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wert668
Posted - 2009.02.12 12:48:00 - [1]
 

Logistics operation in EVE grow a lot from the old times of freighters. Why don't we use the same system as use trains? One freighter is pretty small for present time. It is easy, you buy one to ten freighters than make train from them and go. It will look like Iteron 5 Very Happy but bigger.

SpawnSupreme
Posted - 2009.02.12 12:54:00 - [2]
 

that is a fun idea!

i say make freighter cargo links so they are not usable without the engine part.

maybe add a skill so you can add up to 5 cargo links to the shipand each cargo link sould be equivalent to the jump freighter cargo

and make an corp hanger version so if you want your freighter to have a corp hanger or ship maintenance bay to haul those fitted and rigged ships with your freighter just use the links

wert668
Posted - 2009.02.12 13:06:00 - [3]
 

I know want new graphic from ccp is little to much. What about freighter extender. It will have volume 100K m3 and will have capacity 900K m3 cost cca 500M ISK. Nice solution without using fancy graphic. It solve the problem with moving capital ships to hi-sec. It is simply to great Very Happy

Assoluto Destino
Posted - 2009.02.12 17:14:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: wert668
I know want new graphic from ccp is little to much. What about freighter extender. It will have volume 100K m3 and will have capacity 900K m3 cost cca 500M ISK. Nice solution without using fancy graphic. It solve the problem with moving capital ships to hi-sec. It is simply to great Very Happy


I do logistics for a living and think this is a wonderful idea. I like to look at it as the following:

Industrial Ship = Cargo Van
Transport Ship = Box Truck (US 20-24 ft)
Freighter = Tractor Trailer
?? = Freight Train

You do have trains that carry the full trailer without any disconnect from the chassis so the idea above where you work more than one freighter together would be an excellent idea. Or even having a seperate ship that is just an engine and then cars following behind. This would make it a great expense to possess as it is in the real world.

MacMasters
Posted - 2009.02.12 19:17:00 - [5]
 

similar idea in this other thread, and i'm a sucker for pretty pictures

Trade Silvinte
Posted - 2009.02.12 22:20:00 - [6]
 

CCP made it so that no ship can move capitals through empire. This is the reason why the Charon, largest of the freighters, can only carry ~950k m3 with max skills. So they will not introduce a ship that can hold more then 999k m3.

RisenPhoenix
Shadowyn Corp.
Posted - 2009.02.12 22:24:00 - [7]
 

Whoa crazy idea here but if you have that much to move why don't you get some friends to help? wacko I know why would you play with other people in an mmo but I think it might work

Matari Langour
Posted - 2009.02.14 03:11:00 - [8]
 

The short: It's not needed

The long:
Okay I am a freighter pilot and would LOVE this kind of idea, but at the same time I have to say that it is not 'practical' nor is it 'realistic'. I say this because we have to consider some general ideas as far as physical space and real life conditions.
First, some basic numbers.
The most commonly used size standard freight container in the world is 40 feet x 8 feet by 8.5 feet, which after some conversion is 100.75 m3. A fully loaded container will weigh roughly 29.5 tons (each ton weighing 2240 pounds/1016kg)

wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Containerization

A typical freight truck will have 1 of these size containers.
A moving van, half that.
Your next door neighbors truck.... lol

But what about a train? To start, trains have less to do with dimensional size and more to do with dead weight (weight that the earth pulls as opposed to weight being acted on by another force). But all things being equal, a 600 horsepower single engine train will be able to pull roughly 6000-10000 tons before needing 'helper' engines. A typical freight car will weigh between 20 and 130 tons. We'll just use averages and say 8000 tons capacity, each car averages 80 tons (2 fully loaded, max weight, freight containers, double stacked and locked, plus the car itself). That being said we can have 100 cars, or 200 freight containers.

So what does it all mean? A single engine train will haul roughly 200 of the aforementioned containers of roughly 100.75 m3. Meaning 20150 m3.

A freighter (caldari charon) can haul with max skills 981250 m3 or the equivalent of 48.7 of the trains in the example.

Now please understand that the example is only a single engine. What about multi engine setups? Now we are in the realm of massive amounts of weight, but to give an idea lets take another example.

There is a coal train that has a LOT of engines..... a lot. Those engines pull roughly 500-600 cars. We'll for our example say 550. But the cars themselves weigh in at 130 tons. So if we do some math and work backwards (reduce weight per car to 80 tons, giving us 50 tons per car to add more cars) we add another 344 cars, putting us at 894 cars, or 1792 freight containers or 180544 m3 of space.

The same freighter (caldari charon) still has the equivalent space of 5.4 of these trains.

So folks, we're already flying a train. More than a train, in fact. If you've got THAT MUCH stuff, contract it out, get an alt, get some friends (as someone else mentioned), or just give it too me!Very Happy

Max Thorus
Posted - 2009.02.14 04:07:00 - [9]
 

I like this idea!!! To fix the "no transport of caps to HighSec"-Problem, make each section its own cargohold with ~750,000m³.
So if you would have 3 sections, you would have 3x750k not a big 2,250k cargo.

@Matari
but our freighters are in space not on the ground affected by gravity. ;)
Also I would not compare a Charon with a train, more with a sea freigher that can carry about 6500 40feet containers.

Matari Langour
Posted - 2009.02.14 04:29:00 - [10]
 

I can see your viewpoint of 'like a boat' but again the issue remains, 6500 containers means roughly 655000 m3 (so a minmatar like me). But at the same time, anything larger than that is not really needed. I mean it'd be a great idea and all, but I doubt we'd ever get it. And again, I still like the idea, a lot. And as far as the limiting cargo space per section, that would help immensely.

Goonda
Minmatar
DOMINATIO
Posted - 2009.02.14 08:33:00 - [11]
 

A note from a naval architect (boat designer):

Standard of measurment for containers is the TEU (20 ft equilivant unit, about 39 m3 each).
The largest existing container ships (the Emma Mærsk class) can carry about 15,000 TEUs (585k m3), but is limited by the minimum allowable freeboard rules to about 11,000 TEUs (429k m3) because of weight. Also, consider that a LOT of space in container ships is used for ballast tanks, so that is all potential extra storage space. On top of that, I know of plans out there right now for even larger ships, in excess of 22,000 TEUs (858k m3).

The nice thing about space travel is that you don't have to worry about your ship sinking, nor proper ballasting and trim. You only have to worry about being able to move the stuff and maybe some weight ballance.

So, yeah, bigger/modular freighters would be great, and may happen one day (especially with the recent introduction of the modular T3 concept). But it is WAY down on my list of priorities of things that need to be done in this game.

Sir Substance
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2009.02.14 10:54:00 - [12]
 

jeepers, you can tell im from australia, the first thing that crossed my mind was three fenrirs all linked together with metal hinges.

cucac
Posted - 2009.02.14 11:18:00 - [13]
 

I am thinking no. Every profession has it cost in skills but mainly in cost of time to earn xy ISK. If you want to haul that much, you have to simply make a few turns. Same as miner can't fit aditional 20 mining lasers to mine faster or combat pilots can't kill faster, so haulers shouldn't be allowed to haul faster.

And to the capital to the empire problem, lol thats not a problem, that is how it is intended to be - simply no caps in empire. If they want some there, they would simply allow cynos, not make some funny planetary transporters.

SpawnSupreme
Posted - 2009.02.14 12:25:00 - [14]
 

i think the linked cargo containers should hold no more than 350km3 i think if you add a ship maintenance bay it should hold 500km3= to 1 bs

and i think they should be ship spacific so it looks like the freighter pulling it and just helt together by a new tractor beam technology so there is no physical connection.

be neat to see what looks like a tractor beem tranfering back and forth between any 2 links and or ship and link.

wert668
Posted - 2009.02.19 04:28:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Trade Silvinte
CCP made it so that no ship can move capitals through empire. This is the reason why the Charon, largest of the freighters, can only carry ~950k m3 with max skills. So they will not introduce a ship that can hold more then 999k m3.

Where mine post
Originally by: wert668
I know want new graphic from ccp is little to much. What about freighter extender. It will have volume 100K m3 and will have capacity 900K m3 cost cca 500M ISK. Nice solution without using fancy graphic. It solve the problem with moving capital ships to hi-sec. It is simply to great Very Happy

Collide with this?
Anyway I think of freighters train (first post) as something like GSC in Iteron V, you will never get over 1Mm3 per single cargo.

wert668
Posted - 2009.02.19 04:43:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: cucac
I am thinking no. Every profession has it cost in skills but mainly in cost of time to earn xy ISK. If you want to haul that much, you have to simply make a few turns. Same as miner can't fit aditional 20 mining lasers to mine faster or combat pilots can't kill faster, so haulers shouldn't be allowed to haul faster.
You think haulers earn crazy amount of ISK per hour?
"You have to simply make a few turns." Yes that true but I'm full industrial char I'm making BS on all manufacturing slots. And it is one freighter of minerals per line for day. If you multiplies this is pretty freaking number. Mostly I hauling ore and this will help me buy ore from small flies. Make one round thru entire region to buy this small amounts of ore to slowly stuck them in cargo. You know, freighters are freaking slow. And bigger is better. Very Happy


 

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