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H Zebra
Zebra Corp
Posted - 2009.02.16 16:08:00 - [241]
 

this post is now at the end of its 8th page, we have had one copy and paste reply from ccp, and you have chosen to ignor almost everything that people have constructivly added to improve teh fitting screen.
so why do people bother giving you idea's and comments that you clearly just ignore? why ask for imput if you just say f**k it we will do what we want anyway?

Daishi Kurita
Illicit Technologies
Eternal Rapture
Posted - 2009.02.16 17:14:00 - [242]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Daishi Kurita
Even if you improve the fitting screen. Please! Just add the option for using the current fitting screen.


Why?

I mean lets say they get the new fitting screen better than the current old version in all aspects, why keep the old?


Because even if YOU think it's better, and CCP thinks it's better doesn't mean its more useful. Right now the fittings screen is FINE. I can drag it, it doesn't get in the way of anything, it has simple usability.

As the old saying goes, if it ain't broke don't fix it. CCP have never heard this saying...

Kiran
Minmatar
Knights of Azrael
Anti-Social Outcast
Posted - 2009.02.16 18:06:00 - [243]
 

Originally by: Hondri
I was marking up some issues for a friend to see what I was moaning about when I thought I might as well post it here. Its more of an abstract thing that I do when working on interfaces... oh... I work on interfaces.

Lets go thru the problems/fixes I marked up.
?1 - Why the wasted space, it serves no purpose for the side panels to be that far away.
?2 - The hardpoint displays should be listed under offensive options on the right hand side, you could add that and make it show weapon damage multipliers/missile flight speeds etc, dynamic resize vertically if needed
?3 - The capacitor field shouldnt be really optional, it should join CPU/Powergrid at the bottom of the window, under the modules with a showing for density etc, recharge rate should be labled as such
?4 - I dont actually understand why there is a left hand panel, this stuff should rejoin the bottom of the left side as buttons stuck to the bottom corner. They work perfectly atm, if you want to be fancy add a progress background to the buttons to show % full, but the current numbers on the buttons too!
?5 - The radial bars, I dont even understand what the hell they do - there doesnt seem to be a rational natural mapping - Scrap them and stick to displaying fitting constraints as horizontal bars.
?6 - This whole row is redundant, if people cant work out the resistances listed in the table below from the colours and rollover tooltips, they shouldnt be playing eve - remove redundant things.
?7 - Fitting constraints should always give immediate and visible feedback to the user, numbers and radial bars DO NOT. Nice, straight linear bars... so easy to understand. Theres a reason when you download something in your browser they dont have a frigging circular progress pie chart or something silly.

And most importantly :

The middle window - I dont understand it.
The only use there is is to examine how your newly fitted T3 components look like, however on every other ship type it is excess that really isnt needed. It provides a redundant function and without an actual benefit, should be removed.

In summary, it isnt functional - it doesnt provide anything besides a "my t3 ship looks cool with this mod" feedback. Make it optional[non default] or remove it. Screw circular designs.


Number 6. The icons are there probably because some people are colour blind maybe ?

Random Womble
Minmatar
Emo Rangers
Electric Monkey Overlords
Posted - 2009.02.16 18:09:00 - [244]
 

Originally by: Kiran
Originally by: Hondri
I was marking up some issues for a friend to see what I was moaning about when I thought I might as well post it here. Its more of an abstract thing that I do when working on interfaces... oh... I work on interfaces.

Lets go thru the problems/fixes I marked up.
?1 - Why the wasted space, it serves no purpose for the side panels to be that far away.
?2 - The hardpoint displays should be listed under offensive options on the right hand side, you could add that and make it show weapon damage multipliers/missile flight speeds etc, dynamic resize vertically if needed
?3 - The capacitor field shouldnt be really optional, it should join CPU/Powergrid at the bottom of the window, under the modules with a showing for density etc, recharge rate should be labled as such
?4 - I dont actually understand why there is a left hand panel, this stuff should rejoin the bottom of the left side as buttons stuck to the bottom corner. They work perfectly atm, if you want to be fancy add a progress background to the buttons to show % full, but the current numbers on the buttons too!
?5 - The radial bars, I dont even understand what the hell they do - there doesnt seem to be a rational natural mapping - Scrap them and stick to displaying fitting constraints as horizontal bars.
?6 - This whole row is redundant, if people cant work out the resistances listed in the table below from the colours and rollover tooltips, they shouldnt be playing eve - remove redundant things.
?7 - Fitting constraints should always give immediate and visible feedback to the user, numbers and radial bars DO NOT. Nice, straight linear bars... so easy to understand. Theres a reason when you download something in your browser they dont have a frigging circular progress pie chart or something silly.

And most importantly :

The middle window - I dont understand it.
The only use there is is to examine how your newly fitted T3 components look like, however on every other ship type it is excess that really isnt needed. It provides a redundant function and without an actual benefit, should be removed.

In summary, it isnt functional - it doesnt provide anything besides a "my t3 ship looks cool with this mod" feedback. Make it optional[non default] or remove it. Screw circular designs.


Number 6. The icons are there probably because some people are colour blind maybe ?


Was going to point that out glad someone else realises that not everyone has perfect eyes

K'orbin Hayato
Burning Technologies
Dead Terrorists
Posted - 2009.02.16 19:32:00 - [245]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: K'orbin Hayato
I see they've added the ability to save and load your fittings. That is awesome, and I've taken the liberty to add those buttons to my own fitting screen:
Linkage


I think once they are done, your "Excel-In-Space-I-Hate-Change" fitting screen will be lol.


It has nothing to do with hating change. Rather, it has everything to do with wanting that change to be for the better.
The current fitting screen on sisi is a huge step backward in terms of useability. Take the module drop-down on the left side, for instance. The interface offers no truly useful sorting or filtering options, and picking mods out of your hanger is still the fastest way to fit a ship (barring the new 'load fitting' option, but this is not something that's tied to the ui design).
Another problem is the ship stats readout. Each segment is collapseable despite the fact that the entire side bar collapses. There are also no labels for the various stat readouts, just a tooltip on mouse over. There is no reason to make people move their mouse to a specific spot on the screen to see information that should be readily available.

Syrinthal
Posted - 2009.02.16 20:43:00 - [246]
 

Edited by: Syrinthal on 16/02/2009 20:44:00
Originally by: Kiran


Number 6. The icons are there probably because some people are colour blind maybe ?


Lets talk about colourblind-ness in respect to this design.

ArrowThe fields all have rollover tooltips explaining the damage type.
ArrowColour blind people can differentiate the different shades.
ArrowThere is no accompanying green damage/protection type, which in fairness would make this angle more valid, putting it into the most common category of colour blindness, without it about 98.5% of people should have no problem at all with it.
ArrowTo tell colour blind people that they cant see certain things or that its the reason you performed a certain action is very patronizing.

EVE caters very little for colour blind people, as many of my colour blind friends have said, however they don't really have a problem with it. Think of ammo colours, weapon fire colours, module/overload activation, map colours etc.

To base a functional design around handicaps will lead to what will most likely be an inefficient design, however making it compatible with alternatives is never an issue, as something like tooltips allows.

Ninja edit : I stuggle with red/green and sometimes light shades of blue.

H Zebra
Zebra Corp
Posted - 2009.02.17 09:43:00 - [247]
 

Still nothing extra from ccp. disapointed tbh

Katarlia Simov
Minmatar
Cowboys From Hell
Posted - 2009.02.17 10:25:00 - [248]
 

Not to say the new fitting screen isn't pretty, because it really REALLY is, but I miss the easy funtionality of the current one. Huge amounts of empty space shows off shiney graphics, but to me it feels like having the mona lisa as a key fob.

Pretty, sure. Useful , less so.

Aya Sin
Posted - 2009.02.17 12:23:00 - [249]
 

Originally by: Hondri
?2 - The hardpoint displays should be listed under offensive options on the right hand side

No, the hardpoints should be displayed where you actually fit the stuff requiring hardpoints. Just like PG and CPU. I would like to see a number in addition to the dots though.

Originally by: Hondri
?3 - The capacitor field shouldnt be really optional, it should join CPU/Powergrid at the bottom of the window, under the modules with a showing for density etc

The capacitor has zero impact on what you 'can' fit. It's fine where it is, but they should get rid of that fancy graphic as it doesn't go well with the UI anymore. I'd also like to see some additional stats, like whether it's stable with those modules.

Originally by: Hondri
?4 - I dont actually understand why there is a left hand panel, this stuff should rejoin the bottom of the left side as buttons stuck to the bottom corner.

The left hand panel allows you to fit modules without having to open another window. Basically it provides you with an inventory filter. If you were not opposed to it "just because" you would probably realize how much this can simplify fitting ships for you.
It will most likely also be the place where you can access previously saved fittings.

Originally by: Hondri
?5 - The radial bars, I dont even understand what the hell they do - there doesnt seem to be a rational natural mapping - Scrap them and stick to displaying fitting constraints as horizontal bars.

They could stick with the bars if they made them symmetrical, i.e. from 0° to 180° or from 30° to 150°, but definitely not from 0° to 150°. They also need a visual 0% and 100% marker.

Originally by: Hondri
?6 - This whole row is redundant, if people cant work out the resistances listed in the table below from the colours and rollover tooltips, they shouldnt be playing eve - remove redundant things.

You might want to click on the box with the small white triangle. It should highlight on mouseover though.

Originally by: Hondri
The middle window - I dont understand it.
The only use there is is to examine how your newly fitted T3 components look like, however on every other ship type it is excess that really isnt needed. It provides a redundant function and without an actual benefit, should be removed.

Not everything has to be about pure functionality. Eve has to constantly attract new people as there will be no Eve II. You can't stick with the classic engine forever because some few individuals cannot afford a graphics card (or laptop - sorry for you). You can't stick with the excel tables forever when all other games move forward.
You want to be some kind of retro-island in a sea of shiny new games. That's not going to work.

Originally by: Hondri
In summary, it isnt functional - it doesnt provide anything besides a "my t3 ship looks cool with this mod" feedback. Make it optional[non default] or remove it. Screw circular designs.


You said you've done interface design. Did you ever provide alternative interfaces to your customers (short of fluffy colors)? ... I thought so. You don't just scrap work like this either, but you would know that too.
The old fitting screen probably hasn't even been upgraded to support T3 ships, so I seriously doubt they'll scrap a fitting screen which a guaranteed 90+% of their new customers (*hint* box release *hint*) would prefer to the old one, just because some people object to change.
It sure requires a lot of tuning before it goes live, but it's a nice start and one I hope they'll expand on.

Arengor
Redarmy Special Forces
Posted - 2009.02.17 12:54:00 - [250]
 


Maliece
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.02.17 14:55:00 - [251]
 

i really hate the new screen, running a resolution of 1920x1080 windowed and this new monster wastes the whole space on my screen (its going into neocom and sation panel)

the new stats are nice but worthless, as long as there is no option to activate moduls to see how this setup will work in space, tbh. in a change like this i would expect to see stats and tools like EFT provides.

the ring of waste didnīt match into the squared designed eve is using today, more anoying if you click on 100% transparent parts of the new interface to activate something in the background it dosnīt work.

I would suggest to scrap this design for fitting, use it for something like a ship museum where people could take a look at a ship they are not able to fly atm. For fitting purpose its a heavy step backwards in usability and efficiency (except the ability to save and load fitting, thats the real awersome, and sad to say, the only good thing in the new fitting window)


H Zebra
Zebra Corp
Posted - 2009.02.18 13:03:00 - [252]
 

Just been on sisi again... wow its movible. but is still unclear not straightforward to use. slots are all over shop and still has a problem scaling to smaller windows and screen res... just give us teh option to use teh old one if we want ccp. let teh user decide which one they would like.

i just dont understand why that is such a problem for you CCP Fendahl

Iluminat
Minmatar
Sharp Dressed Man
Posted - 2009.02.19 12:45:00 - [253]
 

The new fitting screen is a Monstrosity.
It scared the hell out of me when i first opened it.
Even the lightbulbs in my house stopped glowing for a second.
Sometimes less is better, like the old fitting screen.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.19 15:59:00 - [254]
 

Edited by: Stitcher on 19/02/2009 16:07:58
...have you guys looked at it within the last two days? It changed pretty dramatically. Big improvement.

because right now I'm reading the comments in this thread, and they seem to all be based on the old build. Some of these comments are whining about the lack of features that actually appeared on SiSi before the comment was posted. Here's the new one:

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


H Zebra
Zebra Corp
Posted - 2009.02.19 16:10:00 - [255]
 

Originally by: Stitcher
...have you guys looked at it within the last two days? It changed pretty dramatically. Big improvement.


yep was on sisi yesterday and today, still covers 60% of my screen, still has no logical layout and is still hard to read. in fact ive found it harder to read now with the worst colour sceam you could have ever asked for, yes ive played with the colours and wow there all pretty bad. i either have to close both sides and loose all the info that its telling me to fit a ship or not use it and just look at eft and my hanger to get any kind of fuctionality going on.

what makes me even more anoyed by this is that it was designed primarly for t3, as t3 will be hard to get hold of, vastly expensive and a lot of people just wont use because of teh skill point loss. i struggle to find any reason to inflict this on the whole player base. if i happend to want to waste billions of isk on one when i go to set it up, the t3 fitting screen should pop up by default as its t3 for t3. the rest of teh time i can not see a reason to see what different sub systems i cant fit to either my t1 or t2 ships.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.19 16:31:00 - [256]
 

Originally by: H Zebra
what makes me even more anoyed by this is that it was designed primarly for t3, as t3 will be hard to get hold of, vastly expensive and a lot of people just wont use because of teh skill point loss. i struggle to find any reason to inflict this on the whole player base. if i happend to want to waste billions of isk on one when i go to set it up, the t3 fitting screen should pop up by default as its t3 for t3. the rest of teh time i can not see a reason to see what different sub systems i cant fit to either my t1 or t2 ships.



wooo... skill loss. *waves fingers in air spookily*

seriously, man up and give it some time. I'm thinking tech 3 is going to be massively more popular than you think.

This new window works fine for other ships as well. There's some extra functionality in there that I quite like, such as the effective HP readout and tank calculator. If they included damage output and a cap calculator as well, then it'd save me alt-tabbing out to use EFT.

it consumes the same amount of screen as the old fitting window did if not less, all the relevant information you need IS clearly labelled and there's a bit more in there for good measure, and all-in-all I consider it an improvement on the original. I even find it easy to read, although not necessarily easier.

Quote:
i either have to close both sides and loose all the info that its telling me to fit a ship or not use it and just look at eft and my hanger to get any kind of fuctionality going on.


Have you considered doing this?:

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

You can still drag/drop modules from your hangar, so you don't technically NEED the left-hand side of the fitting window.

schurem
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.02.19 17:00:00 - [257]
 

on my box, which i consider fairly hawt, not to say pretty l33t, the new fitting screen plummets frames per second down to numbers that can be counted on one hand. not usable at all. in space its fine however.

I kind of like the new fitting screen. The guy who shopped in a drone stats header in the right hand panel was right, that would be great. Also cargo and drone bay readings would be nice to have.

I cant wait to see the next iteration of it.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.19 17:25:00 - [258]
 

Originally by: schurem
on my box, which i consider fairly hawt, not to say pretty l33t, the new fitting screen plummets frames per second down to numbers that can be counted on one hand. not usable at all. in space its fine however.


hunh. Strange, I didn't get any such problems, and I'm using a laptop.

FinrodFelagund
Posted - 2009.02.20 08:35:00 - [259]
 

Fitting window is way too big.

Must look awefully nice for people with 30 inch screens, but for my 19inch one it is just too massive and clunky.

Won't bother me though as long as I can use the old fitting window.

TCL987
Gallente
Posted - 2009.02.20 09:19:00 - [260]
 

There is a bug with the Render Window in the new fitting window. The ship render lags behind when you move the window and it gets squished when you drag it off the bottom or right side of the screen. It won't go past the top of the screen and dragging it off the left side makes it disappear.

Suga H
Gallente
Wreckage Reclamation Enforcement Consortium
Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub
Posted - 2009.02.20 15:37:00 - [261]
 

Still say that CPU and PG should be right next to each other (preferably close to capacitor), and the turret and missile hardpoints should be right next to each other. Atleast now the Hi Mid Low now corrisponds to Left, Top, Right, though having a Top, Middle, Bottom would be preferred. Now it's a moveable window, but resizing would still be nice. (The option for old fitting window would still be great! Wouldn't be too hard to add in the little bit more information that's shown)


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