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blankseplocked A brief expression of "So whats the point?"
 
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Aphoticus
Posted - 2009.02.25 00:32:00 - [61]
 

Greetings,

I thought I read somewhere that the skill point lost is only by one step; 1 to 0, 2 to 1, etc.

Can this be confirmed? I also read somewhere that if it did bring it to 0, when it does happen and you loose the skill, that there is no point to raising it above 1 that way the regain time is like 15-20 minutes?

Also, and I may be mistaken, that you don't have to buy the skill again, just set it to learn again?

Not that this has any real bearing on the original post, but seeing that I have no experience with T3 and only read these forums, I have nothing further to say.

Except that one thing I have learned in my copious years of life is that if it is there, then someone will use it. With use, change is bound to happen.

With all the "rumors" does anyone know what will actually come of the March Expansion, or are we all speculating?

My wife speculates all the time. I am constantly assaulted with "What if..." and I got to say this, "What's the point," is just another "What if" until it happens.

But then I am just an Exclamation Point.

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.02.25 01:10:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Clair Bear
100% agreed. Without new game mechanics requiring t3 modular ships (read: more locked gates to artifical arena-y combat zones) this bird isn't going to fly.

People have already guestimated the cost of t3 cruisers simply from mining the gas clouds. They used the ISK/hour figure 1.5x veld mining in empire to arrive at a half billion ISK build cost valuing sleeper drops at 0 ISK and not taking POS operating cost into account. My guestimate is the ISK/hour of miners willing to brave w-space will be more than 30M/hour they can currently get mining crokite in deep alliance space. Adding in profit, POS costs, and sleeper component & BPC costs I wouldn't be shocked to see the initial t3 cruisers roll off the assembly line at around 5 billion per, dropping to 1-2B or so over time. Remember that the ferrogel equivalent of sleeper salvage will only drop from 0.0 wormhole rats which currently take a capship blob to whack.

1B. For a cruiser. Most of which are not clearly superior to a HAC or BC, let alone BS, marauder, carrier or dread. I mean, seriously. What can a cruiser accomplish that 5-10 carriers can not?

These will be spun in station by collectors if what's on SiSi now is even remotely close to what hits tranq. Devs are currently at least an order of magnitude off on either cost or performance of these bad boys. Possibly two orders of magnitude.


or to put it another way. you have a Cruiser thats going to be called primary by any half way compitent PvP gang just to set the idiot whos flying it back 1 billion.

said cruiser by the way being not as effective as a t2 BC (or in some cases as a T1 Battle cruiser

all of which requires you to go wormhole fishing. . . only problem is that while you can scan down wholes in the first place no one no the test server is realy bothering with them unless a GM showes up so you can get your egg out of Wspace.

is it just me or is it turning out that the only real feature of this that is realy going to be ready is the "Epic mission arc" that is for new players only?

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2009.02.25 01:58:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Aphoticus
Greetings,

I thought I read somewhere that the skill point lost is only by one step; 1 to 0, 2 to 1, etc.

Can this be confirmed?

Confirmed


Originally by: Aphoticus
I also read somewhere that if it did bring it to 0, when it does happen and you loose the skill, that there is no point to raising it above 1 that way the regain time is like 15-20 minutes?

Well you never lose the skill books.
You kinda need the skills between lvl 3-4, for instance, on the proteus, with lvl 4 skills in offensive subsystems, your only doing 5% more turret damage than a thorax or a deimos at HAC skill lvl 1 (unless you add an engineering subsystem that gives you 2 more turrets, but results in you having 3-4 mids and lows) - all currently without a functioning drone bay.



Originally by: Aphoticus
Also, and I may be mistaken, that you don't have to buy the skill again, just set it to learn again?

C, See above

Originally by: Aphoticus
Except that one thing I have learned in my copious years of life is that if it is there, then someone will use it. With use, change is bound to happen.

I'll probably own one, but then again i'm a ship collector.

Originally by: Aphoticus
With all the "rumors" does anyone know what will actually come of the March Expansion, or are we all speculating?

It's leaving the relms of speculation, there are bonuses in testing atm, and there doesn't seem to be any acknowledgement of feedback atm, so it's the same pattern as with t2 ammo, blackop's etc.

Originally by: Aphoticus
But then I am just an Exclamation Point.
We we're all one once.

Max Hardcase
The Scope
Posted - 2009.02.25 19:07:00 - [64]
 

What would have made sense was having modular ships with a base of T2 ( ie. using T2 production schemes).
And then having Wormhole resources make better stuff available for going into said base hulls. Originally T3 was being tauted as T2 with better heat resistance. Add some stuff for T3 like better base resistances, sensor str, 5% extra performance over T2 gear for selected modules. etc etc.

What we have now is very exclusive for the amount of dev time going into it. Not too mention the final in-game production costs for something that hovers somewhat between T2 cruisers and T1/T2 BC's.

Nerogk Shorn
Caldari
Invicta.
Posted - 2009.02.26 00:34:00 - [65]
 

Good Point. A much as I was previously hoping for a ship capable for total solo helldeath, but i've realized that want I want much more than just a better "more of the same" i'd like something... different and unique. Are these subsystem modules really going to offer that? Somehow i doubt it. I agree, they should make some of the barely used ships... well functionable. I mean who, honestly flies a Tempest, Ferox, or Scorpion any more? Other ships can do their "roles" much better, while being able to also fufill other roles.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.02.26 11:01:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: flashfreaking
tl;dr version please?
Need to know if this wall is worth reading
thank you


The tl;dr is that all the Cruiser niches have been filled with a T2 ship already, so for t3 ships to be worthwhile they will have to obselete some or all of the T2 cruisers.

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2009.03.08 15:59:00 - [67]
 

With just 48 hours left to go, T3 is currently teetering between a precipice (Being ****, thus W-space being a waste of time) and a boiling sea (OP death machines).

Barring any last minute grand hail mary style pass, i'll be writing a report on the state of t3, how this happened, and what it means... and it will be damming.


Santiago Fahahrri
Gallente
Galactic Geographic
Posted - 2009.03.08 16:02:00 - [68]
 

The point is - 'cause it's cool.

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.03.08 16:09:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Pattern Clarc
With just 48 hours left to go, T3 is currently teetering between a precipice (Being ****, thus W-space being a waste of time) and a boiling sea (OP death machines).

Barring any last minute grand hail mary style pass, i'll be writing a report on the state of t3, how this happened, and what it means... and it will be damming.


How quickley people forget how everyone said the new battlecruisers and battleships were all over/underpowered just a day before launch and then ccp released them exactly as they wanted to all along. Remember the pages and pages over things like "omg drake has 8 launchers a rof bonus and a resist bonus with a fast base recharge rate omgomg op op op op op op!!!!1111 CCP u sux if this released rabblerabblerabble!" just one day before release?

CCP is trolling you all with the t3 stats on sisi. ugh

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2009.03.08 16:13:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Zeba
Remember the pages and pages over things like "omg drake has 8 launchers a rof bonus and a resist bonus with a fast base recharge rate omgomg op op op op op op!!!!1111 CCP u sux if this released rabblerabblerabble!" just one day before release?

I don't see very many ferox pilots these days... And how hard did the myrmidon get nerfed?

Even then, those ships did fill valid niche's that weren't properly forcilled by other classes of ships at the time... Where as t3...

Korizan
Hysterically Unforgiving
Posted - 2009.03.08 16:21:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Pattern Clarc
With just 48 hours left to go, T3 is currently teetering between a precipice (Being ****, thus W-space being a waste of time) and a boiling sea (OP death machines).

Barring any last minute grand hail mary style pass, i'll be writing a report on the state of t3, how this happened, and what it means... and it will be damming.




You have a right to your opinion but here are a few things to think about.
The number of possible ship combinations is greater then all the other ships in the game.
Some will be good some will be bad.
These are also the first ships to come out.
If T3 is a success then CCP will most likely release other ship sizes.
This is NOT the first time CCP has released only one class of ship.

Worm hole space in itself has all the things people have been asking for.
No local, lots of risk and unknowns.
Some fancy new ships.
ANd more space.

Yes CCP could have just made more space and say here you go.
And the last time they did that (Drone space) it was filled how fast ?
Worm hole space you are going to have to work @.

Worm hole space is NOT for everyone.
For those that take the risk it will be ALOT of fun for others it will just be another patch.
THis will not change in fact it is the norm and patches will become even more focused as EVE becomes more and more complex.

So before you start condemning something, perhaps you should take a broader view.
And look @ on the whole instead of picking it apart because the patch doesn't serve you personally.

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.03.08 16:23:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Originally by: Zeba
Remember the pages and pages over things like "omg drake has 8 launchers a rof bonus and a resist bonus with a fast base recharge rate omgomg op op op op op op!!!!1111 CCP u sux if this released rabblerabblerabble!" just one day before release?

I don't see very many ferox pilots these days... And how hard did the myrmidon get nerfed?

Even then, those ships did fill valid niche's that weren't properly forcilled by other classes of ships at the time... Where as t3...
You are missing the point. you are basing your opinions on things that are not as they will be in the game. To make any kind of judgment call on the lulz incomplete data we have from the test server is like the people emoraging in all those previous new bc/bc threads who promptly shut up after release day when they found out that oops guess ccp had them all moastly balanced after all. As far as the Mrm getting nerfed well thats just a normal responce to the smart player figuring out the op fits like the curse users did long ago before the nos nerf. Wait till they are in the game with the stats ccp really intends them to have and let the playerbase stew over them for a few months then come back and make a call on thier usefullness. Tbh methinks Pattern is just ****ed that he couldn't pop any of those dratted uber tanked tengus at the ffa. Razz

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2009.03.08 16:34:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Originally by: Zeba
Remember the pages and pages over things like "omg drake has 8 launchers a rof bonus and a resist bonus with a fast base recharge rate omgomg op op op op op op!!!!1111 CCP u sux if this released rabblerabblerabble!" just one day before release?

I don't see very many ferox pilots these days... And how hard did the myrmidon get nerfed?

Even then, those ships did fill valid niche's that weren't properly forcilled by other classes of ships at the time... Where as t3...
You are missing the point. you are basing your opinions on things that are not as they will be in the game. To make any kind of judgment call on the lulz incomplete data we have from the test server is like the people emoraging in all those previous new bc/bc threads who promptly shut up after release day when they found out that oops guess ccp had them all moastly balanced after all. As far as the Mrm getting nerfed well thats just a normal responce to the smart player figuring out the op fits like the curse users did long ago before the nos nerf. Wait till they are in the game with the stats ccp really intends them to have and let the playerbase stew over them for a few months then come back and make a call on thier usefullness. Tbh methinks Pattern is just ****ed that he couldn't pop any of those dratted uber tanked tengus at the ffa. Razz
What are you talking about?

Sobic
The Flaming Sideburn's
Waterboard
Posted - 2009.03.08 16:37:00 - [74]
 

Quote:
So before you start condemning something, perhaps you should take a broader view. And look @ on the whole instead of picking it apart because the patch doesn't serve you personally.


Pattern has been sh***ing all over T3 on scrapheap as well. It seems he's hoping to cash in "I told you so" points to boost his political CSM clout. Or he just likes being the doomsayer in the room, and it gets him off.

As much as I hate to say it, the Goon said it best. He's made one very elaborate whine!

Jalif
Minmatar
Snuff Box
Posted - 2009.03.08 16:42:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Jalif on 08/03/2009 16:43:19
nvm..

BhallSpawn
Posted - 2009.03.08 16:43:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: BhallSpawn on 08/03/2009 16:44:01
I don't care about any of this
I'm just waiting for caldari (to be specific, missles) to be powerful in pvp.

and no, the falcon doesn't count in this reguard.

Esmenet
Gallente
Posted - 2009.03.08 17:04:00 - [77]
 

I have a feeling w-space and t3 is all based around an attempt to bring back small gang warfare. And when it came to the time to chose a carrot they looked at the most popular pvp shipsize for small gangs and it is cruisers.

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.03.08 17:11:00 - [78]
 

Edited by: Zeba on 08/03/2009 17:41:18
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
What are you talking about?
Oh I guess you are one of the people who are flying them instead of shooting them. Same point though as in what you are flying now is not whats going to be on tq. Besides how can you postulate on its effectivness in a tq enviroment using 100isk ship ffa tactics? Enjoy them like ccp want you to do and then after m10 go back to sisi and test them out. Then make a new thread if you think things are still broken or of no use.

edit: I'm not saying you don't know what your talking about I simply think your taking a stand off the wrong data. ugh


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