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Che22a
Minmatar
Social Outcast's
Posted - 2009.02.27 02:36:00 - [661]
 

Edited by: Che22a on 27/02/2009 02:40:16
Why fix something thats not broken -_-

However, if this is a feature that is to be implemented..
I'm of the opinion that the 24hour rule is a great compromise.
As to everyone who disagrees:

this is not a game specifically made to cater to your specific lifestyle, silly. It turns out other people play too :O

Eisbrecker
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.02.27 15:28:00 - [662]
 

Originally by: Che22a
Edited by: Che22a on 27/02/2009 02:40:16
Why fix something thats not broken -_-

However, if this is a feature that is to be implemented..
I'm of the opinion that the 24hour rule is a great compromise.
As to everyone who disagrees:

this is not a game specifically made to cater to your specific lifestyle, silly. It turns out other people play too :O


How ironic is it that you put it that way...are they not catering to a lifestyle by not giving us the choice of queueing skills? Right now the game favors players with the "lifestyle" of no job, who can login any time to switch out a skill, or play for hours on end. Well, I'm sorry I don't have the luxury. And since I pay $14 a month just like you shouldn't I have the same freedom? If they made skill queuing available then it would be exactly the same for people like you, but add the freedom for someone like me to further my skills without having to jump on the game every day.

I've notice a lot of players in EVE seem to have the ability to play 6-8 hours a day like most of my corp mates living a carefree life of EVE, sleep and more EVE, but there are plenty others like myself who have work, family, and other hobbies but still like to participate in a game like EVE.

And that's the biggest part of your argument I don't understand, how is this feature (even if unrestricted by the 24-hour limit) affect your experience in EVE? Does making me login to change my skills every so often change the game for you? if so, how?

Bottom line, if players are inactive and simply want to go for years without playing, that is there choice because they're not gonna be active in the game anyhow. The beauty of un-restricted queueing is that these people might actually continue paying a subscription in the hopes of some day logging in and having all the skills they want...and so who cares!!! It's their money, CCP gets more revenue, you get to keep getting your updates...everyone wins. The only restriction that needs to be implemented is for skills to pause once subscriptions run out. That way nobody is getting anything for free.

So tell me again? Why is a 24-hour time limit a good compromise? I see un-restricted skill queueing as beneficial to all.

Dakry helios
Posted - 2009.02.28 18:38:00 - [663]
 

Originally by: Eisbrecker
Originally by: Che22a
Edited by: Che22a on 27/02/2009 02:40:16
Why fix something thats not broken -_-

However, if this is a feature that is to be implemented..
I'm of the opinion that the 24hour rule is a great compromise.
As to everyone who disagrees:

this is not a game specifically made to cater to your specific lifestyle, silly. It turns out other people play too :O


How ironic is it that you put it that way...are they not catering to a lifestyle by not giving us the choice of queueing skills? Right now the game favors players with the "lifestyle" of no job, who can login any time to switch out a skill, or play for hours on end. Well, I'm sorry I don't have the luxury. And since I pay $14 a month just like you shouldn't I have the same freedom? If they made skill queuing available then it would be exactly the same for people like you, but add the freedom for someone like me to further my skills without having to jump on the game every day.

I've notice a lot of players in EVE seem to have the ability to play 6-8 hours a day like most of my corp mates living a carefree life of EVE, sleep and more EVE, but there are plenty others like myself who have work, family, and other hobbies but still like to participate in a game like EVE.

And that's the biggest part of your argument I don't understand, how is this feature (even if unrestricted by the 24-hour limit) affect your experience in EVE? Does making me login to change my skills every so often change the game for you? if so, how?

Bottom line, if players are inactive and simply want to go for years without playing, that is there choice because they're not gonna be active in the game anyhow. The beauty of un-restricted queueing is that these people might actually continue paying a subscription in the hopes of some day logging in and having all the skills they want...and so who cares!!! It's their money, CCP gets more revenue, you get to keep getting your updates...everyone wins. The only restriction that needs to be implemented is for skills to pause once subscriptions run out. That way nobody is getting anything for free.

So tell me again? Why is a 24-hour time limit a good compromise? I see un-restricted skill queueing as beneficial to all.


Ok here goes. I have been playing for several years now so I have skills that require me to leave them training for months at a time and thus a skill queue thats unrestricted would make my life that much sweeter however that then means I have to remember when the date it finally finishes is and when I come back I don't know what the history, I dont know the newer community and now my character is above my experience as a player thus I'm now in a worse position than when I started.

Agreed people like you who work, omgzz what a shame you can't be arsed to get on between your working shifts, how terrible... ...now you just have to plan a little more carefully. I'm a student in college, I live many miles from the college and thus spend 4hours+ on a bus every day. I'm going to uni next year and yet I aren't worried about it. I have managed, sometimes I have lost time but that is my own carelessness. Many other players are fine also so why should it be different for you? We manage!

I agree the 24 hours is a nice bonus, yes ccp are getting the money but the eve community, market and similar is losing out by inactive players who come back with huge egos thinking they rule because of their characters that they have no experience with. The 24 hours thing I think is great, it could have been 16 hours or something but 24 hours means I can train a skill queue at 7 and know I will be home in time to set a new one.

My only complaint is, they took their time and come on csm had little to do with it, its been discussed for an eternity, its just theres little else to do now at last ^^

...But thanks for doing it, saves alot of hassle and means I don't need to worry at college.

Dak's

Aerieth
Posted - 2009.03.01 22:08:00 - [664]
 

Ok I have to say when I first read skill queue I was scared, yes scared that I could queue up skills for a year then I read the 24 hour limit and was OVERJOYED!

First the skill idea NEVER says anything about helping you out with your holidays it is not there to fix that issue, you all just wish it was.

Alot of complaints are how EVE has to make you log in to play, well I am the perfect example right here. I am ADD and I have never played a game longer than a month. I am going on 6 months now and I am really really amazed at myself for that. Yes a large part is how massive EVE is and how I never really run out of things to do, but there is also the fact that I have to keep on my skills and this keeps EVE fresh in my mind. If I could queue up a month or a year worth of skills I would slowly forget about EVE and this is not what I want.

I can understand all you that go on long excursions and lose skill training, well thats a part of life and CCP doesn't want to address it and I am completely satisfied with the queue system that's being implemented. I lose out on large portions of skill training too but I don't wish there was a way to not have to play EVE to be good at EVE.

The skill queue is there to make EVE's skills more convenient. You no longer have to log in RIGHT when you skill finishes to change it, you can log on within 24 hours of your 7d skill finishing and queue up your next skill and let the queue handle it. This allows me to dictate when I log on to change my skills. I can log on at the same time every day and even though the skills aren't finishing at that time I won't lose a minute of training. That's what the queue is made for.

People saying you only play on weekends, sorry but if you don't have time to log on once for a couple of minutes every day to edit your queue then what are you doing playing now, you don't even have the ability to decide WHEN you log in right now so this queue is still helpful for you.

In short the skill queue is here to allow you to decide when you log on to play and to prevent you from having to set alarms for 4am in the morning. If you don't have the ability to log on once a day and you don't have the long skills to take up that extra time, then you lose training time just like you ALWAYS did. So this addition is in no way useless, it's just useless for doing what its not supposed to do, and just like I would no sooner eat my soup with a fork I would no sooner attempt to use this proposed queue idea to help my vacation planning.

Thank you
Aerieth

Lemon Song
Posted - 2009.03.02 00:20:00 - [665]
 

Edited by: Lemon Song on 02/03/2009 00:21:32
You people saying it's a compromise are so completely and utterly full of crap. It's good for new players. It's completely useless for older players, and it utterly ignores the one group of players who really need a skill qeue. It's not a compromise for anyone. (Revamp the idea so it's useful for more than one group of players if you want something to call a compromise.) It ceases to amaze me how some people will say anything if they think it sounds good and supports the argument for what they see as their own best interest, even though they know they're spewing absolutely baseless crap with no shread of truth to it. (Since you probably haven't figured it out yet, I'm calling you liars.)

BTW, a punk 15 year old calling us 20 and 30-somethings pimply 13 year olds is kind of a joke isn't it?


anomalousresult
Posted - 2009.03.02 11:55:00 - [666]
 

I don't think it's completely useless for older players. Even if all your skills are 7days+ it means that when you're within 24 hours of finishing a skill you can queue another to start after this one has finished so you don't have a load of rank 5 level 5s finishing piecemeal.

One feature which I'm not sure if it's been looked at is the ability to queue a skill book. Say you train the prereq's in your queue I want to load the skill book into the queue so it starts, will I be able to do that?

Minabunny
Posted - 2009.03.02 23:21:00 - [667]
 

This skill Q is utterly worthless unless you are a new player. This 24 hour limit is a joke.

marks denten
Posted - 2009.03.03 03:17:00 - [668]
 

Yes the 24 hours is a joke, most players over a year dont have skills that are under 24 hours, make it so that you can do upto 50 skills within 24 hours, or 2 or 3 skills in queue without the 24 hours. this would alow for people to have a week off for vacation. This would alow others such as myself (a truck driver) who spend 5 to 6 days without seeing a computer the ability to change skills.

This would make my life alot easer since im taking skills i dont want just so i can have a skill training. Then spend the day or two I have off trying to get 3 skills finished or 1 skill close enough to finishing that maybe next time I have a day or two it might finish.

I think what would be even better is to increase the 24 hours to a week, or even for each 24 hours over the first 24 hours it lowers the number of skills you can put in the queue by 10%(rounded down). So for 5 day of training you could queue only 15 skills, 10 days 3 skills. And have a mimum of 2 skills in queue. (the one training and the next skill up)

Takezo Kojiro
Posted - 2009.03.03 13:09:00 - [669]
 

this might be a silly question or even asked/answered before, but once the skill que has been implemented and a skill finishes and another is due to start during dt will it happen during dt or once the server is back up, just asking

tak

yonpytr
Amarr
Posted - 2009.03.04 08:27:00 - [670]
 

Good to see implemented something i suggested 2 years ago. :)
Originally by: yonpytr
I would make skills queue but only if they last less than 24 hours, once you excede the 24 hours you can't continue to add skills to the queue. sucks to connect 1 or 2 hours a day and put a 5 hours skill and wait until the next day to change skills.



Linkage 2007-03-07

Eisbrecker
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.03.04 18:45:00 - [671]
 

Quote:
Agreed people like you who work, omgzz what a shame you can't be arsed to get on between your working shifts, how terrible... ...now you just have to plan a little more carefully. I'm a student in college, I live many miles from the college and thus spend 4hours+ on a bus every day. I'm going to uni next year and yet I aren't worried about it. I have managed, sometimes I have lost time but that is my own carelessness. Many other players are fine also so why should it be different for you? We manage! - Dak


"I'm a student in college"...that pretty much sums it up right there. Why don't you make sure you have a real job, mortgage, and actually have to pay for your own lifestyle before you argue this point with someone that does.

Look the down and dirty about this is it is a paid service, it is not a job that I have been hired to do. In that respect I should never have to work my schedule around a game.

It's one thing if it's a 6 hour raid dungeon your running to get that piece of uber loot just because you want it, but with EVE the skill system is the basic progression of your character and should not be restricted by making anyone login to switch it out based on an in-game mechanism.

Other games require you to actually play to "level" up, the good on this is that if you wanted to you could level up a faster or slower pace than others. The bad is that while your not playing your character does not progress.

With EVE you cannot change the rate at which your character trains by running missions or accomplishing goals, it rely's only on time. The benefit of this system would be to advance without having to play. Hence my argument. Only CCP does not make it convienent with a queue system until now.

Sure, I appreciate that they are adding this feature but why add a limit that simply makes no sense redering this feature somewhat less that what it should be.


yakks
The Hull Miners Union
Gentlemen's Club
Posted - 2009.03.06 04:31:00 - [672]
 

I think that the skill queue is made of win sauce!!

Will this queue recognize skills on other characters on the same account?

For example, I have character 1 set to finish lvl 1 and 2 of skill x and want character 2 to start training lvl 1 and 2 of skill y and after that want character 3 to start lvl 5 of skill z.

Can this happen? If not that would be an awesome addition for a future patch/expansion.

Max Essen
Gallente
Bison Industrial Inc
Posted - 2009.03.07 15:58:00 - [673]
 

OK, my input turn now.
I have 3 paying accounts, all over a year old.
I am an adult (50 yo) that travels up to 14 days at a time for work.

So, basically although I do appreciate the Skill Queue, the 24 hour queue limit is just not practicle in my case. I can see where it is a nice tool for the new players.

If you must have a time limit to queuing, make it usefull to a broader class of player ... like maybe a 7 or 10 day queue.

Hya Bam
Minmatar
It's Hammer Time
Posted - 2009.03.07 22:34:00 - [674]
 

OK, I'm a little confused at what everyone is complaining about.

People are saying that the skill queue is not long enough, but if you had it any longer, people wouldn't log on as much. And it's not like you HAVE to log on every 24 hours; you can still add skills to the end that take days to learn, like level five cruisers or something.

Plus, now you also have a 24 hour window to log on and add more skills. You don't have to change skills RIGHT when your last skill finishes. As long as you log on within 24 hours of your long skill ending, you can add more skills and not lose any training time.

This adds a LOT of flexibility to the current system, and doesn't impose any limitations on it. Repeat, if you are going on vacation, train a level five skill, or basically do what you would do normally for any extended leave. You also get a whole day to log in and set the next skill, rather than having to be on the nose, or interrupting the skill early.

In other news:Laughing YES, OMG11!!!11CCP WeLovesyou7!!Thx!ByeKissesHUgs

Agent Unknown
Caldari
Posted - 2009.03.08 05:50:00 - [675]
 

Originally by: Hya Bam
OK, I'm a little confused at what everyone is complaining about.

People are saying that the skill queue is not long enough, but if you had it any longer, people wouldn't log on as much. And it's not like you HAVE to log on every 24 hours; you can still add skills to the end that take days to learn, like level five cruisers or something.

Plus, now you also have a 24 hour window to log on and add more skills. You don't have to change skills RIGHT when your last skill finishes. As long as you log on within 24 hours of your long skill ending, you can add more skills and not lose any training time.

This adds a LOT of flexibility to the current system, and doesn't impose any limitations on it. Repeat, if you are going on vacation, train a level five skill, or basically do what you would do normally for any extended leave. You also get a whole day to log in and set the next skill, rather than having to be on the nose, or interrupting the skill early.

In other news:Laughing YES, OMG11!!!11CCP WeLovesyou7!!Thx!ByeKissesHUgs


This. This will make it so much easier to nail those short skills....especially as a new player Very Happy

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2009.03.08 11:31:00 - [676]
 

CCP has a very special talent.

They have great ideas and a lot of talent. But once they create a potentially great feature, they somehow manage to screw it up at the same time, to make it near worthless.

There are a lot of examples in EVE, like Booster Production and Meta Drones, to name only two examples. But the idea to limit the Skill Queue to 24H is the most stupid of all, because it makes it really useless for older player who simply do not have useful short Skills to train.

Ok, I managed to live without Queue for more then 3 Years, but only one Request CCP. Give us the Option to completely remove the Queue from our Character Sheet, so that we do not have to look at the sad failure of Game Design, everytime we change a Skill. Thanks.

Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
Posted - 2009.03.08 11:41:00 - [677]
 

Originally by: Takezo Kojiro
... and another is due to start during dt will it happen during dt or once the server is back up

I believe even now, without the queue, those calculations may not be live. Ie: Only gets processed when the game server, or external API, makes a request for it.

Unlikely to be any different with the queue in place.


Lemon Song
Posted - 2009.03.08 22:04:00 - [678]
 

I still don't understand the point of "making people log on more". If I'm going to log on to play, I log on and play. If I'm logging on to change a skill, I'm on for maybe 30 seconds. It doesn't make me log on and do anything other than start training a new skill. I don't even say hi to my corp. I log on, make a few clicks, and log off. I know a lot of other people who do the same.

Maybe over the course of more than 200,000 accounts, or whatever they're up to now, all those 30 second to 2 min logons add up to some useful boost to a statistic that someone somewhere can use as a measure of their own success to molify the financial backer. Who knows. There has to be some reason we're unaware of for this small chunk of stupidity.

Neftaran
Posted - 2009.03.09 16:38:00 - [679]
 

24 hour limit = this function is worthless

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.03.09 17:54:00 - [680]
 

Way to go, CCP. Very much needed and appreciated. The 24 hour que is a nice starting place.

Perhaps the future will show a need for an adjustment to make the que longer, but this is a very nice starting point.

Best regards,
Windjammer

Eisbrecker
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.03.09 19:21:00 - [681]
 

Look I don't want skill queueing so I can go on vacation or try and train up a character to sell it on ebay (which I'm sure is the main reason they added the 24 hour limit).

What I want to do is figure out the quickest way to get to where I want to be in game, set it once and forget about it, because honestly, I'd rather be out there making money, Fighting or whatever and worrying about when the next PVP event is, not when my learning lvl 5 finishes.

Skill "switching" is another one of those EVE game mechanics I could do without honestly. I do it because I have to, but constantly having to check the progress of a skill in training has been rather inconvienent and down-right annoying part of EVE for me.

I even got the damn capsuleer app on my iphone so I don't waste any time not training a skill ,I have to sit and think, what do I need to do next, should I train for the ship or the weapon systems...blah blah.

Don't get me wrong I'm glad they are "trying" to meet us half way but as I've stated in various long posts in this thread it simply dosen't do it.

I think it rather pretentious for CCP and their fan-boys to tell me I should just be happy with what they give me...well again I'm the customer and they are the service provider, I'm not asking for free service but I am asking they don't make me run my life around the game.

Ratklif
Posted - 2009.03.09 19:42:00 - [682]
 

First of all I'd like to apoligize if this question was already asked but I didn't feel like reading 23 pages to find out.

Can you queue up a skill that hasn't been leared to lvl 1 yet if you have the book or does it have to be at lvl 1 at least?

Bluebear8
DOUBLE IDENTITY
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2009.03.09 19:54:00 - [683]
 

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.

Righteous Deeds
Posted - 2009.03.10 01:06:00 - [684]
 

24 HOURS?!

I can't believe I just read this. Why are you doing this halfway?

I often have to leave my home for a week to more than 2 months at a time. What does 24 hours do for me other than inspire me to suspend my accounts unless I need to train a 2-month skill?

Guys, c'mon. This doesn't even make economic sense. If you're going to do it, do it all the way.

Raigir
Frontier Explorer's League
Posted - 2009.03.10 02:25:00 - [685]
 

Just 2 questions:

Will the queue start up the next skill properly if a skill completes itself during downtime?

Even further on that (probably next expansion after apocrypha), will it start the next skill properly after a skill completes during a major expansion update?


If the answer is yes I would feel so much more confortable using it.Smile

gargars
Posted - 2009.03.10 17:45:00 - [686]
 

While I applaud the addition of the skill queue, I have to agree with the majority here in that it will be somewhat quite useful to noobs, but much less so for us 'old folk' as we have very few skills that will train in less than 24 hours. Why not aid EVERYONE and set the limit to say, 2 weeks?

The reason given, that people might set skills and not actually play the game, is utter rubbish. If someone doesn't want to play until they have high skills, forcing them to log in to simply set skills is hardly going to make them play a lot. I mean it's not like they will log on, set their next skill and then say 'Hey since I am on I am going to play for 6 hours!!!!'.

The queue thing is a great idea, but watering it down so much that it only really helps a segement of the Eve community, is pretty lame - sorry. I seriously hope this will be revisited because frankly it show a lack of caring about your LONG TIME customers... who you should give priority to in my mind.

kofty
Gallente
German Dynamics
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2009.03.10 17:50:00 - [687]
 

Brilliant. Thanks.

calidai
Posted - 2009.03.10 21:30:00 - [688]
 

I think the skill queues will be better if you can queue up multiple character.Idea
Char x puts 3 skills 5hrs in queue then char y puts skills that start when char x skills have finished.
Still can only have one character training at a time but can queue them up for multiple characters.

Trent McRent
Posted - 2009.03.10 21:33:00 - [689]
 

One of the things I have noticed whit the skill que is that if you add a skill that you are training the last prerequisite to you get a message that says: To learn that skill requires having already learned the following skills: "Skill name". If I only have one hour to go on the last skill for that shouldn't I be able to add the next skill to the que? That was for me one of the things I was hoping for when I heard that there was a skill que coming. Now I still have to log on to the server and add the skill anyway.

Lucas Derios
Posted - 2009.03.10 21:50:00 - [690]
 

lol do all you people have evry skill in the game to level 5 ? lol train some otehr carrear and stop moaining about making the game easier for you.

The game is all about the new players and why should they not have an extra boost in order to compete with people who have been playing the game for 4-5 years.


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