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Ebos Detauck
Posted - 2009.02.15 01:52:00 - [1]
 

My main is running missions for Amarr Imperial Academy, and now that I have gotten to 9.0 standings, all the storyline missions are worthless, barely inline with normal missions for payout and loot. I'm wondering if anyone has essentially tried to fail missions intentially to reduce standing to get better storylines, and if so, was it successful.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Karrade Krise
Posted - 2009.02.15 02:18:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Karrade Krise on 15/02/2009 02:35:10


Epic Storylines are going to be in the march 10 release.

ZeusOnRoids
Amarr
The German Star-Fighters
United European Star-Force
Posted - 2009.02.15 02:18:00 - [3]
 

storylines are for standings not for isk

Erika Bronz
Gallente
The Wyld Hunt
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2009.02.15 07:06:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: ZeusOnRoids
storylines are for standings not for isk


0.6402% - Materials For War Preparation
8.05% - A Special Delivery

Take a guess, what one he is given 99% of the time?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.02.15 07:28:00 - [5]
 


Irdia Freelancer
Posted - 2009.02.15 08:27:00 - [6]
 

The problem isn't just the materials for war prep, its partly the players.

What happens is everyone buys ore and has it stashed in the dock where they get their storyline mission. Average time to complete is like 1 minute. This means the standing/reward etc is reduced to the minimum possible. If players took longer for it then it would have more standings and isk rewards.

Erika Bronz
Gallente
The Wyld Hunt
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2009.02.15 08:48:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Irdia Freelancer
The problem isn't just the materials for war prep, its partly the players.

What happens is everyone buys ore and has it stashed in the dock where they get their storyline mission. Average time to complete is like 1 minute. This means the standing/reward etc is reduced to the minimum possible. If players took longer for it then it would have more standings and isk rewards.


Don't blame the players. We are stuck with whatever we get. We did't design the mission and we don't like getting it.

Vhiskey
Caldari
Imperial Forces
Posted - 2009.02.15 09:25:00 - [8]
 

i really dont see the problem. storylines are for standings not for isk. if you want the standing, do them and be happy to gain standing that easy way: mat f war prep is 8k kernite for 260 isk/piece (current price in my region). so you pay ~ 2 mil for your standing. some poeple pay hundreds of millions for tags to gain standing with the data center agents.

if you dont want/need the standing, just dont do them and go on to the next "normal" isk-mission

Ebos Detauck
Posted - 2009.02.15 12:58:00 - [9]
 

Well, the problem to me is this: The Storyline missions I am recieving not only raise my Amarr standing (good), but on the flip side degrade my faction standing with another major power (bad), and I get almost nothing in the trade off. When my faction was much lower, the majority of the Storylines raised my Amarr standing, didn't degrade my other faction standings as much, and I got either a ton of iskies or a nice implant as part of the bargin.

My current faction is plenty high enough for the level four missions I am running, and so I'd like to know if a.) dropping faction down again would improve the chance of getting more rewarding storylines or b.) That there is a period of really crappy storylines that I'll just have to muddle through before I get some REALLY nice ones.

Vhiskey
Caldari
Imperial Forces
Posted - 2009.02.15 13:10:00 - [10]
 

my faction standing is above 9.5 and i get the materials for war preparation as often as when my standing was much lower.

why do you do storylines?

Johann Callasan
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.16 06:35:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Ebos Detauck
Well, the problem to me is this: The Storyline missions I am recieving not only raise my Amarr standing (good), but on the flip side degrade my faction standing with another major power (bad), and I get almost nothing in the trade off. When my faction was much lower, the majority of the Storylines raised my Amarr standing, didn't degrade my other faction standings as much, and I got either a ton of iskies or a nice implant as part of the bargin.


This paragraph indicaes that you really don't understand how standings work, thew way they are intendeed in EvE, or, for that matter, how what you've just described is Working As Intended.

The standings system is DESIGNED ao that it's impossible to have 10.0 standing with all four factions. The highest standing you can have with all 4, providing you work on all 4 factins at the same time via jumpclones, is 6.8 effective.

The percentages you see for standing increases/losses in the Transactions tab are percentages of the of the difference between your current standing, and the maximum possible of 10.0 Similarly, the percentages of losses you see for the opposing factions are percentages - percentages of the difference between your CURRENT standing and the minimum possible for that faction relationship - usually -5.0. So, BY DESIGN, as you increase in one faction the increases get smaller and smaller, while the decreases for the opposing faction get bigger and bigger. THIS IS INTENDED.

That's why it's said that it's very hard to get to 10.0 faction, and REAL easy to lose it.

Quote:
My current faction is plenty high enough for the level four missions I am running, and so I'd like to know if a.) dropping faction down again would improve the chance of getting more rewarding storylines or b.) That there is a period of really crappy storylines that I'll just have to muddle through before I get some REALLY nice ones.


Nice is subjective :)

First off, NOTHING you do will affect what storyline mission you get - it's handled by the random number generator, and there are no external factors other than random tinfoil-hattery by stupidstitious players ugh

Lowering your standings intentionally accomplishes nothing.

What has a GREATER effect is mission completion time on average - which is where Materiels for War Preparation is borked.

Mission rewards and completion times are "weighed" according to the average time-of-completion that other players have done the same mission in - a rough way to measure the mission's difficulty. If NOBODY has run the mission in the last month or so, OR if it takes a while for anyone to complete, the mission time is set to 6 hours and you get the max rewards for it. That's why the tougher missions like Blockade, WC, etc. always have 6 hour completion times - by their very nature they take a while.

However, Materiels for War Preparation is VERY easy, it's always the same mineral per level (Veld for Level 1, Omber for level 2, etc.). Always the same quantities, too.

So, people would find where their storyline agent was, stockpile the minerals there, and wait for that storyline to come around. Fly tot he station, and instant completion. So, the average time-to-completion is VERY short, and you get the MINIMUM rewards. It's a flaw int he way that missions are measured that's been ruthlessly taken advantage of. It's not a exploit...definitely a grey area though.

So, just suffer through it, eventuallythe RNG will turn in your favor. Heck, I've gotten l3 Kidnapper's Strike the last three storylines - enjoyable, but expensive to run. And it gets boring too.

Johann Callasan
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.16 06:38:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Johann Callasan on 16/02/2009 06:41:15
Originally by: Erika Bronz
Originally by: Irdia Freelancer
The problem isn't just the materials for war prep, its partly the players.

What happens is everyone buys ore and has it stashed in the dock where they get their storyline mission. Average time to complete is like 1 minute. This means the standing/reward etc is reduced to the minimum possible. If players took longer for it then it would have more standings and isk rewards.


Don't blame the players. We are stuck with whatever we get. We did't design the mission and we don't like getting it.


Mission rewards are affected by average time-to-completion, and on average Materiels for War Preparation taks abotu 10 minutes.

It gets the MINIMUM rewards because of that, whereas something that takes a while longer, like WC you're alloted the maximum time AND get the maximum award.

It's both a flaw int he way CCP measures mission difficulty to scale rewards, AND the players taking ruthless advantage of that flaw. It's not quite a exploit - but it's definitely a grey area.

Not to mention having gotten prevalent enough to get on CCP's list of Things To Do Something About - eventually :)

Ebos Detauck
Posted - 2009.02.17 06:44:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Johann Callasan
lots of stuff unrelated to the question


Okay. I do understand standings perfectly well. I wasn't asking what you explained, so you didn't understand the question. Perhaps, I should have been a little clearer, but I figured what I was asking could be explained in a simple yes, no format with a small explination about what my viewpoint was correct or why it wasn't.

You missed it and in fact, it amazes me how many of the posters assume a hell of a freekin' lot with out really thinking about how simple the question really was.

Did I in any way shape or form indicate that I was looking to gain equal standings? No. Did I ask about a specific mission like Materials for War Preparation? No. All I asked was that was if lowering my standings would improve my chances of getting the more profitable missions. I also explained that I was running into a situation where I was having to consistantly run Storyline missions where I gained some Amarr standings, but due to the nature of the mission, I am having to lose a sizeable amount of opposition faction.. and the reward for such a sacrifice was not in my opinion worth running the missions anymore. So, I figured maybe there might be a correlation.

Originally by: Johann Callasan
NOTHING you do will affect what storyline mission you get.


Bingo, that is the answer I was looking for, thank you.

Johann Callasan
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.18 01:34:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Ebos Detauck
Originally by: Johann Callasan
lots of stuff unrelated to the question


Okay. I do understand standings perfectly well. I wasn't asking what you explained, so you didn't understand the question. Perhaps, I should have been a little clearer, but I figured what I was asking could be explained in a simple yes, no format with a small explination about what my viewpoint was correct or why it wasn't.


Oh. IO understood the question just fine - after all, you found the answer didn't you?

What I was doing was explaining WHY things were happening, since it seemed like you didn't. What I gave you was:

1) Why the standings losses you were getting were as big as they are;
2) Why the gain you were getting was getting smaller and smaller;
3) That mission selection was governed by the RNG, and NOTHING you did would affect what storylines you got.

If you "understood standings perfectly well", you wouldn't have emntioned that bullcarp about you gains getting smaller/losses getting bigger.

The bit about Materiels for War Prep was to give you a EXAMPLE as to mission rewards being based on average-time-to-completion - not for just you, bot for all of EvE's players.

Either way, you either deliberately posted some red herrings in your OP, or you yourself couldn't keep it as succinct as you wanted the answers to be.

Either way, you got your answer.


Quote:
You missed it and in fact, it amazes me how many of the posters assume a hell of a freekin' lot with out really thinking about how simple the question really was.

Did I in any way shape or form indicate that I was looking to gain equal standings? No. Did I ask about a specific mission like Materials for War Preparation? No. All I asked was that was if lowering my standings would improve my chances of getting the more profitable missions. I also explained that I was running into a situation where I was having to consistantly run Storyline missions where I gained some Amarr standings, but due to the nature of the mission, I am having to lose a sizeable amount of opposition faction.. and the reward for such a sacrifice was not in my opinion worth running the missions anymore. So, I figured maybe there might be a correlation.

Originally by: Johann Callasan
NOTHING you do will affect what storyline mission you get.


Bingo, that is the answer I was looking for, thank you.


Oh, did I miss it, or did your OP make it sound as if you didn't understand the way standings worked?

Either way you got your answer. Good day to you, then.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2009.02.18 02:12:00 - [15]
 

but I love mats for war Sad

that said, I almost never get it so Laughing

Pantload
Gallente
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Flatline.
Posted - 2009.02.18 17:56:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Pantload on 18/02/2009 17:59:40
At the rate this is going, I would simply suggest Pistols at 20 paces.

No seriously, Materials for War ( the crappiest of all L4 storylines ) is Trade mission. Various storyline agents ( because of their Division within their corp ) have either higher or lower chance of giving a Trade mission for their storyline. You can get "better" storyline missions by running regular missions in a nearby proximity to a storyline agent who works for a division that has little or no % chance of giving a Trade Mission.

The following link is quite useful and the statistics come from data mined from game: Linkage

Thanks to Pwett for that kickass page, btw.

Cheers,
PL

Pwett
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
Posted - 2009.02.18 18:23:00 - [17]
 

Mental note: recode that page to work on the new site.


 

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