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blankseplocked Agree/Disagree: I won't use tk3 if I lose SP's when I lose a ship.
 
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Zel Nughat
Amarr
Nughat Corp

Posted - 2009.02.11 01:06:00 - [61]
 


Gartel Reiman
The Athiest Syndicate
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2009.02.11 01:27:00 - [62]
 

Disagree. If things are implemented the way they are currently believed to work, and you lose one level of a rank 1 skill that is guaranteed to be T3 subsystem-specific, then this is a really good idea.

Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
Naraka.
Posted - 2009.02.11 14:13:00 - [63]
 

Edited by: Myrhial Arkenath on 11/02/2009 14:13:18
If these skills were on a seperate training timer I would have supported it. But training skills for something I won't lose, or training skills for something I will lose...nice for bored veterans perhaps, and even then, I'm sure even they got something left to train they can keep.

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.02.12 08:43:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Marlona Sky on 12/02/2009 08:43:17
You don't want to take the chance on losing SP related to the T3 ship then don't fly one. Problem solved.

Did you even get on SiSi to test them out or did you just hear from the tourney and run straight to the forums to complain?? Rolling Eyes

Stalina
Gallente
Serious Business Incorporated
Posted - 2009.02.13 14:31:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Myrhial Arkenath
But training skills for something I won't lose, or training skills for something I will lose...


Eject - TADAAA no SP lost.

Lee Dalton
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.02.13 18:51:00 - [66]
 

Agreed.

SP should not be a commodity like ISK.

Bahs Deep
Posted - 2009.02.13 19:48:00 - [67]
 

...

Level 1 ranked skills....wah...oh noes, I blew up my ship and lost just a few days worth of training. oh boo hoos. whatever will I do? Rolling Eyes

You guys need to take a look at this from outside your tiny box that you seem so stuck in.

And no, I'm not going to humor you into WHY I'm saying this. If you can't figure it out for yourself then maybe you should go try Hello Kitty online. Or better yet...go check out Neopets. That might be more to your liking.

Triest
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.02.13 20:03:00 - [68]
 

I really hate this idea, a lot. All it serves to do is encourage use in PVE and discourage it for PVP, which is utterly not something EVE needs right now. On the off chance people do decide to risk SP while PVPing, it actually discourages skill training, since you risk more SP when you're better with the ship. Either way, it's not making the ships any more precious, and in fact, makes them less desirable to fly. Especially when large scale combat in EVE already makes losses essentially up to a coin toss of whether the game responds to your commands before you die.

Georgina Eldridge
Posted - 2009.02.13 20:26:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Georgina Eldridge on 13/02/2009 20:26:24
Originally by: Bahs Deep
...

Level 1 ranked skills....wah...oh noes, I blew up my ship and lost just a few days worth of training. oh boo hoos. whatever will I do? Rolling Eyes

You guys need to take a look at this from outside your tiny box that you seem so stuck in.

And no, I'm not going to humor you into WHY I'm saying this. If you can't figure it out for yourself then maybe you should go try Hello Kitty online. Or better yet...go check out Neopets. That might be more to your liking.



No, it's bad.

Santiago Fahahrri
Gallente
Galactic Geographic
Posted - 2009.02.13 20:43:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: Santiago Fahahrri on 13/02/2009 20:43:01
Those who don't want to risk the loss shouldn't use the ships... I don't understand the problem.

People who don't like to lose implants don't use them in combat.
People who are unwilling to lose expensive rigs don't use them in combat.
People who are unwilling to lose faction mods don't use them in combat.

Don't use them if you don't like the risk vs. reward ratio.

I plan to try one (at least) out. Probably with expensive rigs and faction mods - risk is fun.

Karrade Krise
Posted - 2009.02.13 21:02:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
Edited by: Santiago Fahahrri on 13/02/2009 20:43:01
Those who don't want to risk the loss shouldn't use the ships... I don't understand the problem.

People who don't like to lose implants don't use them in combat.
People who are unwilling to lose expensive rigs don't use them in combat.
People who are unwilling to lose faction mods don't use them in combat.

Don't use them if you don't like the risk vs. reward ratio.

I plan to try one (at least) out. Probably with expensive rigs and faction mods - risk is fun.


This. Pay close attention to this one, Class.

Lunewrath
Amarr
Posted - 2009.02.13 22:10:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Lunewrath on 13/02/2009 22:10:52
Ejecting is fail. Just complete fail as a solution for preventing SP loss imo. T3 as it is implemented is going to be for Epeen wars in Empire, and maybe to FOTM for the next Alliance Tournament. Not a regular line ship for most pvper's.

Risk vs. reward could have been handled much better tbh, see here for an idea which could have been fun, non-disruptive to skill training and yet maintain consequences for flying and losing T3 ships.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.02.13 22:19:00 - [73]
 

Your tears: delicious

Lunewrath
Amarr
Posted - 2009.02.13 22:30:00 - [74]
 

No tears here, just trashing a stupid game idea that could have been implemented in a better way.

Karrade Krise
Posted - 2009.02.13 22:41:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Lunewrath
No tears here, just trashing a stupid game idea that could have been implemented in a better way.


Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Apolluon
Gallente
No Limit Productions
Looney Toons.
Posted - 2009.02.14 00:25:00 - [76]
 

This is a bad idea, that will lead to more bad ideas, letting this get into the door will lead to more of this crap mechanic being added to the game. Its a bad idea, its bad for the game, its bad for CCP to even let this go anywhere, they need to reverse course and get this mechanic out of T3 ships right now.

I will not even consider flying a T3 ship until this mechanic is gone.

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2009.02.14 09:16:00 - [77]
 

If you dont want to lose sp if you die. EJECT or dont fly it.

van Uber
Swedish Aerospace Inc
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2009.02.14 09:31:00 - [78]
 

I could not care less if I lost a days training over a T3 ship. If anything it is the financial loss that will keep me from them (as I imagine they will be extremely expensive in the beginning).

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.02.14 10:50:00 - [79]
 

While the loss of Sp for a level 1 skill is nothing staggering, it will make training the subsystem skills at more than 3 not worth it unless the effect of training them is very large.

There are several other factors that can make the T3 ships very rare, in particular the time required to gather the materials to build one against the possible sell price.

Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade

Posted - 2009.02.14 11:41:00 - [80]
 

Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 14/02/2009 11:54:46
Supporting only because I think it's the wrong approach per se. The usual suspects are busy arrogantly whining about both sides of the risk vs reward equation, like this is some mathematical principle that they personally laid down, but I think they're missing the point.

The T3 manufacturing process will be:
Find wormhole.
Enter with enough ships to...
Kill very tough Sleeper NPCs.
Mine the new gas forms in W-space.
Hope you get out of wormhole again with loot & gas intact and not jumped by some other hunting group, and don't end up in the middle of Delve.
Reverse engineer the components to create a BPC/reaction.
Find enough BPCs and reactions to actually make a T3 ship part.
Run said reactions in a POS in low-sec.
Build T3 ship part - again, can only be done in a POS, though that can be done high-sec.
Hope that enough other people are selling the other parts that someone can actually build a ship.

I'd say the above already covers a fair old risk and time-sink. T3 ships are still being balanced so it's hard to predict how much more capable they will be at release, but the above process alone may discourage large scale manufacturing except by those large groups who really don't need more power handed to them.

Sure, it's only a rank 1 skill, and sure, you can fly a T3 ship with them at 0 if you want, but this is directly interfering with the training system of skills in a way never done before in EVE.

If, as is alleged, CCP fear that some groups in EVE have too much money, and that ISK isn't a barrier any more, perhaps they should consider how those groups got too much money in EVE, and fix that problem, rather than a quick hack to introduce an alternative penalty?

Diamaht Nevain
Gallente
Avatar Union
Posted - 2009.02.16 09:03:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: Diamaht Nevain on 16/02/2009 09:04:52
It was the lead developer at CCP that was talking during the tournament, so i'm guessing it's reliable info.

He was asked about ejecting and hinted that yes you would eliminate the skill loss but the other pilot would of course be able to take the ship if he could fly it. He stated that the skills lost would be rank 1 skills and would take 4 days or so to retrain.

A four day wait in my opinion is not that big of a deal. If the skill loss is not wanted then you can always eject. If the other pilot can't fly the ship you may have a chance to get it back. I like the new risk element and we would still have options. There are so many billionaires out there now that money really doesn't matter.

Any pirates who are reading this and don't like it are crazy. You've wanted to steal ships for years, and now you can!

Not signed (please see signature)

Stick Cult
Posted - 2009.02.16 10:24:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Stick Cult on 16/02/2009 10:24:46
Losing 1 level of a rank 1 skill, get over it. That's a few days training at most. And if that's really so upsetting, just eject before you die. You'll be much more distracted by the huge amount of ISK you just lost.

not supported

Camilo Cienfuegos
Earned In Blood
Posted - 2009.02.16 10:42:00 - [83]
 

Not supported, but quoting an important point:

Quote:
Congratulations, now you've just created a set of skills that nobody will ever train past level III (and rarely past level II) because ships die more frequently than you can replace the SP to level IV or V.

Ryuga VonRhaiden
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.02.16 12:04:00 - [84]
 


disagree.

isk is almost no more an issue to many, a little more risk brings eve closer to its origins.

Lee Dalton
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.02.16 12:48:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Ryuga VonRhaiden

disagree.

isk is almost no more an issue to many, a little more risk brings eve closer to its origins.


This might surprise you, but ISK is an issue to the majority of players.

Obviously I am not saying that everyone should be able to fly everything as they please, but I believe this is the wrong solution.

If the problem is caused by a group of players having so much ISK the loss of a T2 ship with fittings and rigs is insignificant, we need to look at *why* they are so rich and if there is a genuine issue there.

The biggest concern I have is power creep in EVE - until recently T2 fittings were the exception, not the norm. Now they are cheap enough to almost obsolete T1 modules for established characters.

sir gankalot
Posted - 2009.02.16 19:51:00 - [86]
 

Disagree. I don't think EVE needs another time sink after the learning skills. Maybe at some point in the future.


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