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blankseplocked Agree/Disagree: I won't use tk3 if I lose SP's when I lose a ship.
 
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Zurin Arctus
Posted - 2009.02.07 19:03:00 - [1]
 

For those of you that weren't watching the alliance tournament coverage, a CCP employee apparently thought we'd be excited to hear that, hey, whenever you lose a Tech 3 ship, you lose a tk3-related skill level!

I detect high levels of time-sink in this sector, Captain!

Please don't jerk us around, CCP. If you want to keep us in the game, do it by releasing engaging new content, and not by utilizing copout mechanics like this one to keep people perpetually training the same skills over and over.

Does anyone else take issue with this mechanic?

Thann Starlinbow
Minmatar
Failed Diplomacy
B A N E
Posted - 2009.02.07 19:09:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Thann Starlinbow on 07/02/2009 19:08:42
If this is true, it's a TERRIBLE mechanic.

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2009.02.07 19:11:00 - [3]
 

i'm reserving judgement till some details (hint CCP, dev blog) is released.

Ki Tarra
Ki Tech Industries
Posted - 2009.02.07 19:12:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Pattern Clarc
i'm reserving judgement till some details (hint CCP, dev blog) is released.
This!

FunzzeR
Legion of the Scottish Fold

Posted - 2009.02.07 19:13:00 - [5]
 

Utill more details are released on T3, I will have to say the losing sp mechanice is lame and not needed.

Efrim Black
Gallente
Thanatos Industries
Posted - 2009.02.07 19:14:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Efrim Black on 07/02/2009 19:17:17
Originally by: Zurin Arctus
For those of you that weren't watching the alliance tournament coverage, a CCP employee apparently thought we'd be excited to hear that, hey, whenever you lose a Tech 3 ship, you lose a tk3-related skill level!

I detect high levels of time-sink in this sector, Captain!

Please don't jerk us around, CCP. If you want to keep us in the game, do it by releasing engaging new content, and not by utilizing copout mechanics like this one to keep people perpetually training the same skills over and over.

Does anyone else take issue with this mechanic?


Provide a link to any proof that you didn't simply pull this out of your rear.

*Edit* Alright then - I totally disagree with the Mechanic. Supporting the tentative resistance to it.

Zurin Arctus
Posted - 2009.02.07 19:14:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Zurin Arctus on 07/02/2009 19:15:00
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
i'm reserving judgement till some details (hint CCP, dev blog) is released.


What's there to wait to hear? It's a cheesy timesink.

Zurin Arctus
Posted - 2009.02.07 19:14:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Efrim Black
Originally by: Zurin Arctus
For those of you that weren't watching the alliance tournament coverage, a CCP employee apparently thought we'd be excited to hear that, hey, whenever you lose a Tech 3 ship, you lose a tk3-related skill level!

I detect high levels of time-sink in this sector, Captain!

Please don't jerk us around, CCP. If you want to keep us in the game, do it by releasing engaging new content, and not by utilizing copout mechanics like this one to keep people perpetually training the same skills over and over.

Does anyone else take issue with this mechanic?


Provide a link to any proof that you didn't simply pull this out of your rear.


http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=992740

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2009.02.07 19:15:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 07/02/2009 19:15:40
Originally by: Thann Starlinbow
Edited by: Thann Starlinbow on 07/02/2009 19:08:42
If this is true, it's a TERRIBLE mechanic.


I highlighted the problem. We don't actually know anything other then, that you lose skillpoints from certain set of skills. What I would vote for is clarification on the mechanics, since I have a hard time seeing CCP adding skillsinks to a game, that already takes decades to max your skills in.

We need trustworthy info from CCP, not more speculation on the little info we have.

Zurin Arctus
Posted - 2009.02.07 19:20:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 07/02/2009 19:15:40
Originally by: Thann Starlinbow
Edited by: Thann Starlinbow on 07/02/2009 19:08:42
If this is true, it's a TERRIBLE mechanic.


I highlighted the problem. We don't actually know anything other then, that you lose skillpoints from certain set of skills. What I would vote for is clarification on the mechanics, since I have a hard time seeing CCP adding skillsinks to a game, that already takes decades to max your skills in.

We need trustworthy info from CCP, not more speculation on the little info we have.


Respectfully, you don't make any sense. You're questioning whether it's true? A CCP employee said it. He said you lose skill-levels from the tk3 related skills when you lose ships. Provided the ships don't spew isk out their exhaust ports or have sixteen high-slots and hardpoints, I'm not sure what will balance out this irritating mechanic.

chemzys
Posted - 2009.02.07 19:26:00 - [11]
 

At Fanfest iirc, they talked about a system of "Experience" for the TechIII ships, exp lost when ship destroyed/repackaged, perhaps this is it.
The ship "train" a specific skill and you lose it along with the ship.

Efrim Black
Gallente
Thanatos Industries
Posted - 2009.02.07 19:27:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Zurin Arctus
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 07/02/2009 19:15:40
Originally by: Thann Starlinbow
Edited by: Thann Starlinbow on 07/02/2009 19:08:42
If this is true, it's a TERRIBLE mechanic.


I highlighted the problem. We don't actually know anything other then, that you lose skillpoints from certain set of skills. What I would vote for is clarification on the mechanics, since I have a hard time seeing CCP adding skillsinks to a game, that already takes decades to max your skills in.

We need trustworthy info from CCP, not more speculation on the little info we have.


Respectfully, you don't make any sense. You're questioning whether it's true? A CCP employee said it. He said you lose skill-levels from the tk3 related skills when you lose ships. Provided the ships don't spew isk out their exhaust ports or have sixteen high-slots and hardpoints, I'm not sure what will balance out this irritating mechanic.


Well after this, I'm pretty sure I've had it with the entire notion of t3. They weren't even able to pump out ambulation in 2008 like they originally planned, Quantum rise was a joke, and honestly, considering the host of other fixes the game needs... Obscenely expensive t3 ships just seems silly.

I'd rather have the option to introduce basic color patterns and paint-jobs to ships before t3. x.x

Sniper Wolf18
Gallente
A Pretty Pony Princess
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2009.02.07 19:32:00 - [13]
 

DO








NOT










WANT!

Apollyonn
Caldari
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
Posted - 2009.02.07 19:33:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Apollyonn on 07/02/2009 19:35:39
The problem I see here, is that it makes no sense for us to have to lose SP for losing one of these ships. They are going to be very difficult and time intensive to get or expensive because of the time people put into them. Isn't that enough of a loss when/if you get popped? I was excited for the T3, but if I'm going to be losing my SP, then I'm not interested. However, I'm still interested to hear CCPs discussion and comments on this issue. I impatiently ( Wink ) await your dev blog on this Monday morning (hint hint...).

Edit:

Originally by: chemzys
At Fanfest iirc, they talked about a system of "Experience" for the TechIII ships, exp lost when ship destroyed/repackaged, perhaps this is it.
The ship "train" a specific skill and you lose it along with the ship.



If this is what we lose, then I can live with that. I would find it pretty neat if we gained extra Exp on our ship for each successful engagement but lose that when we lose that ship. As long as I don't lose my ability to use large guns/laucnhers/whatever module I trained a long time to train. Very Happy

Esmenet
Gallente
Posted - 2009.02.07 19:36:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Pattern Clarc
i'm reserving judgement till some details (hint CCP, dev blog) is released.


This. I just hope it wont be too late.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.02.07 19:38:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: chemzys
At Fanfest iirc, they talked about a system of "Experience" for the TechIII ships, exp lost when ship destroyed/repackaged, perhaps this is it.
The ship "train" a specific skill and you lose it along with the ship.



I recall a old spaceship game from FASA where if you were using the same ship and you scored kills with it you would "learn" the individuals ship strength and weakness, becoming capable of better redlining it for maneuverability.

If it is something like this, getting extra SP tied to the ship you are using and losing them when the ship is destroyed or repackaged, it can be reasonable.

But I want to stress the extra part, something over and above what you get from regular training.


Zurin Arctus
Posted - 2009.02.07 19:43:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: chemzys
At Fanfest iirc, they talked about a system of "Experience" for the TechIII ships, exp lost when ship destroyed/repackaged, perhaps this is it.
The ship "train" a specific skill and you lose it along with the ship.



I recall a old spaceship game from FASA where if you were using the same ship and you scored kills with it you would "learn" the individuals ship strength and weakness, becoming capable of better redlining it for maneuverability.

If it is something like this, getting extra SP tied to the ship you are using and losing them when the ship is destroyed or repackaged, it can be reasonable.

But I want to stress the extra part, something over and above what you get from regular training.




Yes. And CCP Chronitis, or whatever the hell his name is, implied that we'll have to retrain our own skills when we lose a tk3 ship.

Lame.

Shijima Nei
Caldari
Caldari Provisions

Posted - 2009.02.07 19:50:00 - [18]
 

if this is true then risk v reward is throughn out window example

a player in T3 ship enages a lets say mael mael calls backup they gank T3 ship you loose billoins of isk and SP gankers gain isk and gain the enjoyment of making someone loose SP without catchin there pod risk v reward broken as gankers will loose nothing yet gain alot

t3 ship enages a lone mael mael has no backup and looses

t3 ship pilot gains maybe 50-100 mill yet could loose sp + billions of isk

risk v rewards there for broken

CCP rethink what you are doing

o and another thing for risk v reward is missioners

they have isk to buy t3 ships they fit and buy they mission reward NO RISK!!! you carnt gank these in high sec since they will be to overpowered with concord on there side it would be like ganking a titan in high sec with concord on its side

this feature is very very bad thought through and who ever made it should be fired right now

signed for getting rid of it if it is true

Hesod Adee
Dark-Rising

Posted - 2009.02.07 20:17:00 - [19]
 

While I have seen nothing to suggest that this will happen, it is a stupid idea because it will just keep people from flying T3 ships.

I know I won't be flying them if this happens as I know they will be called primary whenever they show up in PvP because lost SP hurts more than lost ISK.

Even carebears won't fly them (assuming they can run level 4 missions) as they will be targeted for suicide ganks in high sec.

This had better be fake or a joking CCP employee.

Thargat
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.02.07 20:30:00 - [20]
 

If there's like a profficency boost the longer I pilot a specific T3 ship without loosing it. Hell yeah, I'm all for it.
If I need to train skills to pilot the ship, skills wich I lose when I get podded.... not that great but hey, it's eve.

Just need to wait and see what CCP has in storage for us.

stadshage
Caldari
Trojan Trolls
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2009.02.07 20:57:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Pattern Clarc
i'm reserving judgement till some details (hint CCP, dev blog) is released.

yea im about the same thing though anny sp lose i wil not be happy with and i wont be flying t3 ships

what i can understand in crew sp lose say your t3 ship come's with a crew wel if/when ship goes pop crew dies so you need to get a new crew

now here is also a new market option depending on how imported crew is and what type of crew your wanting to use ( not sure of type's but hell) say a carebare trains a crew and is then able to sell the crew to a other player to use in his ship that player will then get a rank 5 crew and the seller wil start to train a new rank one crew

so what im hoping is that crews wil be the same ass mod ya can buy them sell then and the t3 mod/crews you can also train them

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:11:00 - [22]
 

Open questions that need to be explained in the dev blog.

1) What happens if I eject? If you lose sp when your not piloting the ship, does that mean that the person who assembled the ship loses SP, say, if you dismantle a POS, and a number of t3 ships appear and there destroyed, can you remotely remove someone's PS? Even though there off-line?

2) Is this really endgame content? IE, no noobs aloud?

3) By adding a new risk metric, which cannot easily be compared with traditional (isk) for a hull size that generally explodes on contact with asteroids, along with components which have unmanageable, and unpredictable risk attached to there acquisition, the reward for flying them would have to be unbelievably high -

4) If this is end game content, considering your MO of spending more time on things a greater chunk of the community would be prepared to use, won't t3 in that format this be a total departure from that direction and how could you justify denying further player requested end game content any further?

Kalia Masaer
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Posted - 2009.02.07 22:08:00 - [23]
 

Really we have to wait for them to be put on singularity on monday, then we can make our decisions on whether it is a bad idea or not. It is possible ccp has made a ship that no one will fly but it is also entirely possible they have thought this out more than it may seem.

We do not know the training time on the tech 3 skills we do not even know if they are like regular skills.

I personally am going to wait until I have some solid facts before I decide if this is a bad mechanic or not.

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2009.02.07 22:27:00 - [24]
 

Remove it. Remove it NOW, fire the moron who proposed it, and forget this entire disaster ever happened.

SP loss on ship destruction is just an incredibly stupid decision. Congratulations, now you've just created a set of skills that nobody will ever train past level III (and rarely past level II) because ships die more frequently than you can replace the SP to level IV or V.

Kytanos Termek
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2009.02.07 22:42:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Kytanos Termek on 07/02/2009 22:44:08
I think what was hinted at is ship specific SP.

take for example. And this is just wild speculation. But while you own the tech 3 ship. You are doing separate "skill training" that the ship itself does. That you do at the same time as your normal skill training. effectively your ship is "training" a different set of skills. Like tech 3 gun firing 1-2-3. And if you lose the ship. You lose these "extra" skills. You don't lose your gunnery skills or the skills required to use tech 3 ships or components or any of your normal skillset. But you do lose the extra "spiff" attached directly to the ship and have to retrain it once you get a new ship. This is my guess of what would happen. I personally find it interesting if this is the case. But it ads a new risk that get's progressivly bigger as you "train" your ship more. But then again it also gives an emotion attachment to the ship. It's Your ship. You made the components, You raised it, fed it noobs, watered it. You dont want to lose it. But whats the point of having it if you never use it?

TLDR Version
It will almost certainly be a separate "set" of skills that you train at the exact same time as your normal skills. aka train 2 skills at the same time. 1 normal 1 ship specific. or something like that.

ToTheCore
Dreddit

Posted - 2009.02.08 00:57:00 - [26]
 

Supported until more information is revealed.

Hesod Adee
Dark-Rising
Posted - 2009.02.08 01:45:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Kytanos Termek
TLDR Version
It will almost certainly be a separate "set" of skills that you train at the exact same time as your normal skills. aka train 2 skills at the same time. 1 normal 1 ship specific. or something like that.


Then I'll clarify my position:

- If I have to chose between skills I should never lose or skills that I will lose when my T3 ship explodes, I will always chose the skills that I will never lose.

- If these T3 related skills are trained alongside the regular skills I will want to see the specifics before I decide.

Thorin Quinn
Caldari
Dominion Gaming
Posted - 2009.02.08 01:45:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Thorin Quinn on 08/02/2009 01:45:39
They are going to be expensive enough, without this, welcome suicide gankers dream. if T3 ships really do this, never owning one, release more engaging content rather than more time sinks.

As it stands, Mission running is arduous and boring, mining is just annoying, maybe focus on more dynamic stuff in these areas other then go here and kill 40 ships over and over.

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2009.02.08 03:48:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Thann Starlinbow
Edited by: Thann Starlinbow on 07/02/2009 19:08:42
If this is true, it's a TERRIBLE mechanic.


While I would like to see "official" confirmation of this, I'm not going to waste any time saying this game mechanic s u x - Bung! I don't care how you "justify it" within lore or whatever... LOOSING a trained skill level with the loss of a ship is as redolent as rotting cheese...

AKTwisted Evil

Santiago Fahahrri
Gallente
Galactic Geographic
Posted - 2009.02.08 04:40:00 - [30]
 

Blah blah blah - wait and see what it actually is before lighting the torches ya damn unruly mob! :)


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