open All Channels
seplocked EVE Fiction
blankseplocked Jovians and Capsules - Reasoning Discussion
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

Yuu Yuki
Posted - 2009.02.09 01:43:00 - [1]
 

I intend this to be a discussion on why Jovians gifted the other races with Capsule technology. Provided it hasnt been done before. Or simply stated by the writters. If Im saying anything that has been touched on then sorry :P I dont read through all of the lore. If there has been stories written on the topic I'd like to see em though.

Personally I believe that Jovians gave pod technology to the other races to breed them into a similar state as Jovians. It is stated quite often how Capsuleers are few and far between because of the differences between Jovians and the other races. However Capsuleers are also seperated from the "pack" and put on a higher pedestal. This makes natural selection lean in their favor. It encourages the genetic trend that makes them more able to be Capsuleers and thus encourages a genetic trend making them more like Jovians.

It sounds just like something the Jovians would do to me. It's very clever and subtle, favourites of the Jovians. Why are they encouraging the change? I think that also deserves debate. Maybe there is some flaw in their genetic coding they intend to solve that way. It could just as easily be their way of creating world peace aswell. Jovians seem too cold and calculative of people to really wage many internal wars. Most wars among Jovians I would imagine end before they begin. So this could easily be their way of creating universal peace.

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2009.02.09 07:19:00 - [2]
 

One strong possibility is the Enheduanni. They have the ability to remote control our ships; it's possible that the Jove gave us pod tech as a defence against their remote control ability. If it's true that pod tech stops the Enheduanni from remote controlling our ship then the Jove did it to help them in the war and to cut down the Enheduanni interfering in the background,.

Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
Naraka.
Posted - 2009.02.09 08:45:00 - [3]
 

Either they passed on pod technology because they want to perserve that knowledge, as the Jovian disease has made them a dying race. Or they want to protect us from making the faults they did. Or maybe we're just one big experiment to them. Maybe a mix of several or all three.

Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
Posted - 2009.02.09 10:20:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Pottsey
One strong possibility is the Enheduanni. They have the ability to remote control our ships; it's possible that the Jove gave us pod tech as a defence against their remote control ability. If it's true that pod tech stops the Enheduanni from remote controlling our ship then the Jove did it to help them in the war and to cut down the Enheduanni interfering in the background,.
Once again, our resident Enheduanni fan sees nothing but Enheduanni.

I'm sure you have a lovely source for this idea that they can remote-control ships without a pod.

Also, from discussions regarding The Book, I think they would have a much easier time influencing and controlling capsuleers and their ships than classic ones (what with cybernetic telepathy and all).

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2009.02.09 13:03:00 - [5]
 

Alexeph Stoekai “I'm sure you have a lovely source for this idea that they can remote-control ships without a pod.“
Yep I have a source it’s in the story that introduced the Enheduanni name, very clearly at that. They took over ship(s) in the story without pods and the Jove talked about it saying they had a defence against it but none of the empires do yet. (Before pods where introduced to the empire) reading between the line it sounded like the pods are the defence but its not clear.
I only assume they cannot do the same for pod ships as I don’t recall any stories with them doing it to pod ships. Though that’s not to say they cannot.

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2009.02.09 19:00:00 - [6]
 

I think the Jovians had multiple reasons, first they did it to preserve all 4 Empires. Caldari were about to lose the Battle against the Gallente but introduction of Pods turned the table. The Jovians of course knew that in time all other Empires would be able to aquire the technology, or they would simply give it to them.

It created an uneasy peace, a peace that has come to end, at the same time as the Jovian power has almost vanished.

Other reasons might be, that it is a big experiment. The Jovians developed Pod technology when they had already done much genetic engineering to themselves. Maybe they want to see which results the introduction of their advanced technology would have on the lesser developed races. A bit like handing a Neandertaler a tank, just to see what happens.

The last reason might be the search for the cure for their disease. Capsuleers do not undergo extensive training but also require a certain mindset and likely even genetic compatibility. Maybe they want to develop the Capsuleers even further, to the point where they are able to use all of the Jovian technology, but are unaffected by the disease. Creating the Jovian race anew but this time without the near fatal flaws.

I also noticed another thing. CCP removed all Jovian characters from the game. Even CCP Valar is now a Caldari, but I am certain he was a Jovian before. Essentially all Jovian characters were removed from the game.

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2009.02.09 19:20:00 - [7]
 

Not all all Jovian characters are removed. Just most.

Yuu Yuki
Posted - 2009.02.09 19:58:00 - [8]
 

Ok. The responses made me do abit of reading. I come with quotes to support. My first statement will be about the timing in which pods were given to the Caldari and it's correlation to the plot in Theodicy.

Pods were given to the Caldari briefly after the FIRST Gallente-Caldari war. From the Short Story "Jovian Wetgrave" the timeline in which Pirkotan is the first person of the Four Empires to be in a pod, "Pirkotan's father had fought in the war against the Gallentean Federation ... But the war had been over for 15 years," Thus at the time of the story Theodicy which was during the second Gallente-Caldari war, the Empires technically already had Pod technology. Pod technology was not used for many many years after being given to the Caldari. You can read the scientific article about Pods and Cloning for that tid-bit.

I know its probably annoying that I am citing supporting lore but eh :P Also, the Jovians were the ones to remote control a ship, though they said “Empire vessels—such as the Minmatar’s Rifter, for example—are not yet equipped to defend themselves from such attacks.” So it is obviously a form of Ewar not unsimilar to tracking disruptors, just much more advanced. Since the Enheduanni operate based on manipulation with no direct involvement the chance that pods were implemented as a direct counter-measure is unlikely.

There was alot in Theodicy that did make me re-evaluate my position abit however. The fact that events in that story happen after Pod technology is especially important. My reasoning behind this is that Theodicy is the first time that Jovians have taken a MAJOR role in Empire politics. It also shows that until that time the Jovians had taken a lassiez-faire attitude about the Empires. Ofcourse I would not say such a thing without supporting evidence from the story, "We cannot sit idly while they selfishly interfere with the history that is yours to decide, no matter how destructive, or how often you wish to repeat it.”

So! I think it's safe to assume that at the time they gave the pod it was for personal reasons or non-invasive reasons. I dont think it was simply for the information they recieved as it is something too potentially valuable for such a thing. In the scientific article however what they asked from the Caldari was detailed information about themselves and their past, essentially their race's "medical history". If the Jovians could observe the genetic evolution of the races, especially pod pilots, it would provide invaluable insights to their genetic coding. Perhaps even enough to reverse their Jovian Disease.

Counter-intuitive to this though would be how would they manage to collect the genetic data in its stages? For them to benefit from the genetic changes of a race moving towards their own they would need to monitor the changes. Which there has not been any lore to support that they are or arent as far as I know. I dont think its reasonable that they wanted to simply replace themselves, especially considering the history comment Grious made that I quoted earlier. In addition, encouraging a genetic trend would also be tampering with the Empire's history.

Well, I am long winded hmm? Ive provided some points and counter points to most of the comments that have come up and In my mind I dont see a clear answer as to why they did it. There are many conflicting desires and ideals about each possibility. Primarily due to when the pod was given. Sorry for boring you all :P

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2009.02.09 20:07:00 - [9]
 

There are maybe even darker reasons.

The Capsule connects the Pilot with the ship but what is not widely known is, that the connection goes in two directions.

It can be used to by the pilot to control the ship, or the ship might be able to control the pilot.

Rogue Drones absorbing a ship and then reprogramming the capsuleer.Twisted Evil

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2009.02.09 20:28:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Pottsey on 09/02/2009 20:30:16
Yuu Yuki said " Also, the Jovians were the ones to remote control a ship, though they said “Empire vessels—such as the Minmatar’s Rifter, for example—are not yet equipped to defend themselves from such attacks.”
I forgot the Jove did it as well. Around about page 39 The Order took over Viola's ship. The Jove said "We also have the technology to commandeer ships,” Grious.." which I did forget about.



Yuu Yuki said " Thus at the time of the story Theodicy which was during the second Gallente-Caldari war, the Empires technically already had Pod technology. Pod technology was not used for many many years after being given to the Caldari. You can read the scientific article about Pods and Cloning for that tid-bit."
The Caldari and Gallente war started in 23155
Theodicy and the Minmatar rebellion 23216 AD
The Jove gave pod tech around 23241
The Caldari and Gallente war ended in 23248
The current date is 23341 or 23342 I always forget which.

When Theodicy took place the date was 23216. So Theodicy was about 126 years ago a fair bit before pods which where introduced just under 100 years ago. The war between the Caldari and Gallentans ended in 23248 about 94 years ago. So pods where introduced somewhere between 100 and 94 years ago. Just to confirm the Minmatar rebellion was in 23216, Theodicy lists both the date 23216 and talks about the Minmatar rebellion taking place.

Yuu Yuki
Posted - 2009.02.09 20:41:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Yuu Yuki on 09/02/2009 20:53:17
Originally by: Pottsey

The Caldari and Gallente war started in 23155
Theodicy and the Minmatar rebellion 23216 AD
The Jove gave pod tech around 23241
The Caldari and Gallente war ended in 23248
The current date is 23341 or 23342 I always forget which.



The Scientific Article of The Capsule and The Clone in combination with The Jovian Wetgrave would disagree. "Stories are told of pod pilot heroes flying on the side of the Caldari during the twilight years of the Gallente-Caldari war," Though there might be a discrepancy. However if you base it on The Jovian Wetgrave and that scientific article it would place it before the second Gallente-Caldari war. Since one says 15 years after a Gallente-Caldari war and the other says it was used in the last part of one. They cant use a technology they dont have. It would have to mean it was after the first war but before the second. Since Piro-whatever mentions also that there is no current war.

Is the timeline you are giving including the time of peace between the Caldari and Gallente when they discovered the Amarr as still being during the war? In other words are you coallescing the first and second war together?

Editing to add something. I never said that Enheduanni couldnt. They disabled her ship and "spoke" to her. Which is different from taking control of it. So the Jove's were the ones who commandeered a ship. The Enheduanni can do it though. I wasnt arguing that. I was simply making a point that it had nothing at all to do with the people in the ship and that it was simply an advanced form of Ewar, so Capsuleer or not it is a diiference in technology level.

Ultin Harvor
Gallente
Kafka Enterprises
Posted - 2009.02.19 16:28:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Ultin Harvor on 19/02/2009 16:33:25
I was never aware that the Jovians ever gave Pod technology to the other races, only Caldari. The deal took place within 'The Jovian Wetgrave'.

The pod-fitted ships effectiveness meant that the Gallente had to create better and better drones to deal with the small and fast ships that were ripping apart their fleets during the Gallente-Caldari war.

I've always thought this because one Caldari mega-corp produces all of the pods in New Eden.

EDIT: After about a seconds reading into 'The Jovian Wetgrave' I found that the Corporation that makes all of the pods is Ishukone, as far as I'm aware they are the only ones with the Blueprints.

Barbens
Uneducated Soldiers
Dragoons.
Posted - 2009.02.22 03:33:00 - [13]
 

I would have to agree, to an extent, with the OP that the reason they gifted the technology, was so that they could make us more like them.

The reasoning behind this, might be that they want the other races to advance along the same lines as they did. If the other races were to get to a point where their make-up suddently became similar to the Jove, the jove would benefit, and possibly find a cure to their 'disease'

On the other hand, the Jove seem to be the great benevolent society of EVE. They like to introduce new things to the 'sandbox', and see what the other inhabitants do. Remember, their thirst is for knowledge, any knowledge. I dont think it was conicidence they tested the pod on a military ship. Wouldnt have been a good show in a mining barge.


BaRbEnS

Dammus
Gallente
Posted - 2009.02.22 19:09:00 - [14]
 

Why do pods use Minmatar sensors?

Abrazzar
Posted - 2009.02.22 21:16:00 - [15]
 

The Jove want to observe the effects of repeated cloning on the human brain in the hopes of reconstructing the development of the Jovian Disease so they can actually find a cure.

To ensure a constant re-cloning of capsuleers a stagnating conflict needs to be implemented. So they helped the Minmatar against the Amarr and helped the Caldari against the Gallente.

Pod technology had to be spread to all empires in order to stabilize the fronts enough for maximum conflict duration and a maximum amount of dying and re-cloning capsuleers.

The four empires are nothing but guinea pigs.


 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only