scopes out the tower they are less likely to mess with it...also, see this link:

Good POS Setups

Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo
Posted - 2009.03.17 14:23:00 - [20]
 

i gotta tell you . . . i would stand and fight. If you're making money where you are . . . and apparently a LOT of money, you should make a stand and make those who would oppose you wish they had never heard of your corp YARRRR!!

Midas Man
Caldari
Dzark Innovations
Posted - 2009.03.17 16:58:00 - [21]
 

if you have medium or large tower offline and remove everything then Put up as many hardeners as you can, put up lots of small/medium arties.

Ive found that most high sec war dec as corps looking to scare industrials/traders into handing over ransoms or payout for security etc etc.


the time it will take them to take down your tower if you have hardeners is usually enough to stop them in their tracks.

Saba Quiestador
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.03.17 21:41:00 - [22]
 

If you don't have a large Amarr or Minmatar (or faction variant) tower, just take everything down and wait for the wardec to end. You can also defend a large Gallente, but not as well as Amarr or Minmatar. Don't even bother with a Caldari large, or any type of medium/small - just take them down.

If you do have a POS that can defend itself, unanchor and remove all valuable structures from the tower - especially labs. Then attackers have nothing to gain (as long as you don't have faction guns), and a lot to lose. They may be able to get the guns in the end, but they are cheap, so don't provide much upside.

Put 2-3 web+disruptor pairs on the tower. DON'T use scrams - use disruptors. Put a small arty (Minmatar) or beam (Amarr) with each pair of web/disruptors. This will kill fast/small ships (and keep them from orbiting the tower and emptying all the ammo on a Minmatar POS). Anchor 16 or so medium artillery (Minmatar) or beams (Amarr), and online as many as you can. If they attack and shoot the guns, be ready to online additional guns. Make sure everything has ammo. Use at least two clusters, on opposite sides of the POS (I use 4 clusters, in a tetrahedron, if I want to get fancy). For artillery, mix the damage types of the ammo so that they cannot tank for a specific damage type. You can do this with beams as well, but not as well.

Whatever you do, don't use cruise missile batteries, small blasters, warp scrambling batteries, or other assorted stupidity. The gold standard is a Minmatar with medium artillery. Don't mess with ewar unless you will have gunners, AND plan on defending with an active fleet (OR you're willing to spend umpteen hours to anchor/online 30-40 of them to make a difference, rather than just be a nuisance).

Oh, and make sure you have a full load of strontium in the tower.


Nobody in their right mind would attack a tower like this in highsec, unless they are being paid an awful lot, even if you don't have gunners. There is no monetary gain for them, and they will lose ships. If you have even one gunner, no fleet under 50 battleships will be able to take it down, and you will have a field day.

If you just don't want to deal with it, unanchor everything, don't undock, and wait for them to retract the wardec. This is a pain, but it is the best solution if you aren't familiar/comfortable with POS warfare.


And if, as is likely, you don't have any gunners, and you don't have a minmatar/amarr large POS, then let this be a lesson to you. If you want to have a tower up, you need to either have gunners and a defensible POS, or be willing to unanchor and store everything every time you get a wardec.


In terms of my experience, I have an alt corp doing production in empire. I've gone through the pain of having a tower blown up by a corp that makes its money doing just that. It taught me to assume the worst, and always build robust, well-defended POSes in highsec. I've also had experience in 0.0 both building and defending POSes in cyno jammed systems (which is very similar to an empire wardec, with no dreads).


Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.17 22:07:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Fitz VonHeise on 17/03/2009 22:27:19

If you can't get any gunners take your POS down immediatly.
Without gunners it is toast.

If you do have gunners and want to kill them then look over my link
Good POS Setups


Below is what I would put up... And then I would have fun killing them.
But you would really have to have someone online 24/7 and have phone numbers to the others (or a way to wake them up) as these pirates will probably just wait to attack on your off cycle.

So if you can't do this... then just move the POS cause if it is put into reinforcement without a fleet, killing anything is a lost cause. (I would look at this as a chance to really mess these guys up) Twisted Evil



High Sec Death Star (W/Hardeners)

Domination or Minmitar Tower Large Control Tower
(What POS Has Online After WarDec Starts Before They Attack)

2x Ballistic Deflection Array
2x Explosion Dampening Array
1x Heat Dissipation Array
3x Ion Field Projection Battery
3x Phase Inversion Battery
3x Spatial Destab Battery
3x White Noise Generation Battery
1x Stasis Webification Battery
2x Warp Disruption Battery
10x Medium Arty Battery
2x Medium AutoCannon Battery
4x Small Arty Battery

What We Should Have Anchored But Not Online:
1 Component Assembly Array (Storage. Online as needed)
3 Warp Disruption Batteries (extra for when an active one is destroyed)
3 Stasis Webifiers (extra)
7 Medium Arty Battery
4 Medium Auto Arty
3x Small Arty Battery
1x Ion Field Projection Battery
1x Phase Inversion Battery
1x Spatial Destab Battery
1x White Noise Gener Battery

When Attacked You:
Offline
1x Ballistic Deflection Array
1x Explosion Dampening Array
1x Heat Dissipation Array


Online
2x Medium Arty Battery
1x Small Arty Battery


When CPU Batteries Offline You Online:
3x Medium Arty Battery
2x Medium Auto Arty



High Sec Death Star

Domination or Minmitar Tower Large Control Tower
(What POS Has Online After POS Goes Into Reinforcement)

15x Medium Arty Battery
4x Medium Auto Arty
5x Small Arty Battery


Gun Positions

Here is what I have been doing:

I put up four groups of batteries around the middle of the POS that include equal numbers of Arty and ECM. I put them out as far as I can put them.

On the top and the bottom I put equal numbers of web/jammers as far out as they can go. Also at top and bottom but off to the side of web/jammers I put up the Auto cannons. (They are short range but fleets like to come in closer to jammers to take them out and auto batteries rock!)

Put up your extras of each type in same locations as above.


EDIT: Just looked at posting date and you probably are past your deadline.... but you could put up the above tower and then tell them where it is to get some action.

Aneia Hroll
Amarr
Posted - 2009.03.17 23:36:00 - [24]
 


I want to thank all for your replies and information.

This is a big eye opener for us. We have lost a great deal already.
I am really surprised they flew almost 40 jumps to get to our new
spot around khanid. We lost some haulers so far, lost some pos items too. Every time we poke our head out
of the station, they seem to always be there!Laughing

We have fought them one time so far, but like I said, they are good at what they do.
We had three t1 cruisers and a BC (cane), the guy we were fighting had an ishkur. We
almost had him, but he was able to take us out. Only upside is we make all this stuff. haha.
He told us "GF" even though I felt like I got "penalized" for dropping soap.

I am taking this information to heart and we are getting serious about oru next tower. It is going
to be a large one adn will be soaked in guns. Each one of us now has pos gunner alts training even though
we stopped training our mains to do so. So we will have six pos gunners and there are at least two of us online
at all times. We all know each other real well and can contact each other out of game too, in case we have to rally.

Question:
For a large tower, is a faction one required?
I know it would be best, but the cost to step up from our domination medium is substantial as we have lost quite a
bit of isk so far.

Again, thanks

Hudill
Posted - 2009.03.18 09:22:00 - [25]
 

Honestly all the faction / whatever guns aren't going to save you from a corp that want to take you down. You will need a active defense, aka real battleships there to defend you, since you are in high sec (no capitals). You might take out a couple after spinding billions in isk, but you will be better off just highering a good corp to defend you.

Decide which is cheaper, paying off the people attacking you or defending it. All the other faction guns, ammo, whatever is just a waste. Its not hard to tank a POS defense.

Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo
Posted - 2009.03.18 10:25:00 - [26]
 

no, a faction tower is not necessary, in fact, the only thing i would recommend getting that is faction would be stasis webs as the faction ones are about a billion times better than the normal ones. more specific numbers when i get on my comp but you have no reason to put large guns on the tower so you can anchor a TON of medium guns; i suggest 10 or so dampeners . . . as you will NOT be facing dreads, you can be pretty sure they're gonna have to come inside 150k and therefore scramble range esp with POS gunners . . . as the Romans said unleash H-E-L-L

Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo
Posted - 2009.03.18 13:21:00 - [27]
 

ok now that im at my computer i can give numbers.

this is assuming that you are going to be online with at least a few gunners at the time of the attack.

3x domination web arrays
3x neut batteries (i know they're for taking out dreads, but they work great on those annoying RR gangs too.)
4x Jammers for each race
3x warp disruption batteries (still haven't found a use for the warp scramblers)
15x sensor dampener batteries (i know this seems excessive, but you NEED the fleet to be in closer than 150 so your warp disruptors work on them.)

as many medium and small artillery batteries as you can fit.

Larges are completely necessary as they'll miss 50% against most battleships.

bring a target painter from your group as well.

The idea of all the E-war is 1. to break up RR gangs and 2. to bring the ships in close so your warp disruption batteries can do their thing.

basically logistics ships are gonna insta-pop, so your only real danger is from RR battleship gangs and fast frigates and cruisers.

with this and some gunners, any fleet less than 75 ppl is completly screwed.

Dorukusai
Posted - 2009.03.18 13:46:00 - [28]
 

Go here

Good luck, I would stay and fight.. make them bleed Cool

Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.18 20:59:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Fitz VonHeise on 18/03/2009 21:03:01

Originally by: Sigras
no, a faction tower is not necessary
True
Originally by: Sigras
get factional stasis webs
Good point
Originally by: Sigras
i suggest 10 or so dampeners
No. ECM are far better then Damps. RR BS's typcially will come in close to your tower anyway so damps will not help. But ECM will stop them from not only shooting you but from repping each other.

It is always better to have a fleet to help but with my above setup you will kill lots of ships IF you can get your gunners online before they put your POS into reinforcement. Take out their logistic ships first then work on the BS's.

Have someone dedicated to monitoring when batteries are taken out and they then online the researve ones. They should not be shooting anything but just telling the others when the next one battery will come online so that assigned gunner can take over and use it.

destinationunreachable
Hello Kitty Fanclub
Posted - 2009.03.18 21:18:00 - [30]
 

In addition: if you cannot make sure to have pos gunners there within minutes of the first mail that the pos is being attacked, you might want to stack up loads of shield hardeners to delay the time between starting of shooting and arrival of the pos gunners.
Once you arrive you can offline the hardeners and online more guns/ECM instead one by one.



 

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