open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked New Dev Blog: Linux Support Update
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5

Author Topic

Pivalak
Haiku Enterprises
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:14:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Leuko Uratne
An understandable move, as the official linux client wasn't very good anyway. I would appreciate if you could spend just a little time testing patches on wine though, just to make sure the game is at least somewhat playable on wine after patches.


This is the kind of constructive outcome I'm looking forward too.

kakmonstret
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:37:00 - [32]
 

Well it was quite obvious beforehand what was on the way. I honestly believe it is the wrong way to go in many ways and the so call statistics are just BS. In truth CCP did care so little about Linux usage that didn't even bother to really check how many that uses the OS. And all you about using the official client are talking garbage. There really was two options not playing at all or playing with wine the so called official client was not a working alternative.

I think that the official support did get more Linux players into EVE even if they fairly quickly switched over to wine. But there was hope for that one day we would have a official client that worked.

As some others have said please don't remove the Linux part of the forum!

Basically this is a official statement that transgaming can't do what wine has been able to do for a long time now. This has nothing to do with the Linux part of the problem and all to do with that the win32 and directX API:s are undocumented and therefore very hard to implement again.

Lastly don't bring the windows is the only gaming OS garbage into here it has nothing to do with this discussion.

WheatGrass
Silent but Friendly
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:43:00 - [33]
 

It's too bad that the original thread got locked. Also, it appears that SlashDot has an article up with unfavorable spin. Crying or Very sad Perhaps before the next major news release some CCP PR person could distribute a press release before hand to various news outlets to prevent CCP fallout from happening. Idea I seems preferable that the SlashDot article not be "CCP To Discontinue EVE Online Support For Linux" but rather, 'CCP Dumps Cedega'. Oh well.

Evangeline Vice
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:44:00 - [34]
 

where is my possitive and shiny new dev. blog about Apocrypha ?

now serious ,i dont play under linux but from what i understand the client was crap so or so(no offense to the team behing it),better to run under wine...so why dont close one support and open from the team another one (wine+eve) ?


Luke S
Zeta Corp.
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:51:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Luke S on 09/02/2009 14:52:16
Originally by: kakmonstret
I honestly believe it is the wrong way to go in many ways and the so call statistics are just BS. In truth CCP did care so little about Linux usage that didn't even bother to really check how many that uses the OS.

The statistics showed that the client that you guys run in wine, was windows. now unless you want CCP to be like Blizzard and take a look at your computer with out you knowing, by all means join WoW.

Quote:
And all you about using the official client are talking garbage. There really was two options not playing at all or playing with wine the so called official client was not a working alternative.


STill you should have used it. it was the only way for CCP to know that you are using their client.

Quote:
I think that the official support did get more Linux players into EVE even if they fairly quickly switched over to wine. But there was hope for that one day we would have a official client that worked.


More then likely. But since people like to use 3rd party software. why would CCP try to spend the time and money on a program where the community is smart enough to do it themselves, and at a faster rate too.

Quote:

Lastly don't bring the windows is the only gaming OS garbage into here it has nothing to do with this discussion.


your right i'm not going thereLaughing

kakmonstret
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:51:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: kakmonstret on 09/02/2009 14:58:42
WheatGrass the /. article is not unfortunate spin it's the truth, is it negative? Yes, of course it is there are no more support for EVE in Linux from CCP nill nada null. Now there is absolutely NOTHING that differs EVE from the rest of windows games that run on wine. For us Linux users it could if we are out of luck that after the next update the client wont start at all. While we had support at least we could use official to log on and make skill changes and such things.

Ninja edit to reply to post above:

As there is a wine reg entry in the wine windows registry it would be ok even good if CCP looked for this.

What they should have done was to NOT drop support for Linux but instead find a way to support a client running in wine. Maybe a install script, trying to get the client into Linux package managers with the right dependences or something else.

What more they should have posted in the forum saying plain and simply this is not working any ideas?

Luteros
Minmatar
Cronos Titan
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:54:00 - [37]
 

It seems to be the right decision to scrap the official Linux client because it was inferior to the Win client + Wine solution.

But don't think there are no Linux players! Have an eye on how the client runs with Wine and please don't break it.

Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
Posted - 2009.02.09 15:03:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Evangeline Vice
where is my possitive and shiny new dev. blog about Apocrypha ?

now serious ,i dont play under linux but from what i understand the client was crap so or so(no offense to the team behing it),better to run under wine...so why dont close one support and open from the team another one (wine+eve) ?




becasue CCP did never support Linux to begin with. they bought the service from Transgaming. so they can't shift support as that would actualy need a dev to work on this.

Dracira Dracc
Posted - 2009.02.09 15:22:00 - [39]
 

can we get the numbers? How many are using the mac client? The growth over the last 6 Month? Or are the numbers a secret?


Katana Seiko
Gallente
Posted - 2009.02.09 15:37:00 - [40]
 

Why should CCP support native Linux Support? With Wine (and a few other adds), the original client (even the premium one) runs on Linux allmost as smooth as it runs on Windows. The linux support is not necessary (and never really was)...

CCP Fallout

Posted - 2009.02.09 15:52:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Hugh Ruka
Question to CCP Navigator:

Why did you lock This thread ??? It is a day OLDER than this Dev Blog and is in the relevant forum section.


Typically, it's against the rules to comment on moderator actions, but in this case I'd like to offer an explanation. Now that we have the blog out, we're focusing all forum postings into this official thread. This will make it easier for Whisper and others to better follow any Linux-related commentary.

Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2009.02.09 16:16:00 - [42]
 

As someone who's spent many years developing bits of linux I can't help but be saddened by this decision, however I've also been frustrated by the fact that the official client never compared favourably to the Windows client on Wine.

So, if you can just set your QA people up with a Linux + Wine + Eve machine or two that would really buy you back more karma than you've lost by this cancellation.

Jat Friesch
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.02.09 16:30:00 - [43]
 

I don't really care about the "official" Linux client. It caused problems like this: http://www.exaile.org/eveissues.png. I asked on the forum, and someone immediately told me that using Wine fixed problems like that.

If I had known that switching to using just plain Wine would throw off statistics and make it so that CCP thought no one used Linux, I would have kept using the broken client.

What I'm really afraid of is that we'll be ignored now. Just like Blizzard ignores WoW players that use Linux.

Ravow
Minmatar
Cosmic Encounter
Mayhem.
Posted - 2009.02.09 16:41:00 - [44]
 

For the Linux users count, it is very flawed as I never get a successful login with the Cedegatized client :(

The wine+eve worked flawless with my ATI card in Classic mode and can be used with premium too if I don't have the choice (Invisible ship but I always see ship square and overview)

Will pray for a working client with wine + premium lite....

Syekuda
Hell's Revenge
Posted - 2009.02.09 16:42:00 - [45]
 

I feel that CCP tried to support the linux side of Eve the lazy way. Nothing wrong with it but looks like its not the best way in CCP's case. This led to numerous bugs and such. For example, my freaking crash bug that I can't fix on linux (2 distro's same thing) that looks like a lack of hardware issue and the ati support (which is not good) that is not really the best.

In short, looks like the open source version (wine is one) is the best solution for now. I wish that a linux guru nerd like dev can work for CCP to release an official client that CCP WORKED FOR.

in other words, let go of cedega for gawd's sake. Other than that, good try ccp but still not enough.

p.s:

Bill Gates : 1
Linus Torvald: 0

Nikumo Nikado
Posted - 2009.02.09 16:50:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Syekuda

p.s:

Bill Gates : 1
Linus Torvald: 0


Err, that should be:

Bill Gates: -1 (for not working with software written for other OSes and being such a PITA for software written for this OS to work well with others)
Linus Torvalds: +1 (for working well with software written for other OS-es WITHOUT official support from the software developer)

Gates-jab aside, the wine-based eve works well - please just don't put anything in the windoze client that might break this, casually and without thought.

I think it might be better for just ONE EVE developer to play using the wine client and try to make things better for those that use wine+eve.


Jat Friesch
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.02.09 16:52:00 - [47]
 

Oh, just some other things to think about:

This is what happened to me:

1. Downloaded official Linux client (I assume this is the part that put me on the official linux client list to get the email saying linux support was going to be dropped)

2. Found that it didn't work very well. I looked around on the forums, and didn't find a whole lot that matched my exact problem

3. File a petition, with the screenshot: http://www.exaile.org/eveissues.png

4. Kept searching forums. Found that EVE runs better in Wine.

5. Installed EVE with Wine. It runs perfectly, so I keep doing that.

6. Get a response to my petition. It basically asks details about my system, which distribution, that sort of thing.

7. I, like an idiot, ignore this email, because at this point, I figure it's fixed.

Linux users are used to have to going things on their own a little bit.

HOWEVER, it is obvious that CCP is at least actually reading these forum posts. Here's the problem with that, though:

Players that never downloaded the official client would have not been on the mailing list to get the email about Linux support being dropped. They probably don't even know, so they can't add to our numbers in these forum posts.

Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see
Chained Reactions
Posted - 2009.02.09 16:52:00 - [48]
 

This is does not realy supprices me. Just take a look at the Linux Forums. Most of the Linux users never understud why CCP was still "supporting" Eve through cedega/transgaming.
I Think there are better ways to bring games to the Linux platform. Linux is all about community especially when it comes to games. Just support their efforts to keep the wine solution working:

- Talk to the community if you changed something that may have an impact on wine. If people know what and when to test on singularity they will do.
- Try to help out with additional Information on the wine Bugzilla if they try to fix a Bug
- Guide players that want to play Eve on Linux to the right communities

Maybe you already did that, i don't know. At least you never talked about it.

It may also be helpful if you allow the community to repack your client, so they can bundle it with the distributions (you know, in religion-free-repos). Something similar to the official client (but working, yarr). This is for easy installation. Is this possible from a copyright/trademark/.. point of view?

And thx for this awesome game. Always dreamed of a game like this, years ago when i was alone in my ship out there in the gemini sector..

Kendrix Arathan
Minmatar
wiggle Tech.
Posted - 2009.02.09 17:22:00 - [49]
 

I agree with what seems to be the majority opinion.

Sad to see support "officially" dropped, understanding of the reasons, and in no way worried about my ability to play EVE under linux.

It was a noble effort, that i applaud, to try and span the 3 biggest OS platforms. But the strain of trying to program for that variety was i think evidenced by the quality of the linux client.

As others have said, any reasonable effort to try and help wine compatibility would be greatly appreciated.


Originally by: Akor Flandres
Well maybe if you and more of your self righteous linux brethren had used the linux client and helped them to make it better this wouldn't be happening, you pathetic troll.


Seriously, did the bully at your school wear a linux T-shirt or what?

Casiella Truza
Ecliptic Rift
Posted - 2009.02.09 17:39:00 - [50]
 

I just bought a Linux laptop (arriving Wednesday), chosen in part for its ability to play EVE. Crying or Very sad

While I totally understand the business decision here, maybe they could contribute to Wine financially so that we can continue to have this option?

CursedEagle79
Wrecking Shots
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2009.02.09 18:55:00 - [51]
 

I personally use a dual-boot computer, Windows and Linux. I always had trouble with the Cedega client, and thus switched to using Wine. It's buggy, but I have Windows as well (actually, EVE is just about the only reason I still have windows). Some better porting/working with Wine would be much appreciated, if possible.

Blaster Fairy
Caldari
Bulgarian Mafia Squad
Sons of Tangra
Posted - 2009.02.09 19:32:00 - [52]
 

Again GNU/Linux users got their hands bended Neutral but that's the price we're paying for our freedom. Of course we'll find a solution somehow. The problem is that I'm playing EVE for almost an year and if I knew somehow that this support will end I wouldn't star playing. Anyway I'll probably quit EVE instead of booting under Windows - that is not the way to constrain people which OS should they use using their affinity to a certain product against them.

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2009.02.09 19:44:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Nikumo Nikado
Bill Gates: -1 (for not working with software written for other OSes and being such a PITA for software written for this OS to work well with others)
Windows was there first - at least in anything resembling significant take-up. Linux developers chose to enter the desktop arena that Microsoft/Windows had created. If compatibility was a requirement then Linux should have followed Windows.

Thankfully Windows compatibility wasn't a requirement and Linux benefitted from being able to go its own way.

Ix Forres
Caldari
Righteous Chaps
Posted - 2009.02.09 19:55:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Ix Forres on 09/02/2009 19:55:55
I've stated this on the other thread- I'm disappointed, but hope that CCP will at least consider spending some time with EVE and Wine, helping the Wine community to help them.

I've also started up a blog/guide website, EVEaholic (available at http://eveaholic.mmmetrics.co.uk/), which is dedicated to helping people getting up and running with EVE under Wine. If you're a Linux EVE player and would like to contribute, let me know ingame or on IRC (#eveaholic irc.coldfront.net)- I'm not a full-time EVE Linux user, so help would be appreciated in writing guides for the site. I felt that if CCP would not support Linux users, the community could at least play a part in helping Linux users play EVE, and that a central source of information that has been checked and written properly was severely lacking.

Blaster Fairy
Caldari
Bulgarian Mafia Squad
Sons of Tangra
Posted - 2009.02.09 20:00:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Blaster Fairy on 09/02/2009 20:03:06
In reply to Andrue:

Windows was better indeed, but now the time has come for OS X and Gnu/Linux.
We're talking about choice here. Windows doesn't give you this (you might think you have it but you're wrong). I remember that there was a great commercial about this. If you search youtube for keywords:
Red Hat Linux 3 and watch the first video.

Well... I'm done with this discussion. I'm sure that we cannot change anything as we don't have enough numbers to match Windows users. I just want to appeal to all GNU/Linux EVE players - please quit playing EVE if the game stops to run over WINE - don't give your money to switch to Windows Sad

Shadow Lightbringer
Nightghosts Inc
Posted - 2009.02.09 20:25:00 - [56]
 

I received the email Sunday morning and my first reaction was, "Damn CCP, it's about time you dumped Cedega for Linux". The gripes about it hae already been posted in this thread, and users were justifiably upset about the lack of support and development.

But at the same time, I have to suspect that CCP couldn't help but watch the Linux forum, see their customers having a better experience through Wine, and wonder to themselves, "Why are we paying Cedega for a Linux client again?". I for one am happy that CCP has finally stuck a fork in the official client so they can spend the money on other things. I just hope they keep the Linux forum open because it is a great resource for those of us who run EVE under Wine.

Ravow
Minmatar
Cosmic Encounter
Mayhem.
Posted - 2009.02.09 20:29:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Ravow on 09/02/2009 20:30:23
The Linux count thread have reached 161 clients:

161*14.95 = 2406 USD / month

What is the cost for a full time Wine developer/debugger ?

Or part time... Just to ensure that patch will not break the thing...

AleRiperKilt
Posted - 2009.02.09 21:27:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: AleRiperKilt on 09/02/2009 21:34:46
I agree with CCP's decision to drop the cedega-based client but totally disagree with dropping support for a Linux client.

I would have NEVER tried this game without an officially supported linux client (why pay for some service with no chance of support?).

I knew I could run it with wine for years. Several times came across this website (usually from slashdot article) and said "cool, internet spaceships". Went to download section and saw no linux client so I left.

Never bothered to try Eve until the Linux client came out (btw this is the first and only MMORPG I have EVER played)

Now I am hooked to this game, have 3 accounts and intend to keep playing it. By dropping the linux client you are cutting out any chance for linux users that think like me from becoming customers.

All you need is a QA guy run some tests in the client under wine before you release it. If something doesn't work ask the wine devs and they will surprise you (I know one of them that plays this game and has submitted patches when your devs screw something out)

Sevarus James
Minmatar
Meridian Dynamics
Posted - 2009.02.09 21:58:00 - [59]
 

Personally I'm glad that CCP is ending the cedega client. For the last several months under a LOT of "supported" hardware, it has been an utter disaster (confirmed by CCP at fanfest as such, although the word there was that the new beta stuff rocked.)

As long as we linux users can have our little dungeon at the bottom of the forums to help each other out, and even provide some feedback to CCP regarding performance and such via wine we'll be just fine.

It has been mentioned by CCP elsewhere that they would continue as best they could to provide "smoke tests" for upcoming releases, and this is more information and more promising than what they have talked about for quite some time.

The mail sent also shows that they DO have at least some clue because they give instruction for multiple ways to run EVE under linux.

I've been supporting folks in the linux forums for quite some time, and supported the official client for as long as it was a viable solution, but even I had to dump the thing after several bug reports that WERE information rich with screenshots, descriptions and logs were filtered with "not enough information" as the filter reason.

The other thing we have to remember is that CCP never DID provide a "linux" client. The underlying game below Transgaming's "wrapper" was still dx9 and windows.

At least the wrapper most of us use now is efficient enough to play the game properly. Let us hope that this continues.

Also, please be aware the Crossover Games lists EVE-Online as OFFICIALLY supported on their website, which means they dedicate the time and effort to ensuring the game works under the crossover-wine application.

It would be nice if CCP could at least keep them/us in the loop a bit as to upcoming changes and stuff so WE could ensure the game continues to work.

EVE is just an engine to allow us access to a virtual world. Please don't lock us out.

Jat Friesch
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.02.09 22:32:00 - [60]
 

@Sevarus James

Well said. I hope you're right.


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only