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Kim Telkin
Caldari
Love for You
Posted - 2009.02.15 08:50:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Imhothar Xarodit
Edited by: Imhothar Xarodit on 15/02/2009 01:37:52

  • First, let it look like it is now when the mouse cursor is currently not over some module slot: pic 1

  • When the cursor hovers a module slot a new inner circle appears with all the market groups of items which are available for fitting. There also appears a "Unfit" button (we do not need the freaking right-click menu): pic 2

  • Now when you hover the mouse over one of the market groups a container-like window appears in the center with the items available for fitting in the current market group. Clicking an item automaticall fits it, replacing the existing module if needed: pic 3




Ohh ooh this! Really, the new UI is very shiny and pretty and has a high sexiness factor. But I do like the menus that come down out of the slots. It makes the center a lot more useful, AND keeps the ship there for the sexy factor.

Another suggestion to go along with it. Let us open and collapse the left window so we can use either method we like. And let us collapse the right window as well. The left and right windows should slide in/out of the stargate ring like wings. This will save screen space when you want it. And while all the numbers/details on the right wing are useful, I don't need that much info the entire time I am fitting.

Or what if you could collapse the right wing and it would overlay into the center of the ring. So you could see the ship and the info and use a lot of screen space. Or loose the ship or the info panel to save on screen space.

But please please please consider Xarodit's addition. It would make the stargate idea great.

Horzunaman
Posted - 2009.02.15 09:06:00 - [122]
 

considering that its still work in progress, it gonna be... wait for it... Awesome

Espoir
Trident Armed Forces
Republic Alliance
Posted - 2009.02.15 09:41:00 - [123]
 

Some good ideas in the new design, but as (maybe) already mentioned:
- way too big
- no cargo + dronebay size
- no close button
- not moveable
- please add a text "med high low slots rigs etc" in the outer bar (new player experience?!)

But hey its still in testing ... keep it up Very Happy

Dochas
Posted - 2009.02.15 10:28:00 - [124]
 

Edited by: Dochas on 15/02/2009 10:30:27
I realize its never fun to put a lot of work into something only for it to be a horrible failure but don't continue with something just because you put the work into it regardless of whether the work was well spent.

A giant circle in the middle of the screen with no function other then to show the ship, which has absolutely no use in actually fitting the ship is just plain wasting space. I am curious, did you bring in some people from Apple? Form over function has been a theme with many of their products, as seems to be the case here. Yes its shiny and new, and the current fitting screen is a bit bland. The current fitting screen works, the new one doesn't.

Fitting from the hanger, great, except just about everyone I know sorts into station containers. I don't want to look through 400 items for my Medium Armor Repair II, I want to go into my Lows container with the items organized as I have grown used to so i can quickly scroll to Medium Armor Repair II in the container of 60 items and then fit it.

All the fanboys who aregue that its just resistance to change are being silly. Change is great, things change all the time, its when the changes are an improvement that I'm happy and when the changes make things worse that I'm unhappy.

Even the people who claim to like it generally admit there are still problems with it, and honestly I see a lot more opposition then support.
When I'm transporting things I sometimes have to make decisions on stuff to leave behind, its easier when you can see cargo space used/left.

If your going to add eft-like information then flesh it out more, add dps, give us a little better functionality with defence options.

You have this giant new layout that you thought was worth new features but leave out some simple basics while creating an end product that is a downgrade with a shiny coat of paint. Ok saving fittings is a nice idea (which again wont help for those of us who organize in containers) but that doesn't save this horrible UI change.

Safran Foer
Posted - 2009.02.15 10:48:00 - [125]
 

I guess the most has been said yet, haven't read all 5 pages so far, but here i go:

all in all i am not very satisfied with the new fitting screen, for several reasons:
- not scalable
- not movable
- weps in the highslots now totally disappear under the ammo, so you can not clearly see what you actually fitted there
- statistics: the old fitting screen gave me a clear overview, the new one divides everything in different little menus, which is really unclear IMHO.

sorry to break down something you guys put a lot of effort in, but I guess I vote for excel in space

McDaddy Pimp
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.02.15 11:05:00 - [126]
 

Edited by: McDaddy Pimp on 15/02/2009 11:40:21
Edited by: McDaddy Pimp on 15/02/2009 11:39:23
I cant understand the hole in the middle is so that you can see how your new t3 ship will look like while u assemble them, but you don't have to look at your ship while you are fitting mods/ammo.

Suggestion
Make the modules, ammo, stats windows appear in the middle instead, with a show/hide function, so when you finished assembling your new t3 ship and spinning it for a while, you can pull out the mods/stats menu in the middle and start fitting stuff. CCP can keep their new stargate fitting window and players dont waste monitor space Very Happy

EDIT*

I forgot that t3 components also effects the statsEmbarassed and finding the right combination of looks and usability could be hard.so how bout making a big opacity slider bar so you can quickly change between looking at ship and looking at stats.

here is an idea of what I`m talking about Linkage... ughh dt is boring Razz

Raven Seven
Posted - 2009.02.15 11:23:00 - [127]
 

A few suggestions for the new fitting UI

  • Minimize and close buttons need to be added.

  • Transparency adjustment is needed, it can be difficult to read the stats area.

  • Needs to be movable and re-sizable like other game windows.

  • Would like to see more advanced fitting information available, such as DPS, and capacitor statistics (more like EFT etc..)







Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.02.15 11:56:00 - [128]
 

Again, I have to emphasize that the fitting window is way too wide. Even running at 1080p resolution I have problems with my chat windows and station services getting all over the fitting window. This is on a widescreen 16:9 monitor. That really isn't acceptable, even with the arrows allowing the sides to be collapsed.

It's a good general concept with what looks like some nice added bonus features but needs much more tweaking to get it usable at many resolutions.

The capacitor read out is also a bit unbalanced visually. If you're going to keep the cap circle in the middle of a box, information should probably be to both the left and right of it.

Amarr Holymight
Ultrapolite Socialites
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.02.15 12:16:00 - [129]
 

The fitting window needs to be slightly left aligned so it fits between the station panel and the main icons, by default.

ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2009.02.15 13:02:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Dr Resheph

1. Transparency looks nice, but isn't user friendly.

2. Remove module and Info button trails are annoying and redundant.

3. Can't have more than one left-side menu open at once; all menus collapsed by default.

4. CPU / Powergrid bars are blended into the UI with no obvious start/end points; too large and entirely worthless without readout.

5. Drop shadow and bevel emboss on the fitting ring? Really?

6. The hardpoints graphic is not intuitive, takes up too much space, and looks out of place. What do the grey circles represent? Hardpoints left? Hardpoints used?

7. Small autocannon and standard launcher icons in my fitting window, when you have none fitted. Newbs will love that one.

8. You made the module icons smaller and blurrier, and the green 'active' button as visually intrusive as possible.

9. Ammo now takes up the entire turret space, making it harder to see what guns you have fitted as you're cycling through multiple ships.

10. No drag, no minimize, no close, no resize.

11. No cargo capacity readout to show what you have and what you used.

12. Same thing for drones, add the missing drone bandwidth on top.

13. Can't see or make drone groupings in fitting window, the most obvious new feature you could have added.

14. The colored backgrounds on the resistance readouts are useless because you don't know where they start or end.

15. What is that circular capacitor graphic good for, exactly?

16. Your free floating and icons around the ring only blend into my station environments, and my eye has to keep straining to spot them while the strobe lights move around.

17. The short animation you get when opening the fitting window is lame and pointless.

18. UI behaviour changes depending on whether the side panels are open. Sometimes you can click-drag to rotate camera, other times the mouse gets stuck. Completely unintuitive.

19. Your fitting window blocks parts of my neocom and station panel on the lowest resolution.

20. It's completely out of place with the rest of the UI, and whether or not you intend to change the rest in time, the fact remains you have two different UI designs and behaviours for the duration instead of one logical theme and set of behaviors.

21. You're still missing vital information from this new fitting window, just as the old one. I still have to 'show info' on my ship to get the whole picture.

22. You added new information with hitpoint calculations, but you force the user to select from an obscure dropdown window instead of doing a simple check to see what sort of setup that person has.

23. The left-side panel boxes are mixing two types of information: stuff in station and stuff in your ship with no obvious distinction between the two.

24. The left-side panel boxes are tiny, and worthless for scrolling through a mountain of assets, some in containers and other ships. They don't even extend fully in the horizontal and waste space.

25. This design sucks bacause Stargate sucks.


Have a nice day.


pretty much spot on

Gekkoh
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.02.15 13:48:00 - [131]
 

Edited by: Gekkoh on 15/02/2009 13:51:13
Originally by: Imhothar Xarodit

Here is a proposal of how to make it more intuitive and less cluttered (pics inside):

  • First, let it look like it is now when the mouse cursor is currently not over some module slot: pic 1

  • When the cursor hovers a module slot a new inner circle appears with all the market groups of items which are available for fitting. There also appears a "Unfit" button (we do not need the freaking right-click menu): pic 2

  • Now when you hover the mouse over one of the market groups a container-like window appears in the center with the items available for fitting in the current market group. Clicking an item automaticall fits it, replacing the existing module if needed: pic 3

  • What is the purpose of all this: First, reduce the mouse movement distance by keeping the module slots close to the items. Second, save space by removing the lefthand item list and replace it with a dynamic structure that adapts to the current situation. And third, move the stats window to the left side instead of the right. Wasting the complete screen space jsut to see the ship while fitting it is not usefull.
    Today's UIs are dynamic (dynamic means not everything having a right-click menu)

  • Do not remove the ability to drag & drop an item from some hangar onto a slot.

  • Remember this is just a quick cut & paste mockup but it shows the basic idea behind the concept. Especially the container-like window in the center needs much more work to (1) look good and (2) show as many items as possible.

  • TL;DR: Normal View => hovering mouse over a module slot => replacement for item list (quick cut & paste mockup).




YES!!!!!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!!

MORE YES!!!!

Reading through this thread, looking at the screenshot, this idea is exactly what I was thinking. If you want a more modern UI experience, then implement this idea! To take it a bit farther, show modules that won't fit for whatever reason as red, and when you hover over them, the reason why is displayed with a mouse over box.

"Super Laser 5000 - Req. 50 cpu. Avail. 43" or "Long Missile Launching - Req. Cruise Missiles V. You have: III"

Also, if you could find some way to incorporate some more functionality from EFT, that would rock. Things like missile range, alpha strike damage, dps, whether or not the cap is stable need to be worked in there.

Probably not enough time before the ship date, but this is the way to do it.

Seetesh
Caldari
The Resident Haunting
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2009.02.15 14:14:00 - [132]
 

I personally feel that tne central ring should be removed and for the desingers to simply update the current system. However i prefer absolute readouts and an easy fitting tool, this new version is far to complicated and awkward to use.

rgreat
Gallente
OEG
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.02.15 14:14:00 - [133]
 

Edited by: rgreat on 15/02/2009 14:16:22
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Originally by: Dr Resheph

1. Transparency looks nice, but isn't user friendly.

2. Remove module and Info button trails are annoying and redundant.

3. Can't have more than one left-side menu open at once; all menus collapsed by default.

4. CPU / Powergrid bars are blended into the UI with no obvious start/end points; too large and entirely worthless without readout.

5. Drop shadow and bevel emboss on the fitting ring? Really?

6. The hardpoints graphic is not intuitive, takes up too much space, and looks out of place. What do the grey circles represent? Hardpoints left? Hardpoints used?

7. Small autocannon and standard launcher icons in my fitting window, when you have none fitted. Newbs will love that one.

8. You made the module icons smaller and blurrier, and the green 'active' button as visually intrusive as possible.

9. Ammo now takes up the entire turret space, making it harder to see what guns you have fitted as you're cycling through multiple ships.

10. No drag, no minimize, no close, no resize.

11. No cargo capacity readout to show what you have and what you used.

12. Same thing for drones, add the missing drone bandwidth on top.

13. Can't see or make drone groupings in fitting window, the most obvious new feature you could have added.

14. The colored backgrounds on the resistance readouts are useless because you don't know where they start or end.

15. What is that circular capacitor graphic good for, exactly?

16. Your free floating and icons around the ring only blend into my station environments, and my eye has to keep straining to spot them while the strobe lights move around.

17. The short animation you get when opening the fitting window is lame and pointless.

18. UI behaviour changes depending on whether the side panels are open. Sometimes you can click-drag to rotate camera, other times the mouse gets stuck. Completely unintuitive.

19. Your fitting window blocks parts of my neocom and station panel on the lowest resolution.

20. It's completely out of place with the rest of the UI, and whether or not you intend to change the rest in time, the fact remains you have two different UI designs and behaviours for the duration instead of one logical theme and set of behaviors.

21. You're still missing vital information from this new fitting window, just as the old one. I still have to 'show info' on my ship to get the whole picture.

22. You added new information with hitpoint calculations, but you force the user to select from an obscure dropdown window instead of doing a simple check to see what sort of setup that person has.

23. The left-side panel boxes are mixing two types of information: stuff in station and stuff in your ship with no obvious distinction between the two.

24. The left-side panel boxes are tiny, and worthless for scrolling through a mountain of assets, some in containers and other ships. They don't even extend fully in the horizontal and waste space.

25. This design sucks bacause Stargate sucks.


Have a nice day.


pretty much spot on


+1

Also:
1. we need % of usage of the PG/CPU, not just Used/Total.
2. Too small on my 2560x1600 screen.

adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
Posted - 2009.02.15 14:20:00 - [134]
 

it might LOOK nice....but the ONLY thing good about it is the 'save fit' part....

seriously...its terrible... and ive never complained about the UI before... i actually like the old one... improve that one instead of making a new 'fancy' useless one IMO.... or fix the new one....

Altaree
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.02.15 14:25:00 - [135]
 

Edited by: Altaree on 15/02/2009 14:27:09
I am going to jump on this bandwagon..
1) What a waste of space.
2) I keep my stuff organized in containers. Do I have to empty them into my hanger just to use this???
3) LOVE the ship saving! BEST FEATURE FROM THIS EFFORT!

I forgot to add that the real suck of this is that you have spent so much time making this screen that you are now very attached to it and not ready to go back to the drawing board to give us what we need instead of some "shiny".

Nofonno
Amarr
Posted - 2009.02.15 15:03:00 - [136]
 

Edited by: Nofonno on 15/02/2009 15:03:45
First I'd like to apologise for TL;DR...

It would be lovely if you could do two small widgets next to each one of the slot groups, that would filter the contents of the hangar on the left pane according to the:

  1. modules that use that particular slot, and

  2. modules that are able to fit within current fit (i.e. have enough CPU/PG/callibration to fit them).



Otherwise, it's quite spiffy Cool Good work.

EDIT: Edited for brain-fart punctuation.

Zaiyo Modi
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.02.15 15:29:00 - [137]
 

Edited by: Zaiyo Modi on 15/02/2009 15:29:48
Edited by: Zaiyo Modi on 15/02/2009 15:29:25
Having the low slot modules on the left side seem very unintuitive and I did find it abit annoying.

I'd move the low slot modules to the bottom.

Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
Posted - 2009.02.15 16:01:00 - [138]
 

Small criticisms only:

1) The coloured resistance bars on the right look a little "tacky"; perhaps some texturing on the coloured bar itself would make it look a little more slick? Example.

2) The item & attribute icons also look a little dull in comparison to many other graphics, but of course revising the icons would be a fairly large undertaking.

More importantly though, I'm sure I'm not alone in using containers to house my equipment and ammunition. I trust this new fitting screen can look inside these containers easily?

Chris Stormrider
Gallente
IDEON ANDRON
Posted - 2009.02.15 16:09:00 - [139]
 

Actually it's the best thing since sliced bread, but can I have a choice, in the options menu, to use the old one and when I decide I want to risk losing sp and undock a tech3 ship, then use the new fittings window to fit it?

Really now, if I want to use EFT I can always use alt+tab to switch to it...

Call me stupid or whatever, just let me use the old one, since no dev will bother respond to any input in this thread, I can't be bothered wasting my time doing your Quality Assurance.


Llaneza
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.02.15 16:29:00 - [140]
 

If EVE is getting 'picture in picture' capability, how about upgrading the 'zoom' feature to be a real render and not just zooming a bitmap and getting a zoomed view that's all pixelated ?

FireFoxx80
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.02.15 16:49:00 - [141]
 

My thoughts on this:

Screen is far too wide, there's lots of wasted space near the << and >> resizers that could be used to make the window narrower.

Screen background needs to be more opaque, on many stations the lights in the background mask the right-hand figures.

CPU/PG gradients really need to be different colours. They also need a 100% marker.

Resistance graphs need a 100% marker.

Capacitor readout seems pointless in its current location. I'd be happy to have just numbers just below CPU figures (similar to PG/Calibration).


FireFoxx80
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.02.15 16:52:00 - [142]
 

Oh, and it would be great if subsystems were assigned when you went into ship fitting screen, rather than when you first unpackage the ship.

At the moment you have to go between 25 information screens when unpacking a T3 ship, would make much more sense if T3 abilities were treated like rigs/modules, and the fitting window previewed their impact.

permion
Posted - 2009.02.15 17:25:00 - [143]
 

Can you please add drone statistics, well atleast drone movement range. Pretty please with extra nagginess on top.

The only way to do it now is to go out into space, find a target, then attack. Unless of course you can assign drones, but still clumsy.

Kweel Nakashyn
shadow and cloaking
Yggdrasill.
Posted - 2009.02.15 18:39:00 - [144]
 

* Can you export/import fittings to/from a .txt files ?
* Out of fitting screen, is it possible to select multiple items in your hangars by drag'n drop a box around them ?

Eraggan Sadarr
Comply Or Die
Posted - 2009.02.15 20:34:00 - [145]
 

Edited by: Eraggan Sadarr on 15/02/2009 20:36:40
Originally by: Jameroz
The transparency makes it quite hard to read the info. I'd rather have regular background so the user can select the level of transparency himself. Neutral


THIS!!
And since you can't accomodate all screen resolutions with at static size... Make it scalable.

LtCol Laurentius
Caldari
Digital Fury Corporation
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.02.16 00:11:00 - [146]
 

The current iteration of the fitting screen just isnt intuitive. I am not debating the "prettyness", but now a ship have left slots, top slots and top right slots? And the giant hole in the middle serves no purpose what so ever besides taking up space. The fitting screen is supposed to be about function first, looks second. So I guess my verdict is meh.

Leya Marcsson
Posted - 2009.02.16 01:29:00 - [147]
 

Edited by: Leya Marcsson on 16/02/2009 01:30:56
could you please think about a more simpler & functional approach? how about something like this: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0902/Eve_Fitting.pdf

even if you stick with your circle stuff: please do not add another way to brows the hangar/container - if you think the current way is bad (and there could be some reasons for that) redesign the current and integrate it into the fitting screen.

wert668
Posted - 2009.02.16 01:42:00 - [148]
 

The bad:
Doesn't show cargo space used/left.
Doesn't show drone bay used/left.
Crying or Very sad

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.02.16 04:55:00 - [149]
 

MORE STUFF:
Problem 1:
The "hardpoint" indicators are non-intuitive. To display full information we would need three different icons instead of just two:
Hardpoint available (empty turret hardpoint)
Hardpoint filled (self-explanatory)
Hardpoint not available (i.e., ship has only 4 turret slots, so the other 4 "circles" would be like this)

Solution:
Don't display eight circles. Instead display one unfilled circle for each turret hardpoint and for every turret you have fitted, fill up one. It makes sense for the hardpoint indicators to fill up, not to empty, as you fit things to them. Ditto for the missile hardpoints.

Problem 2: First time I saw the fitting screen I wondered why there was an autocannon icon on my Zealot. Either declare what those hardpoints are for (the word "Turrets" written in an arc above them maybe) or come up with a generic gunnery icon. Ditto missiles.

Problem 3: information on the right side is inadequate / ordered unusually.
WRT Capacitor/Shield:
If you're showing the peak shield recharge (which I hope you are, as average shield recharge [shield/sec] is meaningless), it's unlabeled. I hope you can identify things by hovering over them or right-clicking.
Ditto it would be nice to have the peak cap recharge displayed.
Solution: Display peak cap/shield recharge

WRT HP:
The use of the nanofiber icon for effective HP made me think that it was giving me the effective structure HP.
Solution:
Replace the icon for structure HP with the generic "ship" icon - i.e., the same ship that appears on the cloaking device icon and the fitting screen icon.


WRT Targeting:
Number of targets displayed as "10x" is non-intuitive. It also doesn't account for a player's skills. (My ship says I can lock 10 but I can only lock 5, wtf?)
Solution: Add "max targets" icon. Appears as the targeting icon with a "max" subscript.

WRT Navigation:
Mass and Agility - neither of these traits are particularly useful. Mass I guess is useful (and will be for wormholes) but agility isn't, and including it is going to provide nothing but confusion.
Solution: Do not display agility; display align time instead.


General comments:
The old fitting interface was very consistent. Modules were fitted clockwise on the screen and from left to right.
The new fitting screen is inconsistent. Everything is fitted clockwise (except subsystems); instead of going from high/med/low/rigs, we go high/mid/subsystems/rigs/low, or rigs/low/high/mid/subsystems, or whatever. Highslots are up high but midslots aren't in the middle and lowslots aren't low.

Leave the hangar and stuff on the left if you wish but you should really preserve the windows at the bottom right of the screen for cargohold and drone bay. Given that I assume it will still be possible to fit a ship entirely from the items hangar using the old interface, I would really rather not have to open up the new thing on the left just to access my cargo and drones, especally cause it adds a significant amount of mouse-clicking.

TL;DR:
The entire fitting screen feels like it's been designed around being able to see your ship in the center of the screen while fitting. The layout suffers greatly for it and it gives you no real benefit aside from aesthetics - and fitting a ship is a technical task, not an aesthetic one. This sort of interface would be perfect if we ever get to repaint or add labels to a ship but it's utterly wasted on a fitting interface.

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.02.16 05:08:00 - [150]
 

Originally by: Leya Marcsson
Edited by: Leya Marcsson on 16/02/2009 01:30:56
could you please think about a more simpler & functional approach? how about something like this: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0902/Eve_Fitting.pdf

even if you stick with your circle stuff: please do not add another way to brows the hangar/container - if you think the current way is bad (and there could be some reasons for that) redesign the current and integrate it into the fitting screen.

100 times this.
(assuming that the circle around the ship doesn't actually show up)
Plus being able to resize these windows / close / scroll them up / minimize them down / dock them to the screen like chat windows so that they're transparent / combine them with other windows would be the best.

Suddenly it's fully customizable, fits in with the entire rest of the EVE UI and still lets you see the ship while fitting it if (for some reason) you really want to.

P.S. if we can't already, let us dock stuff to the station services window so that I can dock my ships and items tab with the station window


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