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CCP Fear

Posted - 2009.02.04 13:28:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Hugh Ruka
Originally by: CCP Fear
Just to answer some common questions here;

The last skill has to start within 24 hours, so you could have short skills up until that time and then add a level V skill at the end which will finish.

Skill training continues through downtime.

Somebody asked said it should be in-game... Yes of course, isn't that obvious?

Yes, this is for Apocrypha and will be on SiSi.

Also, We are working on getting on getting an in-game screenshot for you into the devblog, hopefully today.

Also keep in mind that we are adding functionality to it, and you can definetly help us out by commenting on how you would use it. I'll answer more later on.




will the skill q work DURIGN downtime ? if one skill ends 30 minutes in downtime and another starts, will I find the next skill training after downtime ends ?


As I said; it works through downtime. So yes. If your skill training completes during downtime, then it will finish and continue on to the next.

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:29:00 - [122]
 

冬の熊
スキル忘れて
楽に寝る

fuyu no kuma / sukiru wasurete / raku ni neru

bear of the winter
forgetting his skills
sleeps without a care

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:29:00 - [123]
 

Excellent news indeed.


Slade

CCP Fear

Posted - 2009.02.04 13:29:00 - [124]
 

Skills can be added to multiple levels. I see a few of you are asking about that.

I could thus add level 1, 2, 3 etc. and it will train all those levels.

Tmarte
Caldari
Slackers Incorporated
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:32:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: CCP Fear
Skills can be added to multiple levels. I see a few of you are asking about that.

I could thus add level 1, 2, 3 etc. and it will train all those levels.


Badass

Ahro Thariori
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:32:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: CCP Fear
Skills can be added to multiple levels. I see a few of you are asking about that.

I could thus add level 1, 2, 3 etc. and it will train all those levels.


nice Very Happy

Omber Zombie
Gallente
Frontier Technologies
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:33:00 - [127]
 

ok keeping this in mind:

Quote:
If you train a skill the old fashioned way (by activating a skill as you do now without the queue window) it will still be listed in the queue as the top skill; the skill you are training now. If you donīt add a follow-up skill then youīd have to come back when that skill is finished. You can still start training skills from your normal character sheet without entering the queue.


does that mean if I add a 40 day skill to my queue, start it training, and then switch to another skill, that other skill goes to the top of the queue and the old skill is next in line? Or does it just replace the skill in the queue entirely?

Camuran
Gallente
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:33:00 - [128]
 

Very nice, and Rakshasa Taisab: Awesome Haiku!

DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes
Chain of Chaos
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:35:00 - [129]
 

Typical, we finally get a skill queue and it solves a non-existent problem. The real issue is prolonged afk (businesstrip/holidays), not juggling short timed skills.

Juggling short time skills is a motivator to log in and play and even stay logged in.

Short timer skills i.e. 6 hour skills can easily be trained during 1-3 playing sessions, sure they'll take a couple of days but it's not like you are loosing training time. It's just that the actual progress is slower then advertised due to time management. But was/is it an issue? No not really. Nice to have it changed? Sure.

Now I'm going on a holiday and will be gone for 27 days and I don't have any skills left that I want/need, but also no option to continue training so I'll end up loosing out on 2 weeks worth of training unless I'm giving my login credentials to someone else in order to change my training (EULA breach).

Also what gives, who is CCP to decide if my real life doesn't permit me to play for a prolonged period of time and I choose to keep my accounts open and pay for them in order to keep training going. Don't they want my money? Really strange decission from a business standpoint of view.

Ok then give us the option to change our skill through a webinterface, ow wait then I wouldnt be playing the game either, so thats a no-no as well?

Whats the difference if I can't play for a pro-longed period of time and decide to keep my accounts open to train and only log in to change skills versus giving us the option to actually manage that situation (webinterface/skillqueue).

Bottomline the whole login to change skills makes you play logic is seriously flawed; if I choose not to play but pay and train I do so. My skilltraining never brought me back from an afk. Why not simply accomedate this community demand by giving the community the tools to manage that situation.

In the end it's better for the game to have a backbone of sponsoring characters financing a better gameworld for the active players that aren't even using any serversided resources/support/bandwidth. Thus getting additional funds for creating/enhancing an environment that more people choose to participate in and will grow and evolve both the game and playerbase?

IMHO this is a typical case of have a cookie and shutup but what it effectively does is removing a login motivator. I.e. I'm more motivated to login and play to complete that 3 hour skill that I have trained 2 hours on in order to move on or be able to use something. Whereas when I'm training a 23 dag skill I couldnt care about logging in from a skillchange perspective.

Really there is no harm in being able to queue longskills since it doesnt change anything (if a player has choosen just to skilltrain he/she still will), however being able to queue all those short skills does make it a lot easier to say meh forget about eve for today my skills are going anyway, i'll just check back tomorrow.

Syekuda
Hell's Revenge
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:38:00 - [130]
 

Edited by: Syekuda on 04/02/2009 13:47:15
2 things:

1. I came each time I read the dev blog
2. Is there a popup, warning or an alarm that will say if its impossible to start X skill because it doesn't start in 24h ?

Regarding the skills with the certificates, sure thats a good thing but will you be able to train up to elite cause if thats the case, some or all skills (depending on implants and skills in the learning tree) can take more than 24h ? So I guess that will be an exception since its a predefined list of skills ?

Neovenator
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:38:00 - [131]
 

My 1st thought was : FI NA LLY.
Then i read the Article and found that 24h thing.
My next thought was : USE LESS.

That Skillqueue 24 thing is nonsense for me.

Why?

I am working for a big corporation that sends me all across Germany. I have to sleep in several Hotels during the month. Some of em have Internet, some not. Some of em are able to receive UMTS, some not. Meaning: Most of my time i am cut off the Internet, to login or even switch my Skills *yawn*.

As you see, i am wasting most of my paid Time beeing cut off the Game. Ghosttraining was something that gave me something back while i was offline without a GTC. So i never thought about it. Since that got removed i was hoping for a Skillqueue to atleast manage it to skill stuff during the time i am not able to login the net.

But like it is now it's something for training nubbins-skills.

Well after the GTC price raise and Missile nerf, i was expecting something really useful but all i will get is yet another kick into my balls.

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:39:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: Salpad
One problem with linking skill queue to the certificates system, in an automated way, is that some of the certificates suck.

For instance, according to the certificate system, I'm quite poor at missiles. Why? Because I haven't trained Heavy Assault Missiles at all (nor Torpedoes).

That's just stupid...


That is just great Razz

Because it is some drawback you have to pay when using the queue!

Eve is all about risk and reward, at least someone said so. And the reward of the certifacte-queue skilling is obvious, while the drawback is that you maybe learn some skills which you do not need right now (or at all). Sounds perfect to me. If you want individual skilling then don't use the queue *G*


Originally by: CCP Fear
Somebody said it should be in-game... Yes of course, isn't that obvious?


Maybe that was me Razz What I meant with 'in-game' was that the current skill system with skillsystems and all is a bit artificial and the background stories have some trouble to explain this. The skillpoints do not 'fit' well into the universe and the whole immersion imho. A skillqueue out of nothing would fit even less and break immersion even more. Look at research slots for example, they fit perfectly well into Eve and do not break immersion, actually they increase it even.

So, make the queue interactive with skills necessary to use. Make it like a 'real' tool for which you have to pay if you want to use it. Make it reactive such that skilltraining will be affected a bit: slower training maybe, or each new skill in the queue would need 10 minutes loading time before it can start training or whatever. There are so many possibilities!

Go for the stars and get it all! Wink

ju4n1ta
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:39:00 - [133]
 

Will this queue be able to "fetch" skillbook from eithr hangar or ship cargo and start queued skill? or do you have to "insert skillbook in the head" to queue it later?

Amerilia
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:40:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: Kuolematon
Bah, humbuk!

Where was this 5 years ago when I needed? Now I have 77m SP and all my skills takes eons to finish.. so tbfh don't do this! Make others suffer same way as I had to for over months of lost training time!!! Evil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very Mad

Typical EVE egoismus..

Xantor Bludberry
Amarr
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:41:00 - [135]
 

Oh!! At last!! Mans, this is your coolest changing. I have a lots of short skills. But I thinks about number "3". I think this is the magic number. Make skill queues for 3 day or 72 hour, not 1 day - 24 hour. Just a bit of magic...

Schalac
Caldari
Apocalypse Reign
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:42:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: DrAtomic
Typical, we finally get a skill queue and it solves a non-existent problem. The real issue is prolonged afk (businesstrip/holidays), not juggling short timed skills.

Juggling short time skills is a motivator to log in and play and even stay logged in.

Short timer skills i.e. 6 hour skills can easily be trained during 1-3 playing sessions, sure they'll take a couple of days but it's not like you are loosing training time. It's just that the actual progress is slower then advertised due to time management. But was/is it an issue? No not really. Nice to have it changed? Sure.

Now I'm going on a holiday and will be gone for 27 days and I don't have any skills left that I want/need, but also no option to continue training so I'll end up loosing out on 2 weeks worth of training unless I'm giving my login credentials to someone else in order to change my training (EULA breach).

Also what gives, who is CCP to decide if my real life doesn't permit me to play for a prolonged period of time and I choose to keep my accounts open and pay for them in order to keep training going. Don't they want my money? Really strange decission from a business standpoint of view.

Ok then give us the option to change our skill through a webinterface, ow wait then I wouldnt be playing the game either, so thats a no-no as well?

Whats the difference if I can't play for a pro-longed period of time and decide to keep my accounts open to train and only log in to change skills versus giving us the option to actually manage that situation (webinterface/skillqueue).

Bottomline the whole login to change skills makes you play logic is seriously flawed; if I choose not to play but pay and train I do so. My skilltraining never brought me back from an afk. Why not simply accomedate this community demand by giving the community the tools to manage that situation.

In the end it's better for the game to have a backbone of sponsoring characters financing a better gameworld for the active players that aren't even using any serversided resources/support/bandwidth. Thus getting additional funds for creating/enhancing an environment that more people choose to participate in and will grow and evolve both the game and playerbase?

IMHO this is a typical case of have a cookie and shutup but what it effectively does is removing a login motivator. I.e. I'm more motivated to login and play to complete that 3 hour skill that I have trained 2 hours on in order to move on or be able to use something. Whereas when I'm training a 23 dag skill I couldnt care about logging in from a skillchange perspective.

Really there is no harm in being able to queue longskills since it doesnt change anything (if a player has choosen just to skilltrain he/she still will), however being able to queue all those short skills does make it a lot easier to say meh forget about eve for today my skills are going anyway, i'll just check back tomorrow.
This.

Cromzor
Caldari
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:43:00 - [137]
 

I would like longer than 24 hours. 48 or 72 would be much better since it covers a weekend.

Jons Squire
Suddenly Ninjas
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:45:00 - [138]
 

Questions regarding skill books:

If I want to queue a new skill where do I need to have the skill book?

If in station - can it be in a storage container or a non-active ship?
If in space - can it be in a storage container?

Pliauga
Gallente
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:46:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: CCP Fear
Skills can be added to multiple levels. I see a few of you are asking about that.

I could thus add level 1, 2, 3 etc. and it will train all those levels.


Very Happy Yay Very Happy
Thank you, no more questions.

Ka Jolo
The Tuskers
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:48:00 - [140]
 

First, to all you saying this is useless to veteran players: not really. I can see the benefit of adding Command Ships V to the queue before going to bed, so I don't have to worry about it the next day when Battleship V finishes while I'm at work. This limited skill queue is truly welcome, as far as it goes.

Here is my suggestion: Grant each account 10-30 extra days to use throughout the year--vacations, business trips, hospital stays, finals week, whatever. We can all click on "add 24 hours to queue" some limited number of times per year.

DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes
Chain of Chaos
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:48:00 - [141]
 

Edited by: DrAtomic on 04/02/2009 13:51:49
Originally by: Cromzor
I would like longer than 24 hours. 48 or 72 would be much better since it covers a weekend.


Not really an issue since you can queue a long skill at the end of the queue. It's basicly only a lvl1 and lvl2 training tool. I.e. you add up to 24 hour worth of fast trainingskills and then a long training skill at the end of the queue.

Dani Leone
Gallente
Positively Idle
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:50:00 - [142]
 

I think this is great news, but really only a start.

I want you to consider a longer que, much longer in fact.

Whilst I can see reasons for not doing this, I don't think they are compelling now that ghost training has been removed.

Don't get me wrong, I think that being able to set training for a 24 hour period is truly excellent and will be very helpful.

It is this sort of thinking that I am worried about:

Quote:
While itīs cool that you can advance your character when you are offline, we did worry that if we introduced a skill queue some players might just set a queue for a year and become less active in EVE. Thatīs not what a massively multiplayer ONLINE game is about. EVE is a social game and we want you exposed to other players so you can start making legends out of you or corporation and strive for domination. A long abstinence from EVE would ruin this for us.


Firstly this is a non sequitor, there is not one reason at all to consider that many players might decide to become anti social simply because they can set a large raft of skills in a que.
More likely but equaly not certain, is that players who are already intending on taking a sabbatical from New Eden would be more likely to return (and to remain subscribed) if their character had advanced along during their absence.

There are quite a few players for whom a long abstinence may be totally unavoidable.
Those in the military, in particular, who might go for months at a time without being able to log in. These people are no worse off now than before, but wouldnt it be nice to allow them something better? So that they can keep up with their comrades who have the luxury of being able to log in every day or so? As it stands, they might as well cancel their account and re-enable when they return.

Also I don't think that alt farming, one of the other most often quoted concerns, would be cost effective.

If everyone could do it, the prices would drop to at or below the ISK cost for GTC/Plex and effectively cost more to train than the farmer could hope to profitably sell for.
Removing Ghost training in effect removed the hidden subsidy that farmers could make use of to farm characters at below the real cost that full time players could.

In an ideal world, I would want to be able to plan my training in Eve-mon and upload several plans to Eve, then switch between them as it suited me. This kind of flexibility would, I think, increase customer retention rather than threaten it.

In the mean time though, thanks! I hope to make good use of the 24 hour que Very Happy

gordon861
Minmatar
PROGENITOR CORPORATION
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:50:00 - [143]
 

About time CCP, thanks, but 24hrs is much too short.

It made sense whilst Ghost Training was available to stop people setting a long set of skills and then jsut stopping paying for the game for 6 months to skill up.

But you removed Ghost Training so this is no longer a problem.

Why not allow you to set skills for as long as your subscription is paid up for ?
Or at the very least 7-days or 1-month ?

Also a couple of questions.
1. Will the skill queue work whilst you are ingame and auto change skills, or does being logged in disable the queue ?
2. Will you be able to set an alt on your account to start training a skill as soon as your main finishes their queue, if it's within the 24hrs ?

And finally, when are you going to get the game to warn us that our subscription is about to run out ?
All it would take is an ingame mail from Concord to say that your clone contract will be revoked in 7-days etc.

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:50:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: DrAtomic
Not really an issue since you can queue a long skill at the end of the queue. It's basicly only a lvl1 and lvl2 training tool.

And a 'I don't want to wake up in the middle of the night' tool.

Niedar
Genos Occidere
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:50:00 - [145]
 

Edited by: Niedar on 04/02/2009 13:52:33
Thanks but mostly a waste of time, 24 hours is not what is needed. We pay for subscription time and are not able to ghost train anymore, I see no reason why you don't want to allow us to train skills while we don't have access to the game, even though we are paying for it..

Schalac
Caldari
Apocalypse Reign
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:54:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Niedar
Edited by: Niedar on 04/02/2009 13:52:33
Thanks but mostly a waste of time, 24 hours is not what is needed. We pay for subscription time and are not able to ghost train anymore, I see no reason why you don't want to allow us to train skills while we don't have access to the game, even though we are paying for it..
This is how you breach the gap between the vets and the M10 newbs.

Dark Soldat
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:57:00 - [147]
 

Dont make them mad with whines...theyll remove even the little precious bits we got.
i support this idea and i want to be part of the fan club.

DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes
Chain of Chaos
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:57:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
And a 'I don't want to wake up in the middle of the night' tool.


That's an argument I have always judged to be an argument for the debats sake only. Did you really set your alarmclock to change a skill or did you simply set another skill to pass the night and then set the shorter on again in order to finish it. I'm betting 99% of the players do the latter. Sure we all set a skill to finish 1 hour before we'd normally have to get up and actually moved our alarmclock backwards an hour but did you really go to bed at 10 and set your alarm at 3 to change your skill when you didnt have to wake up till 7?

Jordan Musgrat
Convergent
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:58:00 - [149]
 

Edited by: Jordan Musgrat on 04/02/2009 13:58:45
Just to expand on this a little: All a 24 hour skill queue does is to offset what we currently do by 24 hours. For small skills when you always can be at your PC, daily, it's great, yes. But it doesn't help anyone who needs to take a week long vacation. Yes, I can set a level 5 skill after 24 hours of small ones, but isn't that why we wanted a queue? So we didn't always have to set level 5 skills that we may or may not want to train at any given time?

24 hours means that when I go on vacation for 7 days, nothing really changes. I still need a long skill that will take up 6. CCP, nobody will look at a week long queue and say "obviously, I have no reason to play now that CCP has given me a 7 day buffer." Maybe if you had people paying for a year and setting a year's worth of skills that would be a little ******ed. But 7 days is completely reasonable, and will make almost everyone happy. In the end, that's why you're making this game, that's why you're giving us a queue. To make us happy. Just do it.

edit: r.etard is a filtered word?

Kaahles
Deliverers of Pain
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:58:00 - [150]
 

Edited by: Kaahles on 04/02/2009 14:06:07
Just got a little idea about the skill planing feature for the future. Got no idea if it had been suggested in this form before I can't read all the comments at the moment.

But I saw a suggestion of making it possible to export/import .emp (EVEMon skill plans). I found it a nice little idea but making an import/export feature of skill plans via xml would be even more awsome since xml is a very common thing for such operations and many applications work with it. Even EVEMon itself can export xml skillplans (not sure about the import thingy) and it shouldn't be that hard for the developers to make it compatible with an official skilplan format provided in xml.

Some may ask why. Well... I just like to play around with such stuff and use it in different kinds of applications Cool

EDIT: or just add a new API page for that one YARRRR!!


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