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Fortune Taker
Caldari
Posted - 2009.03.02 23:58:00 - [1]
 

ok i know this is going to be a strange question

how big would you think a small hybrid charge would be?
these things are supposed to be shot out of a 75mm gun minimum

i figured it out using the volume in game, but that would make it a 5mm bullet
i know it is the force of the object that causes the damage, but what is the deal with having different size guns
is this barrel diameter or lenght of the barrel?

why im asking is i plan on making a hanger and want to show some ammo and stuff lying around, but having a bunch of real world bullet sized objects laying around doesn't exactly look good

more imput on other ammo would help too


Cat o'Ninetails
Caldari
Rancer Defence League
Posted - 2009.03.02 23:59:00 - [2]
 

i know some of the guns fire like 1400mm shots they are like the size of cars lol

Khemul Zula
Amarr
Keisen Trade League
Posted - 2009.03.03 00:01:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
i know some of the guns fire like 1400mm shots they are like the size of cars lol
/thread

Jimer Lins
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.03.03 00:11:00 - [4]
 

Well, at .005 m3, you could fit 200 small charges into a cubic meter. That would mean if they were cubes, they'd be 5 cm x 5 cm, which they're not. But since the charges fit in guns from 75 to 150mm, I'm not sure they're specifically sized. From the description in-game, they're somehow processed by the gun before it's fired, depending on whether it's a rail or blaster.

For a picture, I'd say that they'd probably be about the size of a soda can.


Bapfl
Gallente
Posted - 2009.03.03 00:19:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Jimer Lins
Well, at .005 m3, you could fit 200 small charges into a cubic meter. That would mean if they were cubes, they'd be 5 cm x 5 cm, which they're not. But since the charges fit in guns from 75 to 150mm, I'm not sure they're specifically sized. From the description in-game, they're somehow processed by the gun before it's fired, depending on whether it's a rail or blaster.

For a picture, I'd say that they'd probably be about the size of a soda can.




17.1

Shadow''Broker
Posted - 2009.03.03 00:31:00 - [6]
 

They fire metal pancakes.

Junko Togawa
Caldari
Posted - 2009.03.03 00:45:00 - [7]
 

http://www.aopt91.dsl.pipex.com/railgun/Content/Railwayguns/German/Dora%20index.htm Here's an article about the largest gun made to date, coming in at 800mm. Taken from that page is this: Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


Jimer Lins
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.03.03 00:57:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Jimer Lins on 03/03/2009 00:57:12
The largest "modern" guns are the ones the battleship Yamato fielded during WWII- at 460mm, or just a bit over 18 inches. That's pretty big. Modern US Navy battleships can field up to 16 inch shells weighing about 2500 pounds- leading to the artilleryman's joke of calling in "volkswagens in effect", since they weigh about the same as a VW Beetle. o.O

The largest field artillery pieces (land-based) in the US military are 8-inch howitzers, which fire shells around 250 pounds and about 3 feet long.

Contrast that with an EVE battleship firing shells twice that size, or capital guns, even. The shells would be bigger than a Mack truck.

(former redleg)


Fortune Taker
Caldari
Posted - 2009.03.03 03:02:00 - [9]
 

i figure ill just use the smallest diameter of each catagory for the size of each shell

thanks for the input

CCP input would be nice too Laughing

Merouk Baas
Gallente
Posted - 2009.03.03 03:13:00 - [10]
 

Yeah, use the smallest, but 75mm is the caliber (the diameter) of the shell. And so a small car would indeed fit in the barrel of a 1400mm diameter cannon.

Promii
Posted - 2009.03.03 03:51:00 - [11]
 

In my view, the "real" EVE universe actually has different sized ammunition for each gun size, but the game just has the 4 sizes for simplicity's sake. So the smallest hybrid round at 75mm would be a bit larger than a soda can and the largest 1000mm rounds would be approaching car-sized.

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2009.03.03 04:11:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Merouk Baas
Yeah, use the smallest, but 75mm is the caliber (the diameter) of the shell. And so a small car would indeed fit in the barrel of a 1400mm diameter cannon.


if 75mm is the caliber, then how come the same size ammo can fit inside different caliber weapons? I suspect that the 75mm/125mm/150mm actually refers to barrel length - not diameter. Unless of course the gun somehow smashed the ammo into the correct diameter. But methinks that might be dangerous with nuclear ordinance.

ColdChimera
Gallente
Knights of Redwall
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.03 04:20:00 - [13]
 

42.

End of discussion.

Shirley Serious
Amarr
The Khanid Sisters of Athra
Posted - 2009.03.03 04:48:00 - [14]
 

Game abstractions.

the ammunition does not necessarily represent the entirety of the ammunition. It may only be what would be the warhead, or other configurable things.

Like for example, missiles. The difference between missiles is largely the warhead, not the body. So you'd have a stock of missile bodies, and only change out the warheads as necessary. The ship would fit the warhead to the missile before loading it into the launcher.

For guns, then the ammunition charge represents a small portion of the round. There'd be other stuff, like for example, in projectile rounds, you'd have a big charge of explosives, and probably also a carrier thingy. Like those discarding sabot rounds that tanks use.

So your 150mm railgun is firing a round of 150mm diameter, but only a small portion of the round is the charge that you see ingame. The rest will be some non-destructive part, that still allows a 150mm rail to fire the charge further and faster than a 75mm.

Similar thing for projectiles. The combustion chamber changes in size, as does the sabot carrier for the actual warhead, but the warhead is the same size between guns.

Typhado3
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.03.03 04:58:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Shirley Serious
Game abstractions.

the ammunition does not necessarily represent the entirety of the ammunition. It may only be what would be the warhead, or other configurable things.

Like for example, missiles. The difference between missiles is largely the warhead, not the body. So you'd have a stock of missile bodies, and only change out the warheads as necessary. The ship would fit the warhead to the missile before loading it into the launcher.

For guns, then the ammunition charge represents a small portion of the round. There'd be other stuff, like for example, in projectile rounds, you'd have a big charge of explosives, and probably also a carrier thingy. Like those discarding sabot rounds that tanks use.

So your 150mm railgun is firing a round of 150mm diameter, but only a small portion of the round is the charge that you see ingame. The rest will be some non-destructive part, that still allows a 150mm rail to fire the charge further and faster than a 75mm.

Similar thing for projectiles. The combustion chamber changes in size, as does the sabot carrier for the actual warhead, but the warhead is the same size between guns.


this is probably the best explanation of ammo and guns I've seen so far..... thought the one about 1400mm howitzers shooting 5mm thick balls of fluff was pretty good.

Alternate Poster
Posted - 2009.03.03 05:40:00 - [16]
 

Sabot?
The round itself stays the same, but the caliber varies to allow a larger or smaller charge?

Check the weights and volumes of ammo, there's no way a large projectile is 1400mm diameter unless we're talking about a discus.

EFT Warrior
Posted - 2009.03.03 07:15:00 - [17]
 

Military experts are calling this a sabot shell.

Spenz
Gallente
PCG Enterprises
Huzzah Federation
Posted - 2009.03.03 07:48:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Jimer Lins
Edited by: Jimer Lins on 03/03/2009 00:57:12
The largest "modern" guns are the ones the battleship Yamato fielded during WWII- at 460mm, or just a bit over 18 inches. That's pretty big. Modern US Navy battleships can field up to 16 inch shells weighing about 2500 pounds- leading to the artilleryman's joke of calling in "volkswagens in effect", since they weigh about the same as a VW Beetle. o.O

The largest field artillery pieces (land-based) in the US military are 8-inch howitzers, which fire shells around 250 pounds and about 3 feet long.

Contrast that with an EVE battleship firing shells twice that size, or capital guns, even. The shells would be bigger than a Mack truck.

(former redleg)




The Yamato had the largest NAVAL cannons ever mounted. The largest gun (true gun that is) was Gustav and its sister Dora, which were both 800mm railway cannons. The fact that the minmatar have 800mm autocannons just boggles the mind when you think about it.

Junko Togawa
Caldari
Posted - 2009.03.03 09:17:00 - [19]
 

Or to consider that capital-class autocannons are batteries of six 2500mm repeating artillery, while capital-class artillery are batteries of four 3500mm siege artillery. That would be rounds 2.5m(8.2 ft) and 3.5m(11.48 ft) in size. Shocked

CCP Gangleri


Minmatar
Posted - 2009.03.03 10:27:00 - [20]
 

This is what I fit to my Rifter.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2009.03.03 11:08:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: MotherMoon on 03/03/2009 11:07:57
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
This is what I fit to my Rifter.


I wish our weapons looked like that :(

medium guns look ok... but small guns on minmatar ships look like handguns.

Vak'ran
TUIG Inc.
Posted - 2009.03.03 11:35:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
Edited by: MotherMoon on 03/03/2009 11:07:57
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
This is what I fit to my Rifter.


I wish our weapons looked like that :(

medium guns look ok... but small guns on minmatar ships look like handguns.


yeah some changes in that respect would probably put stuff into perspective more easily for players. I'd say the small weapons should be shaped much like the large varieties, i.e. a proper starship gun as opposed to a stick on a stalk...

when looking at small weapons it's not strange that a lot of players tend to forget that your typical frigate is the size of an Airbus A380.

Some size difference between a 75mm rail and a 280mm howitzer would be nice too. Since a 75mm weapon is typically dragged on two wheels behind a truck and CCP Gangleri showed us that the 280mm variety needs a train the size of the abovementioned A480's wing...

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.03.03 11:48:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: CCP Gangleri
This is what I fit to my Rifter.

I see your 280mm nuclear artillery and raise you a nuclear rifle.

Cyberman Mastermind
Posted - 2009.03.03 12:00:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Taedrin
if 75mm is the caliber, then how come the same size ammo can fit inside different caliber weapons?


Sabots
Expand-to-fit ammo.
Probably made from interstellar dust, like civilian ammo.

Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
Posted - 2009.03.03 13:40:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind

Sabots
Expand-to-fit ammo.

"When the sabot reaches the end of the barrel, the shock of hitting still air pulls the parts of the sabot away from the projectile"

In space there is no air, that is why no one can hear you scream.

Mish'Kala
Minmatar
Between the lines
RAID Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.03 14:05:00 - [26]
 

Simple RP explaination is this.

when you buy 2000 units of small ammo you are buying 2000 x 0.005M3 of ammo in the caliber your guns require Not 2000 rounds od ammo.

If that doesnt float you boat, then when you buy ammo, snotlings come out of little boxes and remanufacture it on the spot, give it to a wizard who enchants it and them a troll loads it in to the gun. whenever you fire it, a kitten dies.

Jhoria Englside
Caldari
Posted - 2009.03.03 14:40:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Mish'Kala
Simple RP explaination is this.

when you buy 2000 units of small ammo you are buying 2000 x 0.005M3 of ammo in the caliber your guns require Not 2000 rounds od ammo.

If that doesnt float you boat, then when you buy ammo, snotlings come out of little boxes and remanufacture it on the spot, give it to a wizard who enchants it and them a troll loads it in to the gun. whenever you fire it, a kitten dies.

best description of my guns to date

Irida Mershkov
Gallente
The Reformed
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.04 01:03:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
This is what I fit to my Rifter.

I see your 280mm nuclear artillery and raise you a nuclear rifle.


SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE, IT'S NOT OVER YET!

Cor Aidan
Shore Leave
Posted - 2009.03.04 01:54:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Jimer Lins
Well, at .005 m3, you could fit 200 small charges into a cubic meter. That would mean if they were cubes, they'd be 5 cm x 5 cm, which they're not. But since the charges fit in guns from 75 to 150mm, I'm not sure they're specifically sized. From the description in-game, they're somehow processed by the gun before it's fired, depending on whether it's a rail or blaster.

For a picture, I'd say that they'd probably be about the size of a soda can.



Where do you find these 5-liter soda cans!?

Clay Orpheus
Posted - 2009.03.04 02:10:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Cor Aidan
Originally by: Jimer Lins
Well, at .005 m3, you could fit 200 small charges into a cubic meter. That would mean if they were cubes, they'd be 5 cm x 5 cm, which they're not. But since the charges fit in guns from 75 to 150mm, I'm not sure they're specifically sized. From the description in-game, they're somehow processed by the gun before it's fired, depending on whether it's a rail or blaster.

For a picture, I'd say that they'd probably be about the size of a soda can.



Where do you find these 5-liter soda cans!?


This. Fail math is fail, Jimer.


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