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H Zebra
Zebra Corp
Posted - 2009.02.11 19:40:00 - [181]
 

Edited by: H Zebra on 11/02/2009 20:49:51
Edited by: H Zebra on 11/02/2009 19:47:06
Edited by: H Zebra on 11/02/2009 19:42:24
ive taken a screen shot of what i have too look at playing with the same settings as tq

New Fitting window

same settings Tq screen shot
current
so maybe now you can see why i have such an issue with it

H Zebra
Zebra Corp
Posted - 2009.02.11 20:56:00 - [182]
 

sorry broken links, can see all screens in the 2nd link right hand side

Keira Trefenwyd
Posted - 2009.02.11 21:08:00 - [183]
 

my 2 cents is that it is utter crap, yes it looks great! The problem is not with the presentation, but with the usability. When i fit a ship I use the contents of my hanger which encompasses roughly 3/4 of my screen with the fitting screen on the bottom right portion. With this implementation the fitting screen is hidden behind most of my corp hanger. Really if your going forward with design changes, make something that works well first and then looks good second. What was wrong with the old one anyway?Confused

Inspiration
Posted - 2009.02.11 21:12:00 - [184]
 

Edited by: Inspiration on 11/02/2009 21:18:41
Edited by: Inspiration on 11/02/2009 21:17:17
Everything about the new fitting screen is bad from a usability design point of view. Sure the old one could be made prettier with a sidebar to show your ship as you put T3 subsystem in it. The whole ring part reminds me of earlier and now outdated versions of EVE. Some scream that this is progress, but I would call it mindless degeneration and not learning from lessons of the past. Just using the spare lows in the current screen would be perfect and add a sidebar for the memory impaired, showing their ship AGAIN.

Module fitting from hangar trough a different interface then dragging them from somewhere? Terrible idea as you punish everyone that has a tidy hangar and reward the idiots, it might very well remove flexibility instead of making things easyer.

Hit points display, trying to copy EFT (which lacks in this respect)? That is not progress, most ships will have some form of tanking applied to them, be it self- or remote repair from fleet. For a tank to hold and not leak into the next layer, the total hit points in the tank buffer (shield or armor, not both and certainly not structure) is what is meaningful information. To complicate it a bit...armor leaks into structure without a skill to prevent the bleeding such as with shield. Thus in fact with armor you start dying even sooner then the buffer would indicate!

I got one word, FAIL in every respect. I know visual design is a lot about personal taste, thus very subjective....I can live with that. But given points raised and my own ones, it is mostly the lack of usefulness that bugs me. The design is totally focused on style and lacks meaning. Why not just attach a drawings folder to EVE where everyone that is in for the pretty pictures can drool over and leave the players with more practical stuff.

PS. The forum is STILL horribly broken for over 4 years...I am lucky to be adaptive and I copied the text to my clipboard before posting, so I can try again.

Inspiration
Posted - 2009.02.11 21:26:00 - [185]
 

Originally by: Aurora Reverte
Originally by: small chimp
Edited by: small chimp on 11/02/2009 08:05:29
Will that new fitting interface support cans? Or do I have to have all my 100+ modules in main hangar getting messed with stuff i get from buy orders?



Seconded. My hangar has everything in cans. Am I going to have to drag each module I want to fit to the main items hangar before I can actually fit it? Or can I just drag stuff directly from cans to slots?


With a fitting screen this size it is impractical either way.

Sfynx
Caldari
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.02.11 21:27:00 - [186]
 

Originally by: Professor Dumbledore
Edited by: Professor Dumbledore on 09/02/2009 19:17:08
who ever designed this needs to pull their head out of their ass and learn to design.

http://www.saunalahti.fi/~fub/moarfitting.jpg

is terrible and heads need to roll.


That shot looks awesome to me. Throw a Close button on it and make it a bit less transparent, and it is perfect.

Hu Lacour
HeadQuarter
Posted - 2009.02.11 21:38:00 - [187]
 

Edited by: Hu Lacour on 11/02/2009 21:40:59
Originally by: Sfynx
Originally by: Professor Dumbledore
Edited by: Professor Dumbledore on 09/02/2009 19:17:08
who ever designed this needs to pull their head out of their ass and learn to design.

http://www.saunalahti.fi/~fub/moarfitting.jpg

is terrible and heads need to roll.


That shot looks awesome to me. Throw a Close button on it and make it a bit less transparent, and it is perfect.


I also think its awesome but not perfect yet! I'm still pondering if it should be window look'a'like at all? Maybe it should be whole station interior screen? hmm.. Also resolution is slight problem..

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2009.02.11 21:46:00 - [188]
 

Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
the implementation currently on sisi is not the final one and a blog is due out shortly from fendahl about the new fitting screen but to stress again, it will be iterated on before release and all feedback is welcome.


That was a given, the current was would have caused an uproar. :p

I'd like to point out that all the space inside the circle is wasted. Players don't care much about seeing their ship's appearance when they're addiing or removing modules, drones and ammos. That's quite a bit of space you could use reduce the fitting screen size.


The central space is clearly aimed at allowing players to see what their T3 'c-c-c-combos' would look like when assembled with various sub systems(without having to leave the fittings window in the process).

C.



Dochas
Posted - 2009.02.11 21:58:00 - [189]
 

Originally by: Cailais

The central space is clearly aimed at allowing players to see what their T3 'c-c-c-combos' would look like when assembled with various sub systems(without having to leave the fittings window in the process).

C.




Probably true but as nice as visuals can be the ship components should be picked based on what they do not on how they look, making the circle unnecessary and just wasting space.

Inspiration
Posted - 2009.02.11 22:03:00 - [190]
 

Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
the implementation currently on sisi is not the final one and a blog is due out shortly from fendahl about the new fitting screen but to stress again, it will be iterated on before release and all feedback is welcome.


That was a given, the current was would have caused an uproar. :p

I'd like to point out that all the space inside the circle is wasted. Players don't care much about seeing their ship's appearance when they're addiing or removing modules, drones and ammos. That's quite a bit of space you could use reduce the fitting screen size.


The central space is clearly aimed at allowing players to see what their T3 'c-c-c-combos' would look like when assembled with various sub systems(without having to leave the fittings window in the process).

C.





Obviously, but that would be more practical as a side pane so it doesn't dictate the whole fitting screen design itself as it does now. Removing the ship view from the center and make it optional on the side would get rid of most of the clutter and interface design flaws. As it stands now, the least useful (visual) feature gets all the focus instead of the (functional) fitting itself.

And ffs, again the forum lets me down and have to repost!

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2009.02.11 23:29:00 - [191]
 

Originally by: Dochas
Originally by: Cailais

The central space is clearly aimed at allowing players to see what their T3 'c-c-c-combos' would look like when assembled with various sub systems(without having to leave the fittings window in the process).

C.




Probably true but as nice as visuals can be the ship components should be picked based on what they do not on how they look, making the circle unnecessary and just wasting space.


That lost space could be reclaimed by better utilising the collapse able side windows of the fitting screen.

Allow those side windows to collapse / expand to show [market details*], [items in hangar], [cargo], [drones], [chat window], [module comparison data] and so forth.

A series of 'hot buttons' down the left/right side of the central fitting circle could probably work in this respect.

The problem is not just the fitting window - but all the other windows youre likely to want to have open at the same time.

C.

*(possibly too large a UI feature in this case, but you might be able to display elements off the market bar).

H Zebra
Zebra Corp
Posted - 2009.02.12 08:18:00 - [192]
 

Id just like ccp to confirm that they will or wont let us use the old one if we wish

its not a trick question

Locii
Posted - 2009.02.12 12:17:00 - [193]
 

New one looks ok, but is unworkible unless you play at full screen. what is teh point of having the client with the ability to play in windowed mode, when window mode isnt supported by the current UI.

seems like they broke something that didnt need fixing yet again.
great job ccp

Jung Hi
Posted - 2009.02.12 16:45:00 - [194]
 

I love the new fitting screen, but think CCP managed to overlook the one feature I used the old fitting screen for besides actually fitting my ship... ammo attributes.

You used to be able to be able to right click the Ammo -> Show Info to be able to see the actual stats for it when loaded in the weapon with BCU, Gyros, etc. taken into account, however no more. You can see the Ammo Quantity/Type when you hover over the weapon, but when you right click -> Show info. Nada. Simply shows the weapon stats, not the ammo.

Bug report: 70093

Note: I'm really hoping this is a bug/something that's been overlooked... rather than intended.

Also, the Capacitor side menu - for lack of a better word - seems somewhat pointless.
Please can you change it to as shown at number 7 here? (As in changing it to the "Ship Energy Capacity" section). Pretty please with cherries on top Wink

The one thing I dislike about it is the moving bars for cpu, powergrid etc. would be much better if shown as suggested in the above mockup.

Otherwise though, good gob. Like it Smile

Skyy
Caldari
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2009.02.12 18:49:00 - [195]
 

I've had minimal time on the test server, but I just needed to voice my concern with the fitting window. It lacks functionality! All the new fancy stuff doesn't mean jack to me if the feel and interface is obtrusive and hard to read. I, for one, dock my item and ship bays inside the station bar. It's an option on the ESC menu to do so. However, the new fitting GUI overlaps my item and ship bays. Sure there are option to hide and reveal things... but I have to do it again and again, over and over! It's such a pain, when before I could just move my fit window and see it all there.

One thing for sure... this fitting GUI needs to change... or keep the classic version with a few add-ons. I appreciate the time and effort on the new fittings, but trash it and start over. It feels like a big blob of crap was thrown on my screen and I can't sc****d it off.

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.02.12 18:59:00 - [196]
 

Originally by: N'olive
The fitting screen definately need a "Close" button, else you have to fold the side part to be able to click the "Fitting" button in the services to close it.


Or push CTRL+W, like you close any other window in Eve or Windows.

Stalina
Gallente
Serious Business Incorporated
Posted - 2009.02.12 19:02:00 - [197]
 

So far I like the new fitting screen. Only thing I miss is the drones & cargo button you have on the old one. you need to check ships-tab and rightclick to open dronebay, while with the old fitting screen you simply clicked on "drones" or "cargo" to open it ( double click anywhere in station still opens cargo though).

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.02.12 19:03:00 - [198]
 

I like it a lot.

All you luddites should actually learn how to use it before whining.

You can close the side parts. >> and << are universal "collapse/expand" buttons in Eve.

The keyboard isn't just for chat. Push CTRL+W to close any window. It's faster than clicking some little "x" button, anyway.

You shouldn't need the hangar window open anymore. It's built-in.

This window provides more info in one place than the old window and it's perfectly practical and functional if you somehow manage to adapt and learn to use it.

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.02.12 19:06:00 - [199]
 

Edited by: Kyra Felann on 12/02/2009 19:12:22
Originally by: Stalina
So far I like the new fitting screen. Only thing I miss is the drones & cargo button you have on the old one. you need to check ships-tab and rightclick to open dronebay, while with the old fitting screen you simply clicked on "drones" or "cargo" to open it ( double click anywhere in station still opens cargo though).


Or assign a keyboard shortcut and then just press it. I haven't clicked the cargohold or dronebay buttons since my first week in Eve over a year ago. It's a proven fact (yes, there was a study done years ago) that keyboard shortcuts are quicker than clicking buttons.

EDIT: The drones and cargo is listed on the left pane. I'm guessing you haven't used or looked at it, since you have your item hangar open on the station pane. It's all built in to one window now. You no longer need 4 windows open to fit your ship.

Stalina
Gallente
Serious Business Incorporated
Posted - 2009.02.12 19:12:00 - [200]
 

Edited by: Stalina on 12/02/2009 19:13:22
Originally by: Kyra Felann
I haven't clicked the cargohold or dronebay buttons since my first week in Eve over a year ago. It's a proven fact (yes, there was a study done years ago) that keyboard shortcuts are quicker than clicking buttons.


So far I only use my keyboard for chatting or pressing F-keys to activate modules in busy situations ( in eve ). And while everything else is accessible with a mouseclick, only these two things should now need a keyboard shortcut, because you never used the clickable icon ?

Well then everything should be controlable with keyboard, direction your ships flies and stuff, but i dont see that coming ever.
Originally by: Kyra Felann

EDIT: The drones and cargo is listed on the left pane. I'm guessing you haven't used or looked at it, since you have your item hangar open on the station pane. It's all built in to one window now. You no longer need 4 windows open to fit your ship.

I tried that one, couldn't put any drones in there or cargo.

H Zebra
Zebra Corp
Posted - 2009.02.12 19:21:00 - [201]
 

Originally by: Kyra Felann
I like it a lot.

All you luddites should actually learn how to use it before whining.

You can close the side parts. >> and << are universal "collapse/expand" buttons in Eve.

The keyboard isn't just for chat. Push CTRL+W to close any window. It's faster than clicking some little "x" button, anyway.

You shouldn't need the hangar window open anymore. It's built-in.

This window provides more info in one place than the old window and it's perfectly practical and functional if you somehow manage to adapt and learn to use it.


i know how to use it and still it lacks functionality. i have to close every thing on my screen apart for teh fitting window to fit a ship. thats just wrong, badly designed and poorly thought out. if you happened to play in windowed mode at the size i do 1024 x 768 its totally unusible.
i understand that anyone who plays on full screen may love the doughnut in the middle with there pretty ship in. i just want something i can fit my ship with easily so im not stuck in station resizing everything and closing windows for 10 mins to be able to use teh fitting screen.
you may say adapt or die, but i doubt ill be dying if im sat there for 20mins fitting my ship and resizing everything.

Loraen
Posted - 2009.02.12 22:10:00 - [202]
 

Originally by: Kyra Felann
You shouldn't need the hangar window open anymore. It's built-in.


No, it isn't. There's a drop-down menu for "personal modules" or whatever, which only lists modules in your hangar and ignores things like the big container named Fittings..

Rosur
Gallente
Heroes.
Posted - 2009.02.12 22:24:00 - [203]
 

Like it but the only things i wish to change with it are that you should be able to resise the window and make it so theres a close button on the fitting screen as its really annyoning when u go to close it u cant and have to click on the icon u launch the fitting screen.

ResearchBunny Beatrix
Posted - 2009.02.13 01:36:00 - [204]
 

I like the new fitting window, but I'd like 2 things added:

An X in the usual spot
a pin button in the usual spot to make the damn thing opaque

that's it, thanks.

fake edit:

Actually, a movable fitting window with a miniature (spinning) version of your ship rendered in the middle (instead of the hole) would be Totally Awesome™, Dude.

Manfred Rickenbocker
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2009.02.13 07:05:00 - [205]
 

Originally by: Inspiration


Module fitting from hangar trough a different interface then dragging them from somewhere? Terrible idea as you punish everyone that has a tidy hangar and reward the idiots, it might very well remove flexibility instead of making things easyer.




I dont know whether anyone has noticed, but you can still drag and drop your mods onto the fittings window. Its awfully cluttered, but still works.

Pytria Le'Danness
Posted - 2009.02.13 09:13:00 - [206]
 

Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker
I dont know whether anyone has noticed, but you can still drag and drop your mods onto the fittings window. Its awfully cluttered, but still works.


Yeah, currently I do either that or right-click the module in the container and select "Fit To Active Ship".
I dislike the right-click menu though since it has tihings like "Trash this" too close to important choices.

Sade Onyx
Posted - 2009.02.13 09:54:00 - [207]
 

Originally by: Stalina
So far I like the new fitting screen. Only thing I miss is the drones & cargo button you have on the old one. you need to check ships-tab and rightclick to open dronebay, while with the old fitting screen you simply clicked on "drones" or "cargo" to open it ( double click anywhere in station still opens cargo though).


Off topic, but I would like to know what armor resists you get on that kronos with your DCU turned on ;)

On topic, Im all up for change but the only problem I see with that new fitting screen is that its too big! I'm in 1680x1050 full screen currently and I still get lost with all the windows I've got open, trying to drag items from hanger onto fitting screen is very annoying (as a window always seems to be overlapping the slot that I want to populate)

Stalina
Gallente
Serious Business Incorporated
Posted - 2009.02.13 11:08:00 - [208]
 

Edited by: Stalina on 13/02/2009 13:57:48
Edited by: Stalina on 13/02/2009 13:55:33
Originally by: Sade Onyx

Off topic, but I would like to know what armor resists you get on that kronos with your DCU turned on ;)

em 74.437; exp 71.261; kin 75.076; therm 70.922

edit : "," changed for "."

Originally by: Cadde

I'd say, when typing in English, one should follow the English standard.

I was just lemming-like typing what I read on my screen. Sisi-client automatically set language to german. I ususally play with english client though.

HeyDude I'mHarmless
Posted - 2009.02.13 12:45:00 - [209]
 

The new fitting window forces me to resize my items window to a tiny size. Otherwise either the items window covers the rig slots in the fitting screen, or the fitting screen covers the rigs in my items. Obviously you can't move or resize the new fittings window, so I get to shrink my items window to one row of modules.

Cadde
Gallente
221st Century Warfare
Posted - 2009.02.13 12:45:00 - [210]
 

Originally by: Stalina
Originally by: Sade Onyx

Off topic, but I would like to know what armor resists you get on that kronos with your DCU turned on ;)

em 74,437; exp 71,261; kin 75,076; therm 70,922



Let me just point out that the "comma" is the German decimal point. Smile
Even i, who is a Swede and follow the same standard was like. Wtf?

I'd say, when typing in English, one should follow the English standard.


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