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Sashman Cole
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:04:00 - [91]
 

Any kind of skill training queue is worth having, especially when you're stuck at work and have a bunch of skills you could get out of the way during an average working day. I think this will be especially helpful for new players and those starting a new ALT. I can understand CCP's limit to 24 hours and am happy to take that as a start and work out how useful it is. I can imagine higher SP characters finding this of less use than low SP characters.

A lot of new players are following the certificate system and do find it useful. It would be of great assistance to new players if the certifications are more clearly described and their application to a current character highlighted. Linking them to a skill queue would be invaluable when starting out.


innocent alt
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:04:00 - [92]
 

If the CSM made this feature becoming a part of EVE even one minute earlier then it has justified its existence.

Down with the tyranny of Evemon and Outlook! Thanks, CCP! Very Happy


Innocent Alt

Ahro Thariori
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:04:00 - [93]
 

Great news CCP, thx alot. Laughing This singlehandedly beats WHs! Twisted Evil It's even more than I have ever asked for.

Now, dont feed the trolls.

Fionnbharr
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:05:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Margot Fortain
Realy dont see how 24hrs is such a problem.

This new feature is to avoid all the pesky micromanagement required because a skills finishing when your asleep or at work or etc.

Its not meant to cover going on holiday, cba logging in. If you need such time away then leave a longer skill on.


Indeed, exactly what I thought when I read the blog. Thanks CCP, this is a very welcome addition. Pure awesomesauce!

Brzhk
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:07:00 - [95]
 

YAY \o/ Thanks to all who makes that possible !



Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:07:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Nova Fox
CCP could be evil and add a new skill that boosts it by 24 hrs per level :P.



I hope they do that. I'd train such a skill to level 4 without hesitation.

Fritz Ionar
Minmatar
LifeLine Solutions
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:09:00 - [97]
 

Edited by: Fritz Ionar on 04/02/2009 13:09:24
[Edit - Ah, to slow]

How about a new skill, "Skill queue management", it lets you extend the queue by 24h per level Laughing

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:09:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Quick question of this highly awaited feature:

If you have a 23 day skill training, does the 24 hour rule apply to the skills that come after that in the queue?

Or can you only set a skill queue that is ALL together 24 hours?


The queue is only available for the NEXT 24 hours. If you have a skill that takes 24 hours and 1 minute you cannot use to queue up another skill after that one.


Sorry to say, but the current version of the queue is nonsense - especially the reason to limit the queue to 24 hours.

You are afraid that people won't log on any more if they do not have skills to change? Well, if the ONLY reason for them to log on, then they will just do that: logging on, changing skills and logging off.

Give a REAL queue. With functionality and interaction.

Arrow Heck, if you want! Give us a basic queue with 1 day capacity and then give skills so that we can extend the queue to a couple more days.

Arrow Let us train certificats without even ever need to look at skills. Give the ability to say 'I want this certificate up to basic level'.

And MOST IMPORTANT: make the queue IN-GAME! With skills to use it. With money to pay for the usage and with ...

... REWARD and RISK! Idea

Let the player decide if they want to use the queue and have an advantage this way, but also give some disadvantages at the same time.


  • Why not in-game skills to increase the capacity of the queue so that it can hold more than 24 hours? A skills that gives additional 24 hours each level.

  • Why not make the player pay isk for the installation of skills/certificates in the queue?

  • Why not make the queued-skilltraining a bit slower than unqueued? This way those players who actively manage skills will be rewarded for their hassle and those who are lazy Razz can use the skill at some costs.



Really, I am quite unsatisfied with the current features of the queue. But at least there is some work going on finally Very Happy

Ahro Thariori
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:09:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Sashman Cole
Any kind of skill training queue is worth having, especially when you're stuck at work and have a bunch of skills you could get out of the way during an average working day. I think this will be especially helpful for new players and those starting a new ALT. I can understand CCP's limit to 24 hours and am happy to take that as a start and work out how useful it is. I can imagine higher SP characters finding this of less use than low SP characters.


Any kind of skill training queue is worth having even for higher SP characters. As of the next expansion you don't have to be online the very instant your skill finishes. That's useful even if all you do is train skills >10d.


Dregek
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:11:00 - [100]
 

I can understand where ccp is coming from but 24hrs just does make sense , in fact its downright useless in some ways.

I have friends who play who are members of the armed forces and when on deployment they can log on at best of times once a week and at worst 6 months, they lose out on that six months worth of training.

That's around 6mil sp, maybe add a website function that allows you to change skills on the website.

while I understand why you want people logging in, but logging in for 30sec changing a skill and logging off is pointless.

In all fairness - an account with owner absent and unable to login is still paying ccp the money that keeps the server going, just as i pay and log in every day.

jst my 0.2isk, im ready to be flame grilled

Ahro Thariori
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:12:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie
Sorry to say, but the current version of the queue is nonsense - especially the reason to limit the queue to 24 hours.


But even with this queue you now have a 24h-period to log-in and feed the queue. You dont have to be online the very instant the skill finishes.

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:13:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Goumindong

Eh. So long as you log in within 24 hours of when that skill ends you can add to your queue. This makes changing skills efficiently no longer "log in at this point" but "log in at some point within a day".

Its plenty


It does not address the unexpected loss of Internet connection, which is what happened to me for over a week in November last year (yeah, I now hate my ISP. Loss of Internet for 8-9 days is not supposed to be able to happen ever). Most painful, since my skill finished training about 24 hours into that week.

With EVE's client being so heavy, you can't just hop around installing it on other people's computers, let alone school computers or library computers.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:13:00 - [103]
 

Only 24 hours before last skill in queue starts ?
Well... an acceptable compromise, I guess Twisted Evil

Trojanman190
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:15:00 - [104]
 

Good grief its about damn time for something like this. Just last night I stay up till 1:30 AM to get a skill that would have resulted in my losing a ton of training time as the skill would have changed while I was at work. This queue is a fantastic idea and can't be implemented soon enough.

Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Eclats de verre
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:16:00 - [105]
 

Hmmm, this would have avoided me waiting until 3 am on monday...

The good part is :
-Eve will let people sleep in peace.
-I can buy skills and put all their level 1s to train and not open my char sheet more than once, meaning not in the middle of a pvp op.

The bad part is :
-24h? Sounds helpful but still short. Longer time looks more reasonable. I'll explain after.
-Would people connect less? I would say no, when we have time to play, we come and play, when we don't have time, we may start the client and do nothing... And the skill queue won't say hi to my corpmates instead of me!

Why is 24h short?
-People that work 'too much' : They would play only on week-ends, then, it would need something to stack more skills.
-People that travel a lot for work : Mainly same.
-From the number of connected players stats, you know that some people only play on week-ends.
=> Have the queue long enough to have the shortest level 5 trained + the remaining time of a week. This way, people won't stack too many skills, but they can just have proper queue for when they can't come.
This means a 3-4 days queue that people can always end with the shortest level 5 skill (3-4 days with top implants, learnings and attributes) for a total of one week. This also allows for quite high rank level 4s to be put in the queue not being last.

The questions
-If we can add a certificate, will there be something to show it came from a certificate?
-Same for a module.
-Same if I clicked train in the character sheet.
-If I manually start a skill over 24 hours, are all the other skills kicked off the queue?
-Will this be in Apocrypha?

PS : Want Haikus from players?

Datsun Achura
Perkone
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:17:00 - [106]
 

At last! This is great news

ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:18:00 - [107]
 

not a bad way to implement it.

will at least make life more easy when starting a new char and having to train 100 skills in a day

CCP Fear

Posted - 2009.02.04 13:20:00 - [108]
 

Just to answer some common questions here;

The last skill has to start within 24 hours, so you could have short skills up until that time and then add a level V skill at the end which will finish.

Skill training continues through downtime.

Somebody asked said it should be in-game... Yes of course, isn't that obvious?

Yes, this is for Apocrypha and will be on SiSi.

Also, We are working on getting on getting an in-game screenshot for you into the devblog, hopefully today.

Also keep in mind that we are adding functionality to it, and you can definetly help us out by commenting on how you would use it. I'll answer more later on.


Koyama Ise
Caldari
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:22:00 - [109]
 

So essentially I can rest peacfully after DT because even if I am an idiot and forget to change my skill I probably set one before hand in a que, also I can trains lots of little skills in extended down time. I can't begin to say how awesome this is...

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:22:00 - [110]
 

One problem with linking skill queuen to the certificates system, in an automated way, is that some of the certificates suck.

For instance, according to the certificate system, I'm quite poor at missiles. Why? Because I haven't trained Heavy Assault Missiles at all (nor Torpedoes).

That's just stupid. I'm fairly good at using long-range missiles, and also at using rockets. I have most support skillz at level 4 or 5, and the remainder at 3, the only exceptions being HAMs and torps, since I cannot see the point i training for stupidly short-range weapons.

Thus the certificates system is misleading, and my hunch is that it isn't only misleading in this case, but in a lot of other cases.


Now, why is that a problem if the certificates are linked to skil queueing in an automated way? Because it seems to me that if this linking happens, then there might be big problems with changing the certificates later on. If nothing else, it will confuse new players. "I used to have Advanced Missile Skills, but now I no longer have that? What's wrong? Is this a bug???".

Doing the link will be a fine thing, but only after the certificates have been improved noticably.

Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:23:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Dregek
I can understand where ccp is coming from but 24hrs just does make sense , in fact its downright useless in some ways.

I have friends who play who are members of the armed forces and when on deployment they can log on at best of times once a week and at worst 6 months, they lose out on that six months worth of training.

That's around 6mil sp, maybe add a website function that allows you to change skills on the website.

while I understand why you want people logging in, but logging in for 30sec changing a skill and logging off is pointless.

In all fairness - an account with owner absent and unable to login is still paying ccp the money that keeps the server going, just as i pay and log in every day.

jst my 0.2isk, im ready to be flame grilled


exactly my thoughts ...

CCP is basicaly throwing an old dry and rotten bone at the players. It seems to me that CCP got so much used to releasing pre-nerfed features that they don't know better.

Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:24:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: CCP Fear
Just to answer some common questions here;

The last skill has to start within 24 hours, so you could have short skills up until that time and then add a level V skill at the end which will finish.

Skill training continues through downtime.

Somebody asked said it should be in-game... Yes of course, isn't that obvious?

Yes, this is for Apocrypha and will be on SiSi.

Also, We are working on getting on getting an in-game screenshot for you into the devblog, hopefully today.

Also keep in mind that we are adding functionality to it, and you can definetly help us out by commenting on how you would use it. I'll answer more later on.




will the skill q work DURIGN downtime ? if one skill ends 30 minutes in downtime and another starts, will I find the next skill training after downtime ends ?

Creat Posudol
Gallente
Eve Dragons
Imperial Crimson Legion
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:25:00 - [113]
 

This is just wonderful, thank you so much! :D

I do have one question though: Will you be able to queue the same skill more than once?
What I mean, assuming I am currently training 'Target Painting' to level 1, can I queue up the training of it to level 2, 3 and 4 (assuming they all start within 24 hours)?

and again... THANK YOU Razz

Tor Anasa
Caldari
UK Corp
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:25:00 - [114]
 

Problem i see here is the skill queue being near useless to vetran players because how many skills can a vetran player fit in a days training.

You would have to login within a 24hrs period to set the queue and even then if your like me you would only be able to set 1 more skill to train because most last more than 24hrs.

No real point in the 50 skill queue limit. tbh 5 would have done

just extend the 24hrs to a week and reduce the max number of skills in a queue.




The Beekeeper
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:25:00 - [115]
 

Finally!

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:26:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: CCP Fear
I'll answer more later on.



A few techical questions:

1. Can you queue up several levels of the same skill, say Caldari Frigate 2, Caldari Frigate 3, Caldari Frigate 4?

(I'm assuming yes, but it would be nice to hear it from a developer)

2. What about skill books you haven't absorbed yet, because you haven't met the prereqs, but the prereqs are part of the queue. Will the queue system auto-absorb such skill books, once their skillz are triggered by the queue, provided the skill book is where the character is?

Personally, I like the idea of being able to "absorb" a skill book even if you don't meet the prerequisites. It simplifies things, letting me fly around with any skill at zero skill points, but unable to train it.

The Beekeeper
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:27:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Tor Anasa
Problem i see here is the skill queue being near useless to vetran players because how many skills can a vetran player fit in a days training.

You would have to login within a 24hrs period to set the queue and even then if your like me you would only be able to set 1 more skill to train because most last more than 24hrs.

No real point in the 50 skill queue limit. tbh 5 would have done

just extend the 24hrs to a week and reduce the max number of skills in a queue.






it vies you the ability so that as long as you log in once a day, you will never have no skill training.

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:27:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Tor Anasa
Problem i see here is the skill queue being near useless to vetran players because how many skills can a vetran player fit in a days training.



You don't want new players to get good thing that we didn't get when we were new players?

Schalac
Caldari
Apocalypse Reign
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:27:00 - [119]
 

While I like the idea of a skill cue, I dislike the idea of making it time based. The things I would use a skill cue for are when I am unable to log into EVE due to life or military obligations that would make playing impossible. At the same time I love the ability to set a bunch of low time skills and then go to sleep and have them all at 1-3 when I wake up. This would only work for a small amount of skill training times though as the short skills are such a small amount of actual training time in EVE.

What I would like to see is options. 50 skills max for a 24 hour period, or 3-4 skills that take weeks to train. I would love the ability to set 4 rank 2-3 skills to train to 5 for those times that I go out into the field for a month or more where it is impossible to log into EVE. I'm sure there are others that feel the same way and now that ghost training is gone I don't see why this should be a problem as long as the account is active and payed for.

Please CCP listen to me and make it available for us to do this.

Ahro Thariori
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:28:00 - [120]
 

@dev:

could you please design the UI in such a way, that I can add <skill> Level I, Level II, Level III (and in many cases) Level IV to the queue as well? It's within the 24h/50skills limits you mentioned, but it might still not be possible in the UI if not implemented in the right way.

Could you look into that?

Thx,

Ahro


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