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blankseplocked Isn't one respec enough?
 
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Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2009.02.12 18:05:00 - [1]
 

I've had mixed feelings about the current attribute system they want to put in place and it has me wondering whether being able to respec more then once just seems like a really bad idea?

I chose my characters for both accounts based on what I liked, unlike a lot of people I did have a rough understanding of what attributes were important to me. That being said I did make some mistakes that I wouldn't mind changing if I felt like it. However, that being said I built my character more "balanced" even though she's combat specific.

With the current system of respecs every couple months it seems like I would just be nerfing myself if I don't spec higher will/perc for 6 months.

It's not even about min/max anymore, its just stupid for me to remain balanced across my attributes if I can just change them up when I want to focus on a different career route...

I am ok with character attribute respecs. But more than once is just too much...

Napro
Caldari
Simplistic Syndicate
Cha0s Theory
Posted - 2009.02.12 18:07:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Napro on 12/02/2009 18:07:01
then dont use it

RisenPhoenix
Shadowyn Corp.
Posted - 2009.02.12 18:08:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: RisenPhoenix on 12/02/2009 18:08:38
agree with OP but there are already multiple threads arguing this point

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2009.02.12 18:09:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Napro
Edited by: Napro on 12/02/2009 18:07:01
then dont use it


I'de be stupid NOT to use it.

RisenPhoenix
Shadowyn Corp.
Posted - 2009.02.12 18:11:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Napro
Edited by: Napro on 12/02/2009 18:07:01
then dont use it


What a real arguement why don't we just give everyone 500mil isk and 10mil free sp every patch but if you don't like it don't use it.

The problem with this every 6 months thing is everyone will have to use it to min-max or they just fall behind. Might as well do away with defferent races and bloodlines and attributes and just let everyone train at max speed.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2009.02.12 18:17:00 - [6]
 

Every point you switch around should cost you some 50mil ISK. That way you'll have to calculate the benefits with the costs and EVE will have another ISK sink.

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2009.02.12 18:19:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
Every point you switch around should cost you some 50mil ISK. That way you'll have to calculate the benefits with the costs and EVE will have another ISK sink.


I still dont agree with this, becase fact is though I don't have that kind of money yet. I am well on my way to being able to afford something like this because the benefit is well worth the cost. This would just give rich players a huge advantage.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.02.12 18:20:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
Every point you switch around should cost you some 50mil ISK. That way you'll have to calculate the benefits with the costs and EVE will have another ISK sink.
Benefits — great. Costs — insignificant. ISK sink — good.

1/3.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2009.02.12 18:21:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Sader Rykane
I still dont agree with this, becase fact is though I don't have that kind of money yet. I am well on my way to being able to afford something like this because the benefit is well worth the cost. This would just give rich players a huge advantage.

They already have that advantage with implants.

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2009.02.12 18:23:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: Sader Rykane
I still dont agree with this, becase fact is though I don't have that kind of money yet. I am well on my way to being able to afford something like this because the benefit is well worth the cost. This would just give rich players a huge advantage.

They already have that advantage with implants.


A "rich" player currently has +1 attributes on me, considering i've been flying with +4's for a long time.

Thats really not that much of an advantage.

RisenPhoenix
Shadowyn Corp.
Posted - 2009.02.12 18:24:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: Sader Rykane
I still dont agree with this, becase fact is though I don't have that kind of money yet. I am well on my way to being able to afford something like this because the benefit is well worth the cost. This would just give rich players a huge advantage.

They already have that advantage with implants.


implants only go so far this would take it all the way even the 50mil isk per point is chump change

Suneai
Gallente
Space Tide Syndicate
Posted - 2009.02.12 18:27:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Suneai on 12/02/2009 18:28:04
Originally by: Abrazzar
Every point you switch around should cost you some 50mil ISK. That way you'll have to calculate the benefits with the costs and EVE will have another ISK sink.
I'd say a multiplier would have to be thrown in to increase it by how many times the change is made, that way eventually it would take vast amounts of ISK to achieve it.
Perhaps a higher base value as well (250mil?)

Possibly some other handicap could be thrown in as well if the skill change involved losing all int for perc or the same with any other attribute... not sure what kind of handicap could be done though.

RisenPhoenix
Shadowyn Corp.
Posted - 2009.02.12 18:29:00 - [13]
 

A ONE TIME respec is all that is needed

That will let people fix character creation mistakes and anything else

Gunnanmon
Gallente
PURPLE.
Posted - 2009.02.12 18:33:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Sader Rykane
But more than once is just too much...


In your opinion. Which obviously isn't the same as CCCP's. I opose your view, for the record. My opinion is also irrelevant.

Heroldyn
Posted - 2009.02.12 18:48:00 - [15]
 

0 respec is enough.

Feilamya
Pain Elemental
Posted - 2009.02.12 19:06:00 - [16]
 

So we get respecs. What's next on the list? Instances? Shards? Nightelves Aliens?

Etria Issen
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2009.02.12 19:07:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Feilamya
So we get respecs. What's next on the list? Instances? Shards? Nightelves Aliens?


Forgot space goats.

Dari Anoh
Amarr
Anoh Shavar
Posted - 2009.02.12 19:21:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: RisenPhoenix
A ONE TIME respec is all that is needed

That will let people fix character creation mistakes and anything else


I disagree. An EVE character isn't like a World of Warcraft character. You don't roll a new class because you'd like to change your playing style, instead your keep developing your existing one(s). If over time you decide to try something different and get into another aspect of EVE, I say you have just as much right to 'correct a character mistake' as a new player does.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2009.02.12 19:25:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Feilamya
So we get respecs. What's next on the list? Instances? Shards? Nightelves Aliens?

Slippery slope is a lolgical fallassity (sp?), yes?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.02.12 19:37:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: Feilamya
So we get respecs. What's next on the list? Instances? Shards? Nightelves Aliens?

Slippery slope is a lolgical fallassity (sp?), yes?
Fallacy, and yes it is… Doesn't make it less of a cause for worry, though.

Farrellus Cameron
Sturmgrenadier Inc
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.02.12 19:44:00 - [21]
 

I never really understood this obsession with ultra-optimal skill training. But that's basically what is making some people freak out about skill respeccing. There's this mentality that if you aren't training skills at the maximum speed possible you are somehow at a disadvantage. That's simply not true.

Personally, there are lots of people with more skillpoints then me. But for me, the specific skills for many types of ships are maxxed out. So it's irrelevant if the person I am fighting has more skill points then me in total, we will still be equal in terms of SP.

There are some advanced learning skills I never got to 4, even though I've been playing for 3 years. I didn't max out the learning skills when I first started playing because I preferred to actually play the game then worry about whether Engineering V finishes a day early.

I also wouldn't want to plan out skill training 6 months in advance and limit myself only to skills with two specific attributes. I bounce around on my training a lot. Maybe it would be viable for 100m SP character who is training all gunnery skills to level 5. But I cannot see it working well for anyone else who jumps around for spaceship command to support skills and back, which generally cover the four major attributes.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.02.12 19:55:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
Every point you switch around should cost you some 50mil ISK. That way you'll have to calculate the benefits with the costs and EVE will have another ISK sink.


How bout if it cost 5M SP?

Napro
Caldari
Simplistic Syndicate
Cha0s Theory
Posted - 2009.02.13 18:00:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Abrazzar
Every point you switch around should cost you some 50mil ISK. That way you'll have to calculate the benefits with the costs and EVE will have another ISK sink.


How bout if it cost 5M SP?


Better Smile

Alora Venoda
GalTech
Whiskey Creek Alliance
Posted - 2009.02.13 18:52:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Farrellus Cameron
I never really understood this obsession with ultra-optimal skill training. But that's basically what is making some people freak out about skill respeccing. There's this mentality that if you aren't training skills at the maximum speed possible you are somehow at a disadvantage. That's simply not true.

Personally, there are lots of people with more skillpoints then me. But for me, the specific skills for many types of ships are maxxed out. So it's irrelevant if the person I am fighting has more skill points then me in total, we will still be equal in terms of SP.

There are some advanced learning skills I never got to 4, even though I've been playing for 3 years. I didn't max out the learning skills when I first started playing because I preferred to actually play the game then worry about whether Engineering V finishes a day early.

I also wouldn't want to plan out skill training 6 months in advance and limit myself only to skills with two specific attributes. I bounce around on my training a lot. Maybe it would be viable for 100m SP character who is training all gunnery skills to level 5. But I cannot see it working well for anyone else who jumps around for spaceship command to support skills and back, which generally cover the four major attributes.


i wholly agree with this... but when i went on the test server and actually tried out the attribute respec screen, the reality of it sinks in. deliberately choosing to hinder your skill training in certain areas is easier said than done. so i can understand what the OP is talking about.

so before i respec, i still want to put together a skill plan for the next 6 months or more, and make sure i pick the best attributes.

the basic principle is that with more choices to choose from, the natural tendency is to desire to make the "best" choice even if the end results are mostly similar, regardless of what choice is actually made.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2009.02.13 19:14:00 - [25]
 

I agree with the OP's concerns; however, CCP's choice to go with this mechanic seems to be more commercial in nature than driven by player desires. The 6 month cycle is chosen to try and influence the average account longevity. As such I would be surprised if this feature is canceled or changed.

Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2009.02.13 19:20:00 - [26]
 

If we must have a respec system then the one-time-only plan is the wrong way to do it. If we were allotted one respec only then specialists would either not use it or they'd tweak theirs just a bit. Generalists like me and people who don't really know what they want to do would balance their stats, with less emphasis on charisma. What would end up happening is that we see three or four total variations on skill plans over the totality of Eve players. Homogeneity.

But if you have multiple respecs, or a pay-for-reallocation system, then you might see people more willing to branch off into new fields. Burned out industrialists whose stats were previously too low to make training combat skills more than just a burden might respec with a perception/willpower-heavy layout and get into PvP. Burned out PvPers might do the opposite and change their skills to get into manufacturing. If neither party is satisfied with the choice then they switch back six months later.

I think that skill respeccing, despite its potential to speed up the process of maxing all relevant skills for your preferred profession (perhaps by several years although I'll wait for someone who can do math to comment on that), may lead to people experimenting more with what the game has to offer.

Element 22
Gallente
Posted - 2009.02.13 19:27:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Dirk Magnum
If we must have a respec system then the one-time-only plan is the wrong way to do it. If we were allotted one respec only then specialists would either not use it or they'd tweak theirs just a bit. Generalists like me and people who don't really know what they want to do would balance their stats, with less emphasis on charisma. What would end up happening is that we see three or four total variations on skill plans over the totality of Eve players. Homogeneity.

But if you have multiple respecs, or a pay-for-reallocation system, then you might see people more willing to branch off into new fields. Burned out industrialists whose stats were previously too low to make training combat skills more than just a burden might respec with a perception/willpower-heavy layout and get into PvP. Burned out PvPers might do the opposite and change their skills to get into manufacturing. If neither party is satisfied with the choice then they switch back six months later.

I think that skill respeccing, despite its potential to speed up the process of maxing all relevant skills for your preferred profession (perhaps by several years although I'll wait for someone who can do math to comment on that), may lead to people experimenting more with what the game has to offer.


Less rational, balanced and insightful comments Dirk! More Trolling! YARRRR!!

You do have a point, but as it stands we will end up with a fleets of Achuras with the only difference that they have 5 charisma and look different ugh

I think if we are going to do this then we need to have some kind of way to limit meta-gaming abuse. So perhaps we could have the 6 month hard time limit with exponential squared penalties. I like the SP idea, with the SP penalty being determined by current SP and such.

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2009.02.13 19:49:00 - [28]
 

It should be once every 23 hours to accommodate the casual gamers.

Lucas Tigh
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.02.13 20:12:00 - [29]
 

Quote:
Isn't one respec enough?

Isn't one thread enough?

Shai 'Hulud
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2009.02.13 20:25:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Shai ''Hulud on 13/02/2009 20:31:02
Everyone knows pod-pilots are bipolar. Turn your back and Einstein becomes Mike Tyson Shocked


 

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