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CCP Fallout

Posted - 2009.02.14 14:34:00 - [1]

Tech 3 ships are going to be complicated, but not unpretty. CCP Fendahl's new blog gives us the scoop on the new fitting screen that will be coming with Apocrypha... with image goodness.

Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2009.02.14 14:41:00 - [2]

I found it a bit hard to use tbh, but I guess I'll get into the routines after a while. Mainly because it extended over the station panel so I couldn't access items in my hangar - and the fact that you couldn't move the fittings screen.

But it's looking very spiffy, eyecandy for sure Very Happy

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2009.02.14 14:44:00 - [3]

Save fittings feature made me feel warm inside. Much improvement compared to the old. Thanks in advance.

Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
Posted - 2009.02.14 14:57:00 - [4]

can you move it now?

didn't try the last patch, yet

Gumpy Nighthawk
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.02.14 15:01:00 - [5]

With the older build there was also the window with effective hitpoints, not sure it's still there with the current build, but just assuming it's still there, but that effective hitpoint number is just an addition of your armor with any extra armor booster, but not taking any resists in account. So it kinda seems silly to call it effective, since it's not been adjusted for resists, so it's just the normal base number of hitpoints or i've missed something here :)

Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Posted - 2009.02.14 15:02:00 - [6]

Woot. Look at me ma, I'm on the first page!

Just wanted to say this looks great to me! I especially like the "corporation" fitting part - simply awesome idea!

Echoes of Space
Posted - 2009.02.14 15:09:00 - [7]

The transparency makes it quite hard to read the info. I'd rather have regular background so the user can select the level of transparency himself. Neutral

Mashie Saldana
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.02.14 15:11:00 - [8]

The picture in picture feature sounds great. The use of a single ring makes it a bit counter inituive with low/med/high slots, maybe put text descriptions next to it on the inside of the ring.

Also, the T3 "slots" are not in the same order as the modules are mounted on the ship.

Great Big Research
Posted - 2009.02.14 15:18:00 - [9]

first page

and i like the new screen tbh it`ll just take some time to get used to

Miner Tech
Posted - 2009.02.14 15:20:00 - [10]

The only good new feature is that we can load and save fittings now.

What use has an UI which uses 90% of the screen but at the same moment waste 60% of its space for pure nothingness (i mean the big empty hole in the middle of the ring).

It is much more difficult to read the different information about the ship in the new fitting screen. Because of the waste of space in the UI everything usefull is now small and cluttered together so that no information grouping happens.

And sorry, you have 4 tech3 ships and how many non-tech3 ships? Was it really necessary to kick out a fantastically working fitting screen for that?!

I NEVER EVER heard any complains about the fitting screen - except for loading/saving fittings.

This is absolutely horrible UI and if I would have a choice I wouldn't use that fitting screen even if you pay me 100 mil isk (except for loading/saving the fittings, that is really a cool thing).

My suggestions:

  • Stop the wastage of screen space in the middle of the ring and fill it with useful information. Why not filling it with info about shields/armor/hull/cap? This way you group at least some of the info logically.

  • Don't make the fitting screen transparant. It is very confusing and extremly difficult to read. Sure it looks ... 'cool' Embarassed but totally bad ui design. If you want transparency, then give us at least a slider so that we can control the transparancy ourselves between 0% and 100%.

  • Don't display subsystems (even if they are greyed out) for non-t3 ships. What use has this info? None. So drop it.

  • Arrange info which falls into the same category also visibly close together. Mainly I mean the info about the Powergrid, CPU and calibration points. They are spread around on the ui randomly without any connection with each other.

  • In general, make the fitting screen more compact. FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION!

With some work you can end up with a useful fitting screen again.

Aldiree Antima
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2009.02.14 15:28:00 - [11]

Nice! Something new, useful and shiny.

Hopefully you get something nice out the Picture-in-Picture idea. I'm skeptical in this respect.

Question: Will there be a overhaul for the asset management system? The methods of presentation data is suboptimal at best and sometimes really annoying. I spend most of my time trading/hauling in eve and use this over strained asset system extensively.

Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.02.14 15:37:00 - [12]

I don't like the form over function design concept to be honest.

The new fitting screen wastes a lot of space, i can't even move items from my hangar to fit on my ship without moving a lot of windows around. It takes my whole space and still displays less information than the old one.

Sorry, i can see it took a lot of work. But the old one was better.

Tammaria Snegallja
Posted - 2009.02.14 15:39:00 - [13]

I haven't used the fitting svreen in a station for ages, so this huge monster looks scary to me.

Right now, it sits where the Corporate Hangar Array with my stuff opens. Looks as if I must move it to the side of my screen, so that would move either the Local or the Overview to the center. Great, I just love to have a full-height window in the middle ("column" 2 or 4 of 5) of my screen...

Um, and dragging a module from the Fitting Screen to the Corp Chat is out of the question, too.

Miner Tech
Posted - 2009.02.14 15:51:00 - [14]

Questions about this fitting manager tool

1) Can a corp member fit ships inside corp hangar if there are the modules present in that hangar (eventually point to some other hanger where the modules are also), assumed that person has the access roles to access all that stuff in corp hangar?

2) Will there be alliance-wide fittings? Or only personal and corp?

Nathanael Ashcroft
Posted - 2009.02.14 15:59:00 - [15]

This new look is simply beautiful ! Shocked
Cheers to the design team !!

Vir Hellnamin
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.02.14 16:20:00 - [16]

Edited by: Vir Hellnamin on 16/02/2009 13:08:41
Edited by: Vir Hellnamin on 14/02/2009 17:13:05
Edited by: Vir Hellnamin on 14/02/2009 16:22:41

Load/Save setup is the good stuff. Too bad it starts to feel that that's it where the good stuff ends.

Is there any way to have a version that would not show the (pointless, unless you enjoy spinning your ship a lot) view of my ship in the docks? Could this be made as toggle able, since UI-space is valuable when fitting a ship (and not everyone has 1920x1200 24" TFTs)?

The Hangars in Item Panel sound like they only check hangar-floors, not inside cans, is this so?

Seems like that Item Panel can have only one slot (hangars/cargo/drones) open at one time, right? (How do you drag ammo+etc/drones from hangars to cargo, if you can have one panel-slot open only? Answer: tested this out and the panel-slot titlebars is the answer)

Could the corp.hangar access be toggleable from fitting UI side, since it might lag out client when accessing some 1000 different items from corp hangars?

Also, is there currently a way to see the gun-type/-name after ammo is loaded?

yes, I sound irked, but I prefer simple UI compared to any bling bling any time...

but since you're mentioned that Save-Load possiblity, I take it and have to live with the rest. Smile

Ashley Thomas
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.02.14 16:27:00 - [17]

used it yesterday and liked it alot, though i must admit took a little while to get used too

Captain Campion
Posted - 2009.02.14 16:27:00 - [18]

Is it missing the Class / Ship information ?

BlackStar Industrial
Posted - 2009.02.14 16:30:00 - [19]

Edited by: Rilwar on 14/02/2009 16:30:13
Resizable pl0x!

So far I love it, but we really need to be able to adjust its transparency ourselves, it's impossible to read.

My 2nd PC running 1024 cant fit the whole thing properly.


1st page.

Mahai Ano
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.02.14 16:31:00 - [20]

Edited by: Mahai Ano on 14/02/2009 16:34:22

-I store my items for fittings in one/more separate station containers. The new fitting window does not list the items there, making the save/load a waste of a feature
-fix the tranparency issue (yes, it is an issue)
-instead of greying out, don't display nonexistent slots! (modules on non-t3, rigs on noobship, the 2-7 highslot on a iteron I....)

Posted - 2009.02.14 16:35:00 - [21]

You've forgotten a famous quote on the beginning of the blog!!!

other than that, hope to see the changes coming!

Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
Posted - 2009.02.14 16:37:00 - [22]

can I have the old fitting screen back ? I don't care what the freaking t3 ship looks like, I care only about the stats of the finished ship ...

I always have station environment disabled (and it does all kinds of freaking things like vanishing ships) so the new fitting screen is less usable for me ..

only + is the fitting export

Shalmaneser ili
Gemeinschaft interstellarer Soeldner
Posted - 2009.02.14 16:40:00 - [23]

It looks great at first, but the handling is a bit cumbersome.

Of course the switch from something that one has been using for years to something new is not happening at once, but so far it feels a bit wrong to me. I agree with some of the people posting earlier that it gives too little info for the amount of space that it uses - but I also think that most of the impression comes from being so big (especially at non-widescreen resolutions) and non-movable, but that has already been addressed in the blog.

The good:

- Visually appealing.
- Much more shipinfo than the old fitting screen which reminds of EFT.
- Fitting Manager, awesome to have.
- Drag and drop from Personal Module Charges to Cargo works, even with shift key functionality.
- Personal Module Charges is quite the win, even though it means making a personal switch from not using containers to keep my hangar tidy anymore, and not using the hangar to fit a ship anymore. I'll gladly make that transition.

The bad:

- Doesn't show cargo space used/left.
- Doesn't show drone bay used/left.
- "Drones in Ship" doesn't allow to load/unload drones.
- Clicking on "remove" on a group of 4 MP II on a Geddon removed the crystals, but also visually the lasers showing an empty slot, even though they are still there. Closing and re-opening fixes this.
- PG and CPU numeric displays at the bottom left and right of the "Stargate" are decentralized and not easy enough to glance over when hovering the mouse over a module one might want to fit.
- The PG and CPU bars are purely decorative, I'd go as far as saying useless compared to the old fitting screen. I cannot tell where the maximum is, also they don't stand out enough visually - they blend in with the screen too much.
- Unintuitive arrangements of low/med/hi slots in a clockwise fashion - it is low/hi/med instead.


- Add a "100%" mark to the PG/CPU bars? Maybe even add 10% or 25% increments to have a chance at telling what value they are showing at all? Even better, have the current percentage shown at the end of the bar - you could even make it go red if it goes over 100%, showing a red (pulsating) 100% or >100%?
- Make the PG/CPU bars stand out more - a pulsating, soft slow glow? Or simply more solid in color, less gradient?
- Move the numeric PG and CPU displays from the bottom to the top, closer to the vertical center below the ship type and name, making it easier to check them at a glance.
- Add "MW" and "tf" to the numeric PG and CPU displays respectively.
- Have the "Used" portions of the numeric PG and CPU display turn GREEN when you hover over a module that would fit, and RED if it won't.
- Rearrange the slots shown on the "Stargate" in a clockwise fashion to either low/med/hi or hi/med/low to make it more intuitive.

Shalmaneser ili
Gemeinschaft interstellarer Soeldner
Posted - 2009.02.14 16:42:00 - [24]

Originally by: Mahai Ano
[...]I store my items for fittings in one/more separate station containers. The new fitting window does not list the items there, making the save/load a waste of a feature[...]

Same here, and I thought the same way as you do - but all I will be doing is keeping everything in the main hangar, fitting from "Personal Ship Modules", and put everything that is not supposed to be fitted or that cannot be fitted (minerals, corpses, etc.) into a container to find them more easily. Not a problem at all, I think - except for having a huge amount of items in your hangar.

Deliverers of Pain
Posted - 2009.02.14 16:47:00 - [25]

Edited by: Kaahles on 14/02/2009 16:49:16
Yeah where's the quote at the beginning? You should fix that!

Other than that I like the new UI. Displays all the information I need and doesn't look like an excel spread sheet anymore it actually looks like a game with fun. It's a bit tricky to get used to it but guess that's normal since I used the old one since '05 but I was really getting depressed when I saw it
My personal favourite: ship fittings save/load. Just tried it on SISI yester they it's just awesome.

there are still a few issues. The transparency looks cool I would like to keep it but on the other hand sometimes it get's really on my nerves so a little slider to scale it would be nice.
Moving it around and maybe resizing would also help allot.

Especially when you try to fit a ship in space on a POS/Carrier it can get really ugly with the transparency (overview)/not moving thing.
I also would like to see some basic filter options for the item browser. A few checkboxes would do the trick for me. Options should be to choose what kind of module (slot) and what hangar (corp/own/both) should be displayed.
Drone/Cargo bay capacity issue has been stated before but I'll put it on my list too

EDIT: some spelling and YARR first page o/

Shalmaneser ili
Gemeinschaft interstellarer Soeldner
Posted - 2009.02.14 16:48:00 - [26]

Originally by: Vir Hellnamin
[...]Also, is there currently a way to see the gun-type/-name after ammo is loaded?[...]

Hover your mouse over the weapon in question, it will display instantly. Works for Mega Pulse II on a Geddon at least on my Sisi client.

Mnemonic Enterprises
Posted - 2009.02.14 16:49:00 - [27]

+ the option to save fittings

-revamping the entire fitting system for 4 ships, most of which will not make it into the average players' hands for a long time

here, someone fixed the fitting window the way it should be

Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
Posted - 2009.02.14 16:50:00 - [28]


Why not put the rigs and subsystems in the left arc of the Viewmaster, so that low slots can remain, uh, low?

Right now it's going to be very confusing, especially to newer players.

"Make sure you put cargo expanders in your low slots before you go mining in that Bantam!"

"Er, which ones are the low slots? The ones on the right or the ones on the left?"

"The ones on the left."

"Then, why don't you call 'em leftslots?"


Chris Stormrider
Posted - 2009.02.14 16:52:00 - [29]

I don't like the fact that various slot types are presented equally on the same ring. The name "high" and "low" slots don't make sense.

Also, someone looking at it (a newbie), doesn't get the idea that the modules shown have been put on the presented ship.

I usually log in from an eeepc with 1024x600 resolution (though I doubt most people care if that's a problem and I'm not sure if I'll be able to play using premium light, no-one knows for sure, right now).

I keep all my modules in a can to reduce the assets window lag. If I can use the "personal ship modules" to access my modules inside the can, then it's also ok. Otherwise I'd have to use a "station for modules" instead of a "can for modules". Obviously I won't be using that part of the screen.

I should be able to open the fittings window by dragging&dropping a module on the ship, like the way you can change active ship by drag&drop the ship to be made active (on the "empty space", where available :P).

Avoid green/red indication of active/inactive, for color-blind people (not me), or compliment it with a green disk/red x respectively.

Allow minimize.

Where is the help/evelopedia button?

Have a newb-mode to capture common fitting mistakes like armor+shield rep, and various non-newb friendly (but with their purposes) fits, like fitting "wrong" type of turrets and missing the bonus, small or too big shield booster, etc. Of course it should go away really easy, unlike clippy P

Export so you can copy/paste it or out-of-game, link so others can see your fitting (a bit far-fetched right now, too late to makee it etc. but you really scrambling to get this out no matter what, aren't you?)

Otherwise very nice (just kidding :P)

Saju Somtaaw
Kagan-Kincaid Enterprises
Posted - 2009.02.14 16:54:00 - [30]

First Page on a dev blog!

Looks good from the screen shot, getting a singularity client set up now to see it in action.

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