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Endless Subversion
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.02.26 21:48:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Endless Subversion on 16/03/2009 02:20:21
Edited by: Endless Subversion on 16/03/2009 02:13:35
My corp is a pirate corp. Pretty much everyone is below -5. My corp is also in the Amarr Militia.

RRing my corp mates not only GCC flags me and gives me a sec hit it also gives me a FACTION hit with Amarr empire.

After enough of these hits (which no one noticed) we dropped below the necessary .5 corp standing and got kicked out of Amarr militia, FOR RRing CORPMATES!

We aren't shooting amarr militia members and we have petitioned this and we got a WORKING AS INTENDED message from a GM.


****UPDATE****

RRing a corpmate gives us a faction hit, even if that corpmate had never aggressed us!

****End Update****

Really and truly? This is an INTENDED feature?


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.02.26 21:56:00 - [2]
 

Sometimes you just wish you could slap low-level CCP staff for being just barely better than automatons... Crying or Very sad

Lance Fighter
Amarr
Posted - 2009.02.26 22:06:00 - [3]
 

I vaugely remember a post in oope about keeping track of devs/prodding them by means of internet... arg curse my crappy memory.

mcnuggetlol
Amarr
Via Crucis Inc.
Posted - 2009.02.26 22:07:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Sometimes you just wish you could collectively slap the EVE community for being just barely more bearable than self immolation... Crying or Very sad



Fixed that for you

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.02.26 22:13:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 26/02/2009 22:14:44


Yes, because a GM and/or bugreport filing person that is unable to understand what's being reported, and instead of trying to pass it on to somebody who would, or at least asking for further clarification simply rejects it out of hand with a copypasta reply... that's much better, isn't it ?

I mean, seriously, just HOW BRAINDEAD do you have to be to consider that RRing corpmates, regardless of secstatus (while in a corp that's ENLISTED IN THE AMARR MILITIA) resulting in faction standing DROP towards Amarr Empire is an intended game mechanic ?



Working as described, yes.
Working as the current rules say, yes.
Unfortunate side-effect of OTHER intended game mechanics, yes.
INTENDED game mechanic, HELL NO.

Endless Subversion
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.02.26 22:16:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Endless Subversion on 26/02/2009 22:17:56
Personally what I think is happening, since not every RR seems to generate a faction hit is this:

Corp mate shoots me for whatever reason, stray drone in the RR gang or just messing around.

Sometime in the next 15 minutes I RR him and take a standing hit for RRing a player who has shot an Amarr Militia member.

This makes sense (GM's reply doesn't) but again, really shouldn't be happening.

I'd very much like to continue playing in the militia, as FW is loads of fun, but can't becuase of this crummy game mehcanic. It's really intended?!!

Orbit Uranus
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.02.26 22:23:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Orbit Uranus on 26/02/2009 22:25:13
OFF TOPIC

Side question to your lowsec FW players, do you get alot of friendly fire? i sure did get it alot when i was in FW w/ caldari with my -9.9 sec status

FW is alot of fun an i would love to get back in it

Tzar'rim
Posted - 2009.02.26 22:25:00 - [8]
 

CCP's logic moves in mysterious ways...

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.02.26 22:26:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 26/02/2009 22:27:30
Originally by: Endless Subversion
crummy game mehcanic. It's really intended?!!

You know, sort of.
Originally by: Akita T
Unfortunate side-effect of OTHER intended game mechanics, yes.
INTENDED game mechanic, HELL NO.

This.
Originally by: Tzar'rim
CCP's logic moves in mysterious ways...

Indeed Confused

Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2009.02.26 22:33:00 - [10]
 

Apparently you got hold of GM Jellyfish-for-brain. I would suggest you petition for an escalation.

P.S. I once accidentally petitioned a bug/missing feature to the GMs and also got the copy/paste reply "working as intended". As I had noticed my error I also filled out a bug report and here I got the answer that indeed nothing was "working as intended."Rolling Eyes

Akiba Penrose
The Praxis Initiative
Posted - 2009.02.26 22:41:00 - [11]
 

I recommend filing a bug report.

It seems many of the petition GM's only know about basic game mechanics. In my experience if you file a petition about faction standing mechanincs, the answers tend to be very random.

The bug-hunter dudes will give you a straight answer tho,, they know their stuff Wink

Graelyn
Amarr
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2009.02.26 22:54:00 - [12]
 

This is awesome, actually. Cool

Feilamya
Pain Elemental
Posted - 2009.02.26 23:06:00 - [13]
 

Protip: Don't be -5

Frozen Fallout
Gallente
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
Posted - 2009.02.26 23:07:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Frozen Fallout on 26/02/2009 23:08:01
Originally by: Endless Subversion
Edited by: Endless Subversion on 26/02/2009 22:17:56
Personally what I think is happening, since not every RR seems to generate a faction hit is this:

Corp mate shoots me for whatever reason, stray drone in the RR gang or just messing around.

Sometime in the next 15 minutes I RR him and take a standing hit for RRing a player who has shot an Amarr Militia member.

This makes sense (GM's reply doesn't) but again, really shouldn't be happening.

I'd very much like to continue playing in the militia, as FW is loads of fun, but can't becuase of this crummy game mehcanic. It's really intended?!!


I bolded what I found of interest in this statement.

If this is the case then the GM was correct, it is working as intended. The reason you are taking sec hits is because you are supporting a criminal of the Amarr.

If some one in the Amarr shoots or attacks an Amarr they are then deemed an Enemy of the Amarr.

Think of it this way. If one of the corps in Amarr FW turns rogue and starts a RR battle with some ships only RRing the rogue ships that are attacking Loyal Amarr FW pilots. Don't you think they should be flagged and take an Amarr standings hit?

IMHO you should work with your corp to build up standing and make sure you guys stop "messing around" and make sure you don't shoot each other. Now in the heat of battle it can be harder to not shoot someone you are RRing if you don't pay attention but this should be rare and should improve over time. As for any messing around or testing setups use the test sever.

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2009.02.26 23:19:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Rodj Blake on 26/02/2009 23:19:10

This mechanic gets my vote of approval.

Piracy and militia membership should be incompatible with each other in my opinion.

Endless Subversion
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.02.26 23:39:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Endless Subversion on 26/02/2009 23:41:05
Quote:

If this is the case then the GM was correct, it is working as intended. The reason you are taking sec hits is because you are supporting a criminal of the Amarr.

If some one in the Amarr shoots or attacks an Amarr they are then deemed an Enemy of the Amarr.


No they aren't. My corp is a player corp. This means we can shoot one another, anywhere, without GCC or standing hit. If I shoot my buddies in my corp, I dont get a standing hit. It's only if they RR me after I have shot them that standings are lost.

Quote:
Think of it this way. If one of the corps in Amarr FW turns rogue and starts a RR battle with some ships only RRing the rogue ships that are attacking Loyal Amarr FW pilots. Don't you think they should be flagged and take an Amarr standings hit?


Yes. But I'm aggressing MY CORP MATES and taking faction hits for them then repping me. There are no non-corp amarr members involved. And we're a player corp.

Quote:
IMHO you should work with your corp to build up standing and make sure you guys stop "messing around" and make sure you don't shoot each other. Now in the heat of battle it can be harder to not shoot someone you are RRing if you don't pay attention but this should be rare and should improve over time. As for any messing around or testing setups use the test sever.


Look bud, we're a pvp corp. We're not going to farm standings every few weeks because we randomly lose them for RRing each other. I'm not even 100% sure this IS the reason why we're taking faction hits, it's just the corp's pet theory

. The GM's response just said it's because we're pirate. I think, if that were true, we'd have lost more. I can't test it anymore, cause we got militia kicked. Plus these are FACTION hits of -.75 each time we rep. That's 16 missions per time we remote rep. You've got to be kidding me.

An Anarchyyt
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.02.26 23:53:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Endless Subversion
Look bud, we're a pvp corp. We're not going to farm standings every few weeks because we randomly lose them for RRing each other. I'm not even 100% sure this IS the reason why we're taking faction hits, it's just the corp's pet theory


Leet Empire PvP is pretty leet.

Solomon XI
Hidden Souls
Posted - 2009.02.27 00:06:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Endless Subversion
My corp is a pirate corp. Pretty much everyone is below -5. My corp is also in the Amarr Militia.

RRing my corp mates not only GCC flags me and gives me a sec hit it also gives me a FACTION hit with Amarr empire.

After enough of these hits (which no one noticed) we dropped below the necessary .5 corp standing and got kicked out of Amarr militia, FOR RRing CORPMATES!

We aren't shooting amarr militia members and we have petitioned this and we got a WORKING AS INTENDED message from a GM.

Really and truly? This is an INTENDED feature?




Escalate to a senior GM. Sounds to me like you received a typical copy & paste response which is usually always unacceptable.

You shouldn't receive a standing decrease for shooting, remote repping, or otherwise ... not when dealing with corporation members. The fact you are negative security to begin with shouldn't effect it. Also considering you're losing standings with Amarr in the process? Yeah, I'd say that's a pretty big bug. Harass them until an actual developer clarifies.

Khlitouris RegusII
Posted - 2009.02.27 00:44:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Solomon XI
Originally by: Endless Subversion
My corp is a pirate corp. Pretty much everyone is below -5. My corp is also in the Amarr Militia.

RRing my corp mates not only GCC flags me and gives me a sec hit it also gives me a FACTION hit with Amarr empire.

After enough of these hits (which no one noticed) we dropped below the necessary .5 corp standing and got kicked out of Amarr militia, FOR RRing CORPMATES!

We aren't shooting amarr militia members and we have petitioned this and we got a WORKING AS INTENDED message from a GM.

Really and truly? This is an INTENDED feature?




Escalate to a senior GM. Sounds to me like you received a typical copy & paste response which is usually always unacceptable.

You shouldn't receive a standing decrease for shooting, remote repping, or otherwise ... not when dealing with corporation members. The fact you are negative security to begin with shouldn't effect it. Also considering you're losing standings with Amarr in the process? Yeah, I'd say that's a pretty big bug. Harass them until an actual developer clarifies.


I petitioned this back when fw first started apparently outlaw secs overrides any other sec status corp standings whether your in the same corp or not.

Malthros Zenobia
Posted - 2009.02.27 00:57:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Originally by: Endless Subversion
Look bud, we're a pvp corp. We're not going to farm standings every few weeks because we randomly lose them for RRing each other. I'm not even 100% sure this IS the reason why we're taking faction hits, it's just the corp's pet theory


Leet Empire PvP is pretty leet.


Bolded the important part. OP's upset and is going on a theory.


My theory? You're confusing CONCORD (don't care about you shooting each other) with NPC corp/faction membership mechanics. I bet the Amarr Empire doesn't like you RRing outlaws, or shooting their lackeys (your corp members).


Don't confuse CONCORD and their sec-status/pwn your face mechanics, with NPC corp/faction mechanics. I'd bet both work entirely differently (such as with CONCORD blowing you up for shooting a fellow NPC corp member). What you're suffering may very well be working as intended.

Besides, why are you joining a militia, to not get sentry fire when killing/pirating minmatar and gallente militia members?

Sargeant HAmmer
Caldari
Caldari Star Industries Co
Posted - 2009.02.27 01:20:00 - [21]
 

dont do what i did

buy a raven
fit it with 3 ccc's for the first time ever
go into a mission with shield rep drones
send drones to rep enemy

this now kills you.

Endless Subversion
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.02.27 01:25:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Endless Subversion on 27/02/2009 01:46:15
Edited by: Endless Subversion on 27/02/2009 01:33:08
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia

Bolded the important part. OP's upset and is going on a theory.


My theory? You're confusing CONCORD (don't care about you shooting each other) with NPC corp/faction membership mechanics. I bet the Amarr Empire doesn't like you RRing outlaws, or shooting their lackeys (your corp members).


Don't confuse CONCORD and their sec-status/pwn your face mechanics, with NPC corp/faction mechanics. I'd bet both work entirely differently (such as with CONCORD blowing you up for shooting a fellow NPC corp member). What you're suffering may very well be working as intended.

Besides, why are you joining a militia, to not get sentry fire when killing/pirating minmatar and gallente militia members?


Zoe noes, the carebears are angry. He's a pirate, therefore anything that happens to him is deserved/intended.

I'm not confusing security status hits and Amarr Faction hits. We are getting GCC flagged, taking a security hit AND taking an Amarr Faction standing hit for this.

Amarr faction doesn't give a toss if you RR an outlaw, nor does any other faction, UNTIL you're in the militia. So, in otherwords, if I was using neutral remote reppers they'd have no standing hit at all. Yet when I use a corp member, in the militia and who everyone else can shoot, he gets a faction hit. WTF ?

And finally, no where has CCP stated that the faction militas aren't for pirates to enjoy as well.

Get off your ****ign high horse and learn to succeed at the game rather than moan about pirates.

Endless Subversion
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.02.27 01:30:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Sargeant HAmmer
dont do what i did

buy a raven
fit it with 3 ccc's for the first time ever
go into a mission with shield rep drones
send drones to rep enemy

this now kills you.


This is in low sec

Mezikk
Earned In Blood
Posted - 2009.02.27 01:34:00 - [24]
 

Would be nice if the global aggression stayed but sec and faction hits didn't. Seems kinda stupid atm.

Avaricia
The Accursed
Space Jerks
Posted - 2009.02.27 01:56:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Mezikk
Would be nice if the global aggression stayed but sec and faction hits didn't. Seems kinda stupid atm.
the gcc is fine, when we're in a rr gang fighting a blob, the 352 dps and occasional drone loss is nothing.

for all you people that can't read, or think being outlaw has anything to do with it, let me explain it again.

>player a is in corp with player b, in a militia
>player a shoots player b to test a setup, no gcc or other agression to NPC results
>player b shoots back, still no gcc/npc agression
>player a repairs player b
>player a takes 0.75% standing loss for repairing his corp mate that shot at him for assisting someone (player b) that was shooting his militia (player a)

we're aware that this is the source of our losses because the standing transaction log tells you what ship was assisted, when, where, and what it was shooting at. theres no other amarr milita anywhere near us, its not some crazy mixup. the log says i was repairing a dominix at a time and in a place i know i was repairing a specific person, who was shooting ME.

doctorstupid2
The Accursed
Posted - 2009.02.27 02:04:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: doctorstupid2 on 27/02/2009 02:09:23
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Originally by: Endless Subversion
Look bud, we're a pvp corp. We're not going to farm standings every few weeks because we randomly lose them for RRing each other. I'm not even 100% sure this IS the reason why we're taking faction hits, it's just the corp's pet theory


Leet Empire PvP is pretty leet.


Bolded the important part. OP's upset and is going on a theory.


My theory? You're confusing CONCORD (don't care about you shooting each other) with NPC corp/faction membership mechanics. I bet the Amarr Empire doesn't like you RRing outlaws, or shooting their lackeys (your corp members).


Don't confuse CONCORD and their sec-status/pwn your face mechanics, with NPC corp/faction mechanics. I'd bet both work entirely differently (such as with CONCORD blowing you up for shooting a fellow NPC corp member). What you're suffering may very well be working as intended.

Besides, why are you joining a militia, to not get sentry fire when killing/pirating minmatar and gallente militia members?
Your theory is terrible.

See here: Linkage

Believe it or not, I know exactly what I was doing at that time and place.

Plus of course the fact we don't take hits to gallente or caldari for repairing corp mates that are shooting at them.

Asume Nosami
Posted - 2009.02.27 02:06:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Asume Nosami on 27/02/2009 02:06:45
Originally by: Avaricia

>player a is in corp with player b, in a militia
>player a shoots player b to test a setup, no gcc or other agression to NPC results
>player b shoots back, still no gcc/npc agression
>player a repairs player b
>player a takes 0.75% standing loss for repairing his corp mate that shot at him for assisting someone (player b) that was shooting his militia (player a)

we're aware that this is the source of our losses because the standing transaction log tells you what ship was assisted, when, where, and what it was shooting at. theres no other amarr milita anywhere near us, its not some crazy mixup. the log says i was repairing a dominix at a time and in a place i know i was repairing a specific person, who was shooting ME.


Thats a bug. You two are in the SAME CORPORATION. It's a bug, pure and simple. Escalate to a senior GM and demand a dev response on the forums.

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2009.02.27 02:36:00 - [28]
 

While we are on the topic. I find it bizarre that -10 A get GCC for repping -10 B (because B is so evil concord see it as a crime to assist him) but do not shoot -10 B himself.

If a player is considered so evil that to assist him triggers a response, why does he not deserve a GCC himself simply for being there.

TBH there should be no penalty for a -10 repping a -10.

SKUNK

Johnny Sakk
Posted - 2009.02.27 04:33:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Originally by: Endless Subversion
Look bud, we're a pvp corp. We're not going to farm standings every few weeks because we randomly lose them for RRing each other. I'm not even 100% sure this IS the reason why we're taking faction hits, it's just the corp's pet theory


Leet Empire PvP is pretty leet.


Player: An Anarchyyt
Kills: 53
Losses: 12

leet pvper is leet

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2009.02.27 05:05:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Akita T

Originally by: Akita T
Unfortunate side-effect of OTHER intended game mechanics, yes.
INTENDED game mechanic, HELL NO.

This.


nice self quote Laughing

but I agree, messed up


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