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Ancy Denaries
Posted - 2009.02.08 13:30:00 - [1]
 

Originally by: CCP Whisper
Hello,

My name is Arend Stührmann, also known as CCP Whisper, and I am the producer in charge of the project bringing EVE Online to the Mac and Linux operating systems. As you may know, we have been working in partnership with Transgaming Technologies, utilizing their Cider engine to allow EVE Online to run on the Mac OS and their Cedega engine to enable operation under Linux. This project went live in late 2007 and in that time we have seen the same slow, steady growth in the numbers of users of the Mac client that has characterized the growth of EVE Online throughout its history. However we have not seen a similar growth in the numbers using our Linux client.

It is for this reason that I am sorry to have to announce that from the 10th of March onwards CCP will no longer be officially supporting the Linux operating system. The low amount of users of the Linux client did not justify the degree of additional complexity having three operating systems imposes on our development and release schedules. There is the matter of maintaining the hardware infrastructure to facilitate the development work, spending man-hours on testing and diagnosing faults in the client as well as regression testing. While we did embark on this project with the aim of being one of the few MMOG’s on the market offering a game client for all of the major operating system architectures, we feel that the time and resources that were being spent on the Linux client would be better utilized in areas where more players would benefit from them.

I would like to thank you for your past support of our efforts to bring EVE to the Linux OS. The feedback and commitment we obtained from players like you helped both CCP and Transgaming with our attempts to improve on the quality and stability of the client. Many of us in CCP use Linux and are convinced of its merits as an operating system.

Should you wish to continue playing EVE Online under Linux there are several options available. Some of these are free and some require purchase of software. A selection of these is at the bottom of this e-mail along with basic instructions on how to use EVE Online through them. If you wish to stop playing EVE Online and want to request a refund of unused game time, please contact our billing department by filing a petition in the billing category. They will assist you in obtaining a refund for the remaining game time and closing your account.

Again, thank-you for your support,

Arend Stührmann


Guess it was expected. Now, time to make Wine work flawlessly :D

Neylan
Posted - 2009.02.08 13:39:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Neylan on 08/02/2009 13:40:39
wine is not going to help you.

without the need to take care of implementations not running with their linux client wine will have trouble running EvE with all their new goodies like ShaderModel 3.0 or whatever they are coming up with WoS.
They can push for new technology at the cost of linux compatibility. You don't need a calculator to do the math.

edit:
i am a linux only user and feel sad about the decission.

Lorinator
Posted - 2009.02.08 13:51:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: CCP Whisper
However we have not seen a similar growth in the numbers using our Linux client.


That's because the official client sucked so much everyone just used wine instead.
Sad.

Niron Werls
Ceptacemia
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2009.02.08 13:56:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Neylan
Edited by: Neylan on 08/02/2009 13:40:39
wine is not going to help you.

i am a linux only user and feel sad about the decission.


I am also linux only user, and while it was promising to have some sort of "official" support, I still ended up using wine only because it just worked better. Considering how much better overall it worked, I don't really think wine is not going to help you is a valid statement since without any official help they still ended up making eve run better than the official client ever did ( for me, your experience may differ ).

I hope the forum stays even though the cedega client will not be. It can still be useful.

I dont really have any personal feelings about this decision since I cant imagine it will change anything, even long term. There might be a short period where things do not work that well, but i expect it will be fixed quickly with wine. It always has been before.


Crimson Calis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.02.08 13:59:00 - [5]
 

Atleast now they are telling us something - a bit better then being quiet. Still, there could come a moment when EVE becomes unplayable under Wine - though the Wine community seems a bit more responcive than Cedega. Sad here also, but business is business.

Disteeler
Perkone
Posted - 2009.02.08 13:59:00 - [6]
 

Wine is way better. I just hope this forum is not closed down.

Taita Sion
Gallente
Royal Fleet Auxiliary
Posted - 2009.02.08 14:02:00 - [7]
 

I am a Linux user. Now that's out of the way.

I was over the moon when I first heard Eve was going to release a Linux client, however, personally, I don't use it. Instead I use WINE so I can run of the Premium graphics, which works very well. I now fear that by not adopting the Linux Client, I have contributed to support being dropped, and that the Eve client will move in directions which destroy Eve's Gold status with WINE.

Whilst I can understand CCP being unable to officially support Linux, I do hope they continue to consider us when developing future clients to help maintain Eve's Gold status with WINE.

Taita.

Parifactor
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.02.08 14:21:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Lorinator
Originally by: CCP Whisper
However we have not seen a similar growth in the numbers using our Linux client.


That's because the official client sucked so much everyone just used wine instead.
Sad.


Exactly.

Esme Nomarra
Posted - 2009.02.08 14:24:00 - [9]
 

I'm a Linux user, tried the so-called 'Linux client' and it was so poor that I also prefered running the Windows client via Wine instead, when I could get it running. Currently I have the so-called 'Linux client' running, after I had to do a rebuild of my PC and found I couldn't get the Windows version to install properly under Wine and didn't have time to delve into why just then.

Whilst under the current economic climate the decision may on the face of it be understandable, I am deeply saddened by CCP going with a Transgaming bodge in the first place (they're notoriously unresponsive to their customers, which is why I stopped using their service ages ago), and further, persisting with it even when it was obvious that Transgaming did not do a good job of it.

Cross-platform is the way to go, and that means using open standards - like OpenGL, rather than DirectX. If it becomes the case that EVE is no longer playable on Linux, then I will simply find another game to play, I will NOT being buying a copy of Windows again, because Microsoft have proven many times over that they cannot be relied upon to provide a stable,s ecure and easy to use product nor can they be trusted not to invade the privacy of their users. I can and have used commercial versions of Linux, and may do so again - the cost of the OS is not the issue (within reason), it's the quality of the product and the attitude of the supplier that is important to me.

So please bear in mind, CCP - if you take EVE down a route that makes it difficult to run via Wine or one of the other 'Windows on Linux' routes (aside from Cedega, of course - also no longer an option unless they pull their fingers out and improve their service), then you'll likely lose your Linux customer base altogether. You could at least try to make your Windows code as friendly as possible to being run on other OS's.

Esme (pondering whether EVE might be got to run on Reactos, when that hits beta).

Flavien Potier
Posted - 2009.02.08 14:32:00 - [10]
 

Same thing here, I was running my 3 accounts under wine since the "official" client was so bad.

No wonder why they didn't saw clients growt with the packaged linux "client".

Anyway, I cancelled all of my 3 accounts in reply to this news.

CottageCheese Discharge
Posted - 2009.02.08 14:33:00 - [11]
 

I think it'd make more sense if they simply said "We're not going to support the official client" instead of "we're not going to support Linux". Obviously their PR folks didn't read into the implications of the former.

I'd rather see them openly support Wine development, since as everyone mentions it ran 100x worse.

Zenologic
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.02.08 14:35:00 - [12]
 

i use linux.
this statement has an obvious explanation: "However we have not seen a similar growth in the numbers using our Linux client."
its because the linux client sucks and most linux users use wine instead.
disappointing.Sad

WheatGrass
Silent but Friendly
Posted - 2009.02.08 14:38:00 - [13]
 

This is a great way to dump the Cedega client -which sucked. Like the earlier posts, Wine is better. Once Cedega is out of the way let's hope that linux support will be revisited.

Aurix Lexico
Slacker Industries
The Boat Violencing Initiative
Posted - 2009.02.08 14:42:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Aurix Lexico on 08/02/2009 14:41:54
I have to admit, I started laughing when I read "and are convinced of its merits as an operating system."

Anyways, where did you get that? I've been looking for the original and haven't found it.

Jat Friesch
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.02.08 14:42:00 - [15]
 

I basically started playing EVE just because of the linux support. I had previously been playing World of Warcraft in Wine, but a recent update caused some mouse cursor problems and the devs just said, "quit using OpenGL mode. It's just for testing, not for actual playing." It sucks to be the minority and to just be ignored.

I had heard EVE had a linux client a while ago, and figured I'd give it a try. While this news is not surprising, it is saddening. Wine is an awesome piece of software, and has come such a long way since I first started using linux, but the possible problems you can experience are pretty vast and setup can be daunting.

It seems CCP probably wouldn't drop support if they knew that everything was going to work fine (or at least the same) on March 10th. Maybe I'm wrong, but I bet it won't work come the 11th.

Tola
Arta Amicitia
Ships of the Line
Posted - 2009.02.08 14:55:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: CCP Whisper

However we have not seen a similar growth in the numbers using our Linux client.


That's just because that client is crap :/
I think there are a lot of ppl running EvE on Linux, but there are not many wich are using the Cedega client.
Please keep atleast the Forum.

Katrina Bekers
Gallente
Fighters Squadron
Posted - 2009.02.08 15:00:00 - [17]
 

I guess it's just CCP acknowledging their own failtrain.

Their "official" client sucks so hard compared to the WINE+Windows client alternative, that they rightfully wanted to pull the plug on that shameful "officially supported" piece of s...oftware! Twisted Evil

They just acknowledged what mostly everyone in linuxland already knew.

Just wanted to spare money on the cold hard reality.

Vahligmarr
Minmatar
Tribal Core
Posted - 2009.02.08 15:05:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Vahligmarr on 08/02/2009 15:09:53
Edited by: Vahligmarr on 08/02/2009 15:09:25
i got the same e-mail....Shocked


for my part, i used linux client from now and then, when i was changin skills etc..... if they had the premium client for linux, i would have used it a lot more......

to stop support of this great OS is a step backward in my point of view....

i use windows only for eve now, what a shame.....Crying or Very sad

btw, most standard apple computers have crappy intel onboard graphic chips, i bet you will have really bad fps with them even on premium lite... support of the wrong OS ccp....




Gidgiddonah
Posted - 2009.02.08 15:13:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Gidgiddonah on 08/02/2009 15:13:31
Bummer. I guess it's time for me to investigate playing Eve using Wine. Hopefully it will work. I'm 100% Linux. (Microsoft software is a complete waste of money. Apple stuff is good, but too expensive.) I'll give Eve/Wine a shot and see how it works.

Grimster
Reikoku
Posted - 2009.02.08 15:18:00 - [20]
 

Nothing else to add that hasn't already been said, Cedega client was awful essentially forcing people to run Eve under Wine.

It's a real shame and I must confess I was over the moon when I heard CCP would be "developing" a linux client, a real pity they didn't choose to go natively cross-platform.

As other posters say I hope this is considered in the future.


Pivalak
Haiku Enterprises
Posted - 2009.02.08 15:43:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: CCP Whisper
However we have not seen a similar growth in the numbers using our Linux client.


It has been pointed several times already, but as you may note, the Linux client was never complete (i.e. remember about Premium being scheduled for Q1 2008?), it had multiple bugs and issues we have suffered up to this day, and we never received real support from CCP or Transgaming for the most part. Nevertheless, that didn't prevented CCP from marketing EVE Online as supporting Windows, Mac and Linux.

I understand supporting Linux may not be cost effective for CCP, and therefore they may like to focus their resources on Windows and Mac. But they should also acknowledge they haven't provided a good service for our platform either: there have been many promises during this year, which have not been met at all in the majority of cases. And, what is worst, while we could see various devs regularly posting and interacting with the Mac community on the forums, we have been fully ostracized since last summer.

Now it is no wonder the number of people using the official Linux client remained small. Even more considering that some of the alternative solutions available for running Windows software on Linux did a better job on supporting EVE Online. In any case, it is better to have a clear answer from CCP than remaining in the dark as until now.


P.D. For those interested on running EVE using Crossover Games, there is a Valentine's offer where you can get a 12 months subscription for just 27 euros.

Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
Posted - 2009.02.08 15:48:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Vahligmarr

btw, most standard apple computers have crappy intel onboard graphic chips, i bet you will have really bad fps with them even on premium lite... support of the wrong OS ccp....

New revisions of MacBook come with NVIDIA graphics on-board.

As for linux support drop - i really don't bother as didn't use official client for about a year. Wine is better atm, yep.

But bad news guys - new client (recently uploaded to singularity) and new patcher (it downloads necessary files from www instead of including them in patch file itself) crash on startup. Fun is coming :P

Personally, i'm not gonna cancel supscription.

Vahligmarr
Minmatar
Tribal Core
Posted - 2009.02.08 15:57:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Vahligmarr on 08/02/2009 15:57:51
well the "normal" macbook and the macbook pro will have a nvidia m9400, which seems a bit weak

only the high end version of mac book pro has nvidia 9600M, which seems the only card that will run eve the way it should...


Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
Posted - 2009.02.08 16:05:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Pivalak
Originally by: CCP Whisper
However we have not seen a similar growth in the numbers using our Linux client.

Now it is no wonder the number of people using the official Linux client remained small. Even more considering that some of the alternative solutions available for running Windows software on Linux did a better job on supporting EVE Online. In any case, it is better to have a clear answer from CCP than remaining in the dark as until now.

CCP Whisper chose his words carefully. You'll note they are not saying there is a drop in Linux users. Just that there is a drop in us using the official client.

So, all CCP are saying is that because we found something that actually worked without their help they don't see any reason to spend money on us.

The poor Mac guys are really suffering at the moment. Silly thing is they could have been using Wine all along same as us.


Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
Posted - 2009.02.08 16:06:00 - [25]
 

Oh, and I'm back for good this time. Skill queue for the win. :)


Blaster Fairy
Caldari
Bulgarian Mafia Squad
Sons of Tangra
Posted - 2009.02.08 16:13:00 - [26]
 

I play EVE using WINE and I think the solution here is CPP to leave current client and continue developing, but to keep a compatibility with WINE. EVE runs flawlessly under WENE 1.14 even with premium graphics so as long as CCP keep gold status for WINE it will be good.
Though it's my opinion that this is some kind of discrimination to Linux users as we choose not to use Windows but eventually will be forced to for future EVE releases which is unfair. I began to play EVE especially because CCP supported GNU/Linux so I see that my time was wasted :( Hope these events turn to good.

I suggest to start a petition where GNU/Linux (free) people will sign and will count themselves so we can prove that we're many not a few. Of course this must be done outside EVE system so there are no chance of manipulation and to be fair enough. It must be something like the linux system counting which was last year I think.

Ancy Denaries
Posted - 2009.02.08 16:14:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Aurix Lexico
Anyways, where did you get that? I've been looking for the original and haven't found it.

Got it via Email.

Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
Posted - 2009.02.08 16:19:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Ancy Denaries
Originally by: Aurix Lexico
Anyways, where did you get that? I've been looking for the original and haven't found it.

Got it via Email.

I never got the email either. Which just goes to show there is plenty of people in here that are using Linux that CCP have no clue about.

Vahligmarr
Minmatar
Tribal Core
Posted - 2009.02.08 16:22:00 - [29]
 

maybe because we (who get the mail) used the cedega official client? and wine users are counted like windows users??? Rolling Eyes

Miraqu
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.08 16:23:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Parifactor
Originally by: Lorinator
Originally by: CCP Whisper
However we have not seen a similar growth in the numbers using our Linux client.


That's because the official client sucked so much everyone just used wine instead.
Sad.


Exactly.


Nothing to add....


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