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Venduras
Posted - 2009.02.09 11:09:00 - [31]
 

If they only gank in Lonetrek, Black Rise, Citadel and Essence, just move somewhere else, beef up your tank, get aligned or for all I care, go setup your Hulk with a scram and NOS and wait for them to come to you. Plenty of things to do really.

Camilo Cienfuegos
Earned In Blood
Posted - 2009.02.09 11:18:00 - [32]
 

Stop whining, start thinking. Such gank squads are easily avoidable if you use your noggin, and no I'm not going to give you such information on a plate. What I will say though is what has been said before: Concord are not there to protect you, they are only there to provide retribution.

Aya Sin
Posted - 2009.02.09 11:44:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Onys Cissalc
Aya Sin, before trying to tell off 'piratebears' (lol?), it might be worth getting a cl00.

The ships being used for this kind of act cost around 1mil a pop. Their clones (villwrath, muad'dib and co) cost a good few dozen million each, and I don't doubt they're implanted for a few dozen mil (if not hundred mil) each while doing this as well.


You absolutly don't need imps to pop a hulk. Also, you're talking about single digit millions when a hulk has three of those. Risk vs. reward is completely off the scale here. Not sure about the status of insurances+concord (I remmeber they wanted to change this some time ago), but I think that still works too, so that's another couple of bucks worth of risk less.

Cool if they're doing this in their 70MSP chars and don't just go for easy kills, but it's not neccessary. I'm also not complaining about them doing it but rather that they can do it for pocketchange.

Erika Bronz
Gallente
The Wyld Hunt
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2009.02.09 12:05:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Erika Bronz on 09/02/2009 12:12:20
Hulks
and haulers
aren't only loveboats.


Team up !

Ratchman
Posted - 2009.02.09 13:49:00 - [35]
 

There are some people in this thread that do not help the argument. People who feel compelled to grief other players because it gives them an almost sexual thrill are not 'playing the game', they are just driving their targets away from the game. In the OP's example, the actual ambush was legitimate, and within the boundaries set by the game. However, the email they sent after is considered griefing, as it is a threat to continually harrass another player. Personally, I would just ignore this, or just send back some random barb, but I think it is a petitionable offence.

For those of you who say 'welcome to EVE': Yes, it is meant to be a harsh universe, but if you pummel your opponents continually until they are left with no option but to leave, what has this left you? An empty universe with no-one left to bully.

Piracy is a part of the game, but people must have some form of respite from it, otherwise they will abandon the game, and then you will have to do all the mining and manufacturing yourself, which is not what you want to do, is it? Ambushes: fine. Ransoming: fine. Gatecamped: fine. Sending Emails threatening to constantly gank the same player: victimisation.

There are limits as to what is acceptable behaviour. And CCP do not want this kind of bullying, because it threatens their revenue.

I don't have a problem with the mechanic of this gank squad technique, and the OP can find an alternative place to mine. However, that said, I would like to suggest a game mechanic which might help. It seems to me that pirates entering high sec in pods, but not getting any hassle until they enter a ship seems a little illogical to me. To remedy this, why don't we 'flag' the pirates when they enter high sec? Consider it a process initiated by the jumpgate that effectively places a beacon on the pod or ship, placing the pirate on the overview for everybody in that system. This then means that anyone who wants to hunt them, can warp to them like any celestial body. This electronic tagging could also be initiated should anyone initiate combat in a way that would upset concord.

I think this would still allow pirates to hunt in highsec, but allow people to hunt them as well, which is how it should be. Pirates can't really complain about this, because PVP is what they are after. They can still evade combat if they really wanted, but it would provide them with the risk that they don't know who's going to warp in on top of them when they land at a site. The only way I can see pirates objecting to this, is that it prevents them from getting 'easy' kills. It doesn't stop them PVP'ing, which is what they all claim to like to do, but it does ward them off hunting down people in high sec who cannot fight. And the pirates can mitigate this by finding the quieter high-sec systems.

Typhado3
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.02.09 14:30:00 - [36]
 

you could just send them a reply in french or something to confuse them.

GrimJahk
Posted - 2009.02.09 15:02:00 - [37]
 

Here's a thought to consider...

What if CCP added a new feature?

"Rent a Cop"

You hire "off duty" Concord ships to fly cap. the extortion was 100m a month... ok. I'm sure you'd MUCH rather pay 3mil (Per ship) for one hour of protection with X ships.

The balancing side effect to this is that the "Bodyguards" are not overpowered Battleships or even battle cruisers, and they will insta-pop any rats that attack the protected ship leaving no wreck or loot. They ONLY work in .5-.6 space.

This would become a money sink, that only extorted players would use.

Kalia Masaer
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Posted - 2009.02.09 15:50:00 - [38]
 

I have to agree that the mail does come very close to griefing, it does not quite cross the line but in know way should be encouraged.

Camilo Cienfuegos
Earned In Blood
Posted - 2009.02.09 16:43:00 - [39]
 

Quote:
Piracy is a part of the game, but people must have some form of respite from it, otherwise they will abandon the game


This is the meat of what you posted, and it's entirely false. Eve's active subscriber base and concurrent user count has only grown and for as long as my subscription has been active it's been a harsh, uncaring universe. It is for this reason that such harsh responses to idiotic topics like this one are made; we've been here a while now, we've seen all these topics before, we've made our way in eve without needing CCP to hold our hands and protect us from the nefarious types in the game and we disdain of the idea that anyone should be given such a helping hand.

Eve is not for everyone, and whilst I'm sure that the marketing department at CCP may despair at this, it's evident that the developers don't or we'd be living in a very different game right now.

Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2009.02.10 14:53:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 10/02/2009 14:55:24
Read this. Read it again. If you can prove to CCP's satisfaction that the players are griefing you, they'll take action. Otherwise (and as I suspect since they are seeking to make a profit), it's part of the game, it's a big galaxy, and you are free to take suitable action against your would-be protection racketeers.

Mahts
Posted - 2009.02.11 14:18:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Mahts on 11/02/2009 14:24:12
Edited by: Mahts on 11/02/2009 14:18:37
I think the risks should be equal to the rewards... the gankers here are using the game in an unintended method I am sure, or CCP would allow you to go into a lvl 4 with some newb ships and pwn... as for CCP ignoring this... their membership is growing because they are 1) providing safe space, 2) making the game easier to understand, 3) giving SK to beginners, 4) trying to prevent ganking in high sec. They will have to deal with this as well, or people will leave to other games... that is real life too. Take it or leave it.


edit: fixed a typo

Molock Saronen
Posted - 2009.02.11 16:56:00 - [42]
 

People ganking is always a risk and should be kept that way.

However....
If a person enters a high-sec area in a ship with a -10 standing they will be attacked.
Only because of the fact they enter in a pod are they able to enter such a area without getting attacked.

The fact that they can, after getting there, change to a ship without any consequences sounds wrong to me.
Why not preform the same check when changing ships as when entering a system.
A -10 is still able to fly through a high-sec zone in a pod. But if they board a ship there?? <-- POW.

It doesn't prevent someone with high enough standings to gank in high-sec. It however does prevent someone who has ganked from not suffering the consequences of their actions.

Want to fly around in a ship in high-sec again? Bugger off to low-sec/0.0 and start shooting rats till you standing is high enough again.

Aeo IV
Amarr
Xomic OmniCorporation
Posted - 2009.02.11 17:50:00 - [43]
 

High sec ganking is too easy, all these gankers loose is...what? sec status which means next to nothing?

When Concord ganks you, you should loose skill points related to the skills you're using to fly the ship ganked, something to the tune of one level of ship skill, one level of weapon used lost.

SnickiT
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2009.02.12 12:17:00 - [44]
 

100mil is a small price to pay for peace of mind...

Camilo Cienfuegos
Earned In Blood
Posted - 2009.02.12 12:35:00 - [45]
 

Quote:
Want to fly around in a ship in high-sec again? Bugger off to low-sec/0.0 and start shooting rats till you standing is high enough again.


Don't forget that CCP changed this mechanic fairly recently: you now lose sec status at a vastly increased rate, meaning that grinding from -10 to 0 will take you just as long as always, but getting back to -10 will take about 1/3rd of the time it used to, if not even less than that. Personally I have no real desire to enter highsec (I have logistics in place for that, so why bother?) and so this doesn't concern me, but I suspect this increase in ganking is directly related to the increased sec loss, that these individuals are attempting to find means by which they can play the game their way without having to reduce their sec status three times more frequently than they used to.

Suicide ganking should be a mechanic and personally, I don't see why pirates as low as -10 can't enter high sec space, provided they have sufficient standings with that faction navy. I mean hey, I'm -10 and I can sign up to fight for the Caldari and Amarr empires, but I can't get into their space? Poo to you with bells on then!

Typhado3
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.02.12 12:40:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Typhado3 on 12/02/2009 12:50:41
Originally by: SnickiT
100mil is a small price to pay for peace of mind...



I wouldn't trust pirates with 100 mil unless they are well known for keeping deals. I reckon an upgrade to the war dec mechanics to allow for these deals to be done properly would work well, sort of like shop keeperes paying money to the local mob boss.

Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos

Suicide ganking should be a mechanic and personally, I don't see why pirates as low as -10 can't enter high sec space, provided they have sufficient standings with that faction navy. I mean hey, I'm -10 and I can sign up to fight for the Caldari and Amarr empires, but I can't get into their space? Poo to you with bells on then!


low security status is supposed to be a punishment by concord, it's supposed to be the mechanic to make empire safe by keeping the pirates out. There are 2 ways it doesn't do that right; it doesn't keep them out (which is the current problem, they can come in pods), or pirates can disguise as/become carebears too easily (which is why they upped the sec punishment.

AshtarDJ
Filthy Scum
Scum Alliance
Posted - 2009.02.12 12:46:00 - [47]
 

Villwrath, can I have your babies?

I've blown many hulks in highsec but never thought of sending out a mail like that afterwards. Love it! (copying it ;)

Ratchman
Posted - 2009.02.12 13:14:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: SnickiT
100mil is a small price to pay for peace of mind...



Trouble with this, is that there are too many pirates that will gank someone even if they do pay up, so what incentive is there to pay?

I've known of people who been ganked regardless of paying the ransom, and I have vowed not to pay a single red ISK to anyone demanding a ransom, even if it only a million to save a battleship. I'd rather content myself knowing that I limited the pirate to one option, but not both.

I think ransoming is a perfectly legitimate tactic, but pirates have killed the effectiveness of this for themselves. You want it to work, you're going to have to start policing yourselves, strange though it may seem.

I think the email that the OP received though, does not count under legitimate tactics, as this is contacting the human being and threatening them to make the game unplayable for him. This is real-world bullying, as the person has been specifically targetted. Contacting people via the email option is crossing the line, as you are expected to deal with people as you would in real-life. You don't expect people to start mailing you with threats. I know it is role-playing, but you have to appreciate that there is a line there, and acceptable behaviour must be adhered to.

Role-playing is all about context.

SnickiT
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2009.02.12 13:40:00 - [49]
 

lol...

How is sending an eve mail crossing the line?

What is "acceptable behaviour" in an online game?

Camilo Cienfuegos
Earned In Blood
Posted - 2009.02.12 14:35:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Camilo Cienfuegos on 12/02/2009 14:36:37
Quote:
low security status is supposed to be a punishment by concord, it's supposed to be the mechanic to make empire safe by keeping the pirates out.


Then why on earth did CCP not just make Concord turn up when a blinker comes through the gate? Currently it's the faction navy that will chase you down, and this is done regardless of your standings with that navy.

It seems dumb to me, to be honest.

Quote:
There are 2 ways it doesn't do that right; it doesn't keep them out (which is the current problem, they can come in pods), or pirates can disguise as/become carebears too easily (which is why they upped the sec punishment.


They didn't make it harder to grind sec status back at all though; they simply made sec status loss for criminal offenses higher - if their goal is as you said, surely it would've been more logical to make grinding sec back harder instead and/or as well as this?

Remember as well that anti-pirates (lol) are often forced to break the law to engage a pirate who has his sec above -5, so this was in effect more of a punishment to them than it was to pirates, most of whom are rather proud of how low their sec could go.

RisenPhoenix
Shadowyn Corp.
Posted - 2009.02.12 15:32:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: GrimJahk
Here's a thought to consider...

What if CCP added a new feature?

"Rent a Cop"

You hire "off duty" Concord ships to fly cap. the extortion was 100m a month... ok. I'm sure you'd MUCH rather pay 3mil (Per ship) for one hour of protection with X ships.

The balancing side effect to this is that the "Bodyguards" are not overpowered Battleships or even battle cruisers, and they will insta-pop any rats that attack the protected ship leaving no wreck or loot. They ONLY work in .5-.6 space.

This would become a money sink, that only extorted players would use.



You are what is wrong with eve. Hire real players to guard you ****** this is an MMO not "lets play spaceships with the AI"

Bootya
Posted - 2009.02.12 17:02:00 - [52]
 

Quote:
If you reject our offer, we will add you to a buddy list folder, and we will run locator agents on you whenever we see that you are online. You will become a primary target for us first over any other random exhumers.


Ban Policy 3.b. and 7.g. (harrassment, griefplay) might apply. Contact a GM again and inquire about these in context of the quote above.

Horza T'Urell
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.02.12 19:13:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Molock Saronen
People ganking is always a risk and should be kept that way.
However....
If a person enters a high-sec area in a ship with a -10 standing they will be attacked.
Only because of the fact they enter in a pod are they able to enter such a area without getting attacked.



Ive seen the BYDI destroyer gangs entering highsec before. They dont need to fly into high sec in pods first. Their destroyers all fit inertia stabilisers which allow them to align and warp faster than it takes for the FACTION navies to spawn and engage. The faction navies Shoot first, then apply webs a second later, and it takes about 3 seconds after them locking the flashy pirates to apply scram. This means the pirates are long gone before the navies can stop them, and because system security level only applies to the concord response, the pirates can fly their ships all the way from Low sec into 0.9 - 1.0 if necessary without the NPCs catching them.

In terms of increasing the sec hit for high sec suicide ganking, dont forget these are pirates! They want that hit to get to true -10.0 quicker. The suicide ganking for them is purely a matter of money as nothing else matters, there is little risk from NPC's for a skilled destroyer gang, and even unskilled pilots can do it easily. All they need to do is bring more ships for higher sec rated systems in order to drop the target in time before concord gets them.

It's a brilliant and evil use of game mechanics, BYDI ftw.

Jarek Naumen
Beyond Divinity Inc
Beyond Virginity
Posted - 2009.02.12 19:20:00 - [54]
 

Quote:
A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making others’ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way.


I'm really poor, and I need that loot/salvage from hulks to be able to afford flying catalysts.

David Grogan
Gallente
The Motley Crew Reborn
Warped Aggression
Posted - 2009.02.12 20:11:00 - [55]
 

u could try mine in 0.0 instead.... at least these guys will be too busy looking for u in high sec to come bother u in 0.0 lol if your really worried about being found fit a cloak at the expense of 1 mining strip

Mos7Wan7ed
Gallente
Dirt-Nap Ship Yards
Posted - 2009.02.12 20:22:00 - [56]
 

would you leave doors unlocked and keys in the ignition in a shifty part of town?

i don't know how many hulks just sit in empire strip mining belts that have little to no defense on them. it's a t2 ship... protect your investment and train/fit shield mods on it or suffer the consequences.

fit shield modules to your ship and when they go to ship scan you they will see they don't have a chance and either leave or die tring. small shield extenders and passive resistance amplifiers.. balance your resistances and you'll be fine. the smart bombs will do damage, but not enough before concord arrives and destroys their ships.


Hung Wong
Blunt Force Syndicate
Posted - 2009.02.12 21:18:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Mos7Wan7ed

fit shield modules to your ship and when they go to ship scan you they will see they don't have a chance and either leave or die tring. small shield extenders and passive resistance amplifiers.. balance your resistances and you'll be fine. the smart bombs will do damage, but not enough before concord arrives and destroys their ships.




Tanked hulks are still very easy to gank with 5 destroyers.


Destroyerofyou
Posted - 2009.02.16 08:53:00 - [58]
 

I dont know these guys too well =P but they are very scary. Everyone should beware because its a problem when no one can stop them =P RUN FOR COVER HIGH SEC MINERS!

Grods
Amarr
The Lone Wolves Security
Posted - 2009.02.16 09:14:00 - [59]
 

First there was a wall of text... then.. nothing.

I think this has something to do with pvp. Lets remove PVP so everyone can play like they want!

Tabiza
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.02.16 10:07:00 - [60]
 

If your gonna post, at least do it with your main Piezo Dragon.
Let's keep everything accurate.


[08:07:03] Piezo Dragon > canelled subscription, this game is a wast of time if this loophole keeps getting used.

[08:11:19] Piezo Dragon > they used cheep ships to blow up my hulk a tech II ship that has next to no firepower for the salvage and expensive mining equipment.


Well at least now you know how we feel about Covert Ops Cloaks on transport ships in low-sec.



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