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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2009.02.16 17:45:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Halycon Gamma
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Rude Bwoy
instead of running a windows 'node' on each blade, incurring Windows license fees / all that patching, why don't you use two whopping big UNIX boxes ?

And you should totally administer it, because you seem to know what you are talking about.

CCP, hire this guy!


Because when CCP decided to build Eve, they decided to be a MS house. Now add in many many years of constant development, and you get lots of microsoft only widgets all over the place. Its not impossible for CCP to one day to suddenly decide "we're gunna run *nix servers!", but the longer and longer you get away from that initial start date of eve, the harder it gets. MS does nothing if not constantly add in more and more MS only non standard commands and ideas to everything it touches. Which in turn CCP would be insane not to implement because some of them really do make work faster and easier.

So you get more and more MS calls in database etc. Until no you simply can't switch because the man hours it would take to restart from scratch on a different platform is a huge undertaking.

Same reason they dropped Linux support, and Apple support could be dropped sooner or later too. By welding themselves to DX and other third party windows apps, they are constantly moving farther and farther away from an OS agnostic system. The company they pay for the wrappers can't actually make it work as well as anyone would want because of licensing that MS won't give. You run into all sorts of IP problems. Since the moment it came out, linux version of Eve has ran better on a third party emulator software than what CCP shipped. Probably similar on the apple side.

I'm not saying all this stuff is bad, it just IS. When CCP started building eve, DX was the latest and greatest thing on the market with the lowest point of entry. OpenGL was in one of its occasional slumps from the committee style of development it uses, and waiting for it to catch up would have taken ages. No-one had too much faith in Linux as a heavy server OS yet, web-server, sure. But people were only just starting to play with it as a dedicated database platform. And true Unix Platforms such as AIX, Solaris, or something similar required huge investments of hardware capital that most people simply can't afford for a startup untested company like CCP; on a game they weren't ever sure would work. x86 servers, with MS as the OS was, and IS, the logical choice.

Now, 8-9 years later, the hardware software market is a completely different world than it was then. But once you've made your choices, your sorta stuck with them unless you want to invest millions of dollars in undoing them. And for now and the immediate future, MS stuff works for them.

Why mess with it?

Exactly my point, only with more sarcasm Razz

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.02.16 17:50:00 - [32]
 

the sad part is that there brand new blades are already obsolete. . . .*

but seriously keep up the good work guys!

*What? Its computer hardware, its obsolete the second they design it.

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2009.02.16 17:53:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: DrAtomic
Could your pretty pretty pretty please take some pix to share with us from the racks (both front and behind) next time you guys are in London? Or pix or stfu as they say! hehehe ;)

I actually told Mindstar to get us some on IRC just an hour ago Razz

Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.02.16 17:58:00 - [34]
 

Do post them here, I'm studying and unable to Irc it.

CCP Fallout

Posted - 2009.02.16 18:04:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Katabrok First
Originally by: CCP Fallout
In the words of the infamous Mindstar... "that's what she said!"

Speaking of Mindstar, he's just published a new blog on what's coming with Thursday's extended downtime.

So what is coming? A brand new RamSan. What does that mean exactly? The death of database lag... shorter expansion deployments... shorter morning downtimes! And, most importantly, a very excited and happy Mindstar!


Ok man, will it be thursday or wednesday? In the news linked in your post, it says wednesday, not thursday.

Thanks



It's Wednesday. I got the day wrong initially. Sorry for any confusion.

Zex Maxwell
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.16 18:18:00 - [36]
 

Quote:
meaning the entire EVE database will be run from solid-state storage! Awesome!


NO WAY!

after reading the blog: I'm not sure if i heard this right back in school. but.
I know solid-state drives are faster and all, but isn't there a higher chance for solid-state drives to fail then normal drives?

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2009.02.16 18:21:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Zex Maxwell
Quote:
meaning the entire EVE database will be run from solid-state storage! Awesome!


NO WAY!

after reading the blog: I'm not sure if i heard this right back in school. but.
I know solid-state drives are faster and all, but isn't there a higher chance for solid-state drives to fail then normal drives?

Lets see:

A normal hard-drive has has moving parts.

A solid-state drive doesn't.

A solid-state drive is basically a whole bunch of RAM.

Dari Anoh
Amarr
Anoh Shavar
Posted - 2009.02.16 18:23:00 - [38]
 

I know this proves what a geek I am, but... whoohoo! Awesome blog! Very Happy

Washell Olivaw
Posted - 2009.02.16 18:36:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Cergorach
A question about the Ramsan 400 vs. 500 performance.

Here: http://www.superssd.com/products_sub.htm
It looks like that the 400 is faster then the 500, Is that true, or am I missing something? Have you guys start nagging for a Ramsan 5000 ? *grins*


The 400 is faster, but has only a limited capacity. Scaling the technolgy of the 400 to handle 2 TB isn't cost effective.

Kaahles
Deliverers of Pain
Posted - 2009.02.16 18:40:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Zex Maxwell
Quote:
meaning the entire EVE database will be run from solid-state storage! Awesome!


NO WAY!

after reading the blog: I'm not sure if i heard this right back in school. but.
I know solid-state drives are faster and all, but isn't there a higher chance for solid-state drives to fail then normal drives?

Lets see:

A normal hard-drive has has moving parts.

A solid-state drive doesn't.

A solid-state drive is basically a whole bunch of RAM.

This!
Only problem is if power cuts then they are empty afaik but you usually got some UPS for that kind of hardware and if I'm informed corretly they still backup on conventional hard drives all the time.

Morberi
Posted - 2009.02.16 18:43:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Dr Resheph
That's hot.


That`s not.

Katabrok First
Caldari
Apukaray Security
Posted - 2009.02.16 18:44:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: CCP Fallout
Originally by: Katabrok First
blah blah blah


It's Wednesday. I got the day wrong initially. Sorry for any confusion.


MAN!!! I got an answer from a dev!! I'm feeling so special!!!


LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2009.02.16 18:45:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Kaahles

This!
Only problem is if power cuts then they are empty afaik but you usually got some UPS for that kind of hardware and if I'm informed corretly they still backup on conventional hard drives all the time.

I'm sure CCP has some huge-*** UPS' Cool

Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Posted - 2009.02.16 18:59:00 - [44]
 

Just when you though F1 - F8 was good, CCP add F9
Nice one Mindstar Wink

N'olive
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.02.16 19:01:00 - [45]
 

Quote:
In total, we now have 32 of these ultra powerful blades in the cluster - 26 running as SOL blades, and 8 running as Proxy blades.

26+8 = 34, not 32 ;)

Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.02.16 19:10:00 - [46]
 

Darn it!

How would you rate CCP's setup against other similarly sized networks? I need to know how much epeen I can throw around!

Matthew
Caldari
BloodStar Technologies
Posted - 2009.02.16 19:18:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: LaVista Vista
A normal hard-drive has has moving parts.

A solid-state drive doesn't.

A solid-state drive is basically a whole bunch of RAM.


I imagine the concern is more the flash memory side of the Ramsan 500, rather than the RAM. Which may have been valid a few years ago. However, with modern wear-levelling extending the usable life and bad block retirement ensuring the drive degrades gracefully (and can even tell you when it's going to break before it happens) rather than dropping data, flash-based drives in this price range are far more reliable than normal hard drives.

And just to be sure, the ones in the Ramsan 500 are put into a RAID 3 array for an extra factor of redundancy.

Originally by: Kaahles
Only problem is if power cuts then they are empty afaik but you usually got some UPS for that kind of hardware and if I'm informed corretly they still backup on conventional hard drives all the time.


The 400 backs up it's DDR RAM to normal hard drives, the 500 backs up it's RAM to Flash drives, and yes, both continually back up the RAM to the non-volatile drives, so only the latest writes where the hard drives can't keep up are at risk of being lost to the RAM losing power.

However, the 500 has two independent UPS units internal to the RAMSAN itself, and the 400 has three. Any of which is capable of sustaining the RAMSAN long enough to copy the entire contents of the RAM back to the non-volatile storage.

So for a power failure to wipe any data from the RAMSAN, it would have to involve the failure of all internal UPS units simultaneously, and whatever UPS system is serving the data centre as a whole.

Altomat
Posted - 2009.02.16 19:21:00 - [48]
 

How much performance improvement do you except
for the Nehalem Blades over the Wolfdales?
If they perform nicely, will the remaining AMD blades
upgraded to Nehalem ones?

Altomat

Galliana Foresta
Gallente
Fleeting Moments of Insanity
Posted - 2009.02.16 19:23:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Galliana Foresta on 16/02/2009 19:23:48
Awesome. With all this new stuff, the lag in FW systems is non existant!

Oh, wait.

Confused

xXApophisXx
Minmatar
Interplanetary Trade Commission
Posted - 2009.02.16 19:27:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: xXApophisXx on 16/02/2009 19:27:36
When can we expect to see this new cool looking website you (being all mighty 1 hit KO CCP Devs) displayed at FanFest... You guys said it was like myspace/facebook and other sites but eve'd up!

So where you pirates buried yer treasure?
YARRRR!!YARRRR!!YARRRR!!YARRRR!!

Splender Jones
Amarr
Posted - 2009.02.16 19:42:00 - [51]
 

Yeah pics would be nice :)

xXApophisXx
Minmatar
Interplanetary Trade Commission
Posted - 2009.02.16 19:52:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Splender Jones
Yeah pics would be nice :)


soooooo true..... we need more images of things to come... i keep sayin it!

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2009.02.16 20:09:00 - [53]
 

Ohhhhh Mindy

<3

ohhhh
Originally by: http://www.superssd.com/products/ramsan-400/
It plugs into servers or fabrics through basic Fibre Channel or InfiniBand connections


ramsan works with InfiniBand, now when does that come Very Happy

Sazumaan Johnza
Minmatar
Capital Construction Research
Pioneer Alliance
Posted - 2009.02.16 20:16:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

<3

ohhhh

Originally by: http://www.superssd.com/products/ramsan-400/
It plugs into servers or fabrics through basic Fibre Channel or InfiniBand connections


ramsan works with InfiniBand, now when does that come Very Happy


True, true - was just gonna ask the same! :)

Jei'son Bladesmith
The Storm Knights
The Cool Kids Club
Posted - 2009.02.16 20:16:00 - [55]
 

ooooohhhhhh Smile
aaaaaahhhhh Surprised
ooooooooooo Very Happy
AAARRGGGHHH Shocked
.....
.....
.....
I think i just ****ed in mah pantz Embarassed

Arana Tellen
Gallente
Clan Death Corps
Posted - 2009.02.16 20:18:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Kaahles

This!
Only problem is if power cuts then they are empty afaik but you usually got some UPS for that kind of hardware and if I'm informed corretly they still backup on conventional hard drives all the time.

I'm sure CCP has some huge-*** UPS' Cool


Its not really like ram at all tbh, its just really reliable and fast flash.

Kweel Nakashyn
shadow and cloaking
Yggdrasill.
Posted - 2009.02.16 20:35:00 - [57]
 

Oh Mindy ! <3

Oracle or DB2 are faster than crappy windows SQL 2003, too bad you choose the dark side Rolling Eyes Cool

CCP Mindstar

Posted - 2009.02.16 20:40:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: N'olive
Quote:
In total, we now have 32 of these ultra powerful blades in the cluster - 26 running as SOL blades, and 8 running as Proxy blades.

26+8 = 34, not 32 ;)


I'm good at servers not addition Embarassed

CCP Mindstar

Posted - 2009.02.16 20:49:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Altomat
How much performance improvement do you except
for the Nehalem Blades over the Wolfdales?
If they perform nicely, will the remaining AMD blades
upgraded to Nehalem ones?

Altomat


That is actually a big unknown for us at this point. We have had various experts in the field claiming anything between a 5% and 100%+ performance increase.

One of the things about the EVE server is that it is essentially a single-threaded app at this point in time. The Wolfdales are very good for EVE as they are simply very high clock speeds. The newer processors coming out from AMD and Intel tend to focus more on multiple cores than on high clock speed. That is great for multi-threaded applications, but not so much for EVE.

The Nehalems do have a few interesting tricks up their sleeve - like turning off all but 1 core and then overclocking the one that is still running - which may give us quite a boost. Until we get some real world tests in, we don't really have any solid idea.


The current AMDs within the cluster are quite fine for their task, but they will eventually need replacing at some point. When we need to replace them, we will have really good knowledge through testing of the best processors to put in.

Lord Matrix
Flying Banana Squad
Posted - 2009.02.16 20:58:00 - [60]
 

Clock for clock, Nehalem CPUs are about 5-10% faster than previous generation. The improvement is greater in multithreading applications.


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