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Pedro Montana
Posted - 2009.02.04 19:48:00 - [361]

YES, OMG11!!!11CCP WeLovesyou7!!Thx!ByeKissesHUgs

If I am ever in iceland I will buy you all
kæstur hákar

Stry Chnine
Posted - 2009.02.04 19:49:00 - [362]


Some thoughts: Don't make it longer than 24 hours! Or well... maybe 36... no... 24 is ok! The skilling-while-not-online might be great to limit the gap between the hyperactive and the alltime-family-vacation guys, but there should be limits. For those annoying lvl1 skills that have to be learned sooner or later, and the times one should sleep but is waiting for a skill to finish... perfect! Makes you concentrate on the other parts of the game.

As for vacations... the already mentioned holiday-budget sounds like a great idea. Make the characters build up time to add to the queue. Not much... something around 5% of all trained time should be perfectly fine. Is of no use for trial accounts (even with a 30 day trial, that would be about one and a half day), but would make 3 weeks a year for the rest, an upper limit may aid in preventing abuse. And hey... one could make it trainable to 10% or whatever... get holidays from your corp... great for immersion. :D

Ki Tarra
Ki Tech Industries
Posted - 2009.02.04 19:50:00 - [363]

Edited by: Ki Tarra on 04/02/2009 19:52:58
Originally by: CCP Fear
Originally by: Ki Tarra
Originally by: CCP Fear
We will be implementing the possibility to drag skills from the hangar or cargo or wherever, you will however have to be able to train it manually to do this. (I.e. meet the requirements)
As a suggestion, allow people to move skills from their cargo/hanger to their head even if they don't meet the requirements. They won't be able to train it. It would just sit in their skill list with zero skill points until they meet the requirements, but that would solve any problems with queuing up skills that have inter-dependent requirements.

Otherwise, awesome stuff.

This was discussed, but ATM this is on the back burner due to technical reasons. But I'll get a discussion going. Who knows what these programming wizards can do given more time. But it probably will not happen with Apocrypha.
If you say this would be a big deal, then I obviously need to take your word for it.

The main problem I could see is that the queue must be able to handle exceptions where someone queues up skills in an order that does not statisfy the requirements. ie trying to train Command Ships before finishing Battlecruisers V.

However, the skill queue must already be able to deal with that type of an exception. The skill queue should not allow a player to resume training of Command Ships if Battlecruisers V has been lost due to pod death, including a pod death that happened after the queue was setup.

The only remaining hold up would be if skills have an effect when trained to level 0 that they did not have when untrained. To my knowledge there is no such effect.

However, if you do impliment a feature along these lines, I agree that you should do it right the first time, and avoid needing to come back and redo it latter.

Thanks for taking a look at this.

Posted - 2009.02.04 19:51:00 - [364]

Interesting moderation going on in here...

Leumas Kharzim
Intaki Armaments
Posted - 2009.02.04 19:52:00 - [365]

Edited by: Leumas Kharzim on 04/02/2009 19:52:35
Love this. This will be a HUGE help for me, as I have inconsistent access to the computer.

As several people have suggested, I would like to see a 48 hour queue. That would take care of all those 1d 18h skills I have sitting around and give me a little more flexibility. I am unable to get to the computer except for every 3-4 days.

RU Sirius
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.02.04 19:54:00 - [366]

Excellent news. Sounds perfect but the holiday problem could be handled by introducing a phone app so where there was no access or no laptop, skill changes could be done from a phone. That would be true perfection.

Jessika Nelle
Posted - 2009.02.04 19:59:00 - [367]

Queue is fail. 24 hours is not enough. A period of one week or longer is necessary for those who don't spend every day in EVE.

Lucas Tigh
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.02.04 20:09:00 - [368]

Edited by: Lucas Tigh on 04/02/2009 20:12:14
Originally by: Jessika Nelle
Queue is fail. 24 hours is not enough. A period of one week or longer is necessary for those who don't spend every day in EVE.
To echo about 9,000 posts above me...

You fail at reading. :) It lets you que up any skill that will start in the next 24 hours. So you have a bunch of low level skills qued up that, say, add up to a total of 22 hours and 15 minutes (this is an arbitrary number that I pulled out of my hat). You can still add a nice, long 28 day level 5 (or something) to the end of the que, as that skill will start within the next 24 hours. The feature is a huge improvement on the current system.

I don't understand what all the whiners are having an issue with. If you hate the que so much, how can you stand the current system?
Originally by: Xaen
Now if we could just get that UI fixed...

Edit: But yes, thank you CCP. It may not be perfect for everyone, but at least EVEmon can stop making skills starting in downtime red. \o/

Wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey edit:
Originally by: Ron Bacardi
Edited by: Ron Bacardi on 04/02/2009 20:10:37
Originally by: Jessika Nelle
Queue is fail. 24 hours is not enough. A period of one week or longer is necessary for those who don't spend every day in EVE.

jesus fracking christ. Give people an inch and their going to want the whole bloody mile.

Thanks CCP! Very Happy

Ron Bacardi
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.02.04 20:10:00 - [369]

Edited by: Ron Bacardi on 04/02/2009 20:10:37
Originally by: Jessika Nelle
Queue is fail. 24 hours is not enough. A period of one week or longer is necessary for those who don't spend every day in EVE.

jesus fracking christ. Give people an inch and their going to want the whole bloody mile.

Thanks CCP! Very Happy

Mire Stoude
The Undesirables
Posted - 2009.02.04 20:13:00 - [370]

Edited by: Mire Stoude on 04/02/2009 20:14:29
Ninja Edit

Krystal Demishy
Posted - 2009.02.04 20:15:00 - [371]

All my skills require no less the 2 days to complete, can i enter these skills into the queue? (Getting them skilled only for 24h btw, ofc).

Else, It's pretty useless.

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.02.04 20:17:00 - [372]

This is nothing short of 100% Win Sause!!

24 hr queue is perfect.

Its a real shame about those people complaining about this new feature already. Those people would still complain about a perma queue. Rolling Eyes

Anyways, very nice job CCP. Very Happy

Cataclysm Enterprises
Posted - 2009.02.04 20:21:00 - [373]

As this seems to confuse a lot of people:

You can enter skills into the queue that start within the next 24 hours.

You can enter skills into the queue that finish within the next 24 hours.

Really, it isn't that hard.

Baka Lakadaka
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.02.04 20:30:00 - [374]

It looks great. I'm very happy to see this being implemented.

One thing that I do notice though is the 24 hour limit is a bit restrictive. I'm often away for a few days or a week at a time for business, sometimes I go away on vacation for 3 or 4 weeks. Murphy's law dictates that my level 5 skill I've been training for the last few weeks will finish at around the middle of my trip - probably about 3 days in. So I can either stop that skill training and restart it when I get home, or let it finish and lose a couple of days before starting the next. I can do this now, it won't change with the skill queue having a 24 hour limit.

Can I suggest that the queue be allowed to do 2 things:
1) train as many skills as you like as long as they start within 24 hours OR
2) allow you to start a second skill, but only one, anytime.

This second option will cover off the business trip/holiday scenario nicely by allowing us to continue training a long skill, complete it and move on to the next, but not allow people to just train skills forever without logging in.

Octavio Santillian
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2009.02.04 20:33:00 - [375]

Edited by: Octavio Santillian on 04/02/2009 20:35:11
I applaud this effort, but I find the whole “some players might just set a queue for a year and become less active in EVE” argument for avoiding a full blown queue nonsensical and somewhat dictatorial.

I find it nonsensical because there are relatively few cases where a character can indeed queue up too many skills at once. Though an established character could queue up a bunch of high rank level 5 skills and create a queue that was year long (or more), in the majority of cases a character must still acquire and ‘read’ skill books. As such, a queue alone will not enable one to automate a character factory or anything of the sort. Moreover, why does CCP assume that people who do not want to actively play will do anything other than log, change a skill, and log out? Dose the act of changing a skill constitute ONLINE play?

In regard to being dictatorial…well…we are the customers and we pay to play Eve. If I have an actively funded account and have not broken the EULA, I find it presumptuous that CCP should demand that I play on any schedule other than one of my choosing.

Again, I applaud any action taken toward a viable skill queue, but a twenty-four hour queue does nothing for those who might take a vacation, go on military duty, go to the hospital, etc.

All that aside, I'd rather this than nothing, and it will be a great benefit to the player base.

Posted - 2009.02.04 20:35:00 - [376]

I don't normally wet myself, but this is a good reason to do so!Shocked

All we need now is something to play with on SISI!!

Bring it CCP - and thanks

Brian Kith
Elite Underworld Special Forces
OWN Alliance
Posted - 2009.02.04 20:36:00 - [377]

Edited by: Brian Kith on 04/02/2009 20:36:19
The queue as described is wonderful for beginning players. It's exactly what I didn't have, but needed.

It is however inadequate for higher skill pointed players. I think there should be a choice of either a 24 hour skill queue exactly as described *or* the ability to place one skill in queue regardless of the start time.

As others have said, long duration skills inevitably complete in the middle of our vacation. Having the ability to queue up one skill that begins outside 24 hours would completely alleviate that concern and make this a total winner for everyone.

Highwind Cid
Posted - 2009.02.04 20:37:00 - [378]

Edited by: Highwind Cid on 04/02/2009 20:38:03

Absolutely paramount.

Also, whats with "oh uh its useless since I can't do it, uh over 24 hour long skill, uh...uh"

Set up your short skills to the maximum efficiency (just under 24 hours) THEN set a long skill as your last in the queue. Repeat as necessary. Its perfect. Not too limited, not to excessive.

Advanced Component Research Enterprise
Posted - 2009.02.04 20:40:00 - [379]

this is cool, i dont have to worry about changing my skill and i can set a skill and not worry if it ends before work

of course i dont really have any <24 hour skills anymore but hey its still a good change

Great Big Research
Posted - 2009.02.04 20:44:00 - [380]

total winsauce!!!!

this has to be the biggest buff to the new player experience so far. i hated getting up in the middle of the night cos every skill i had was less than 6 hours.

Hesod Adee
Posted - 2009.02.04 20:48:00 - [381]

Edited by: Hesod Adee on 04/02/2009 20:48:58
Thank you.

A longer queue would be nice for when I go on holiday (meaning I can't login for at least a week), but I've got enough skills trained to 4 to make that unnecessary.

Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2009.02.04 20:52:00 - [382]

Am I the only one that sees the irony that this skill queue would be great for dealing with extended downtimes due to deploying new features...

M. Corp
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2009.02.04 20:56:00 - [383]

Edited by: Igus on 04/02/2009 21:43:37

But just 24 hours inst good by its self.

24 hours works great for newer players but after nearly 2 years of playing I have very few skills that I want to train that are sub 24 hours. What I would like to see is a modification to the 24 hour rule.

This mod would be 24 hours + 1 skill. This would work the same way the dev described it with the exception that you are always allowed to add 1 and only one skill to the end of your queue reguardless when the currently traing skill finishes finishes. This would allow players to train for example a 5 day skill then queue up one more skill to occure after the 5 day skill finishes. Also the player would not be able to queue up another skill untill the oringinal 5 day skill is finished. At that piont the queue would effectivly be empty. And the previos rule of 24 hours + 1 skill would be valid again.

/edit might explaine what I was thinking better.
Here is a simple bit of pseudo code toalways allow someone to queue one more skill past the 24 hour limit, but at the same time it always limits the number of skills trained past the 24 hour mark to <= 1 skill.

if (queue.skillsStartPast(24h + currTime) == 0)
return fail

Internet Knight
The Kobayashi Maru
Posted - 2009.02.04 21:01:00 - [384]

♥ CCP Eris Discordia ♥

I demand retroactive skillqueue -- all the time I've lost in the past because I've had a real life should be reimbursed to me!

Lord Matrix
Flying Banana Squad
Posted - 2009.02.04 21:06:00 - [385]

Originally by: Gwen'efer
Originally by: Lord Matrix
24h queue is not enough. What if you go on a holiday or a business trip that takes a week and do not want to train a level 5 skill? If I were to take my notebook with me I would just login to change the skill and then logoff since I'd have much more important things to do like attending a meeting or enjoying myself. Therefore the argument in devblog that a skill queue longer than 24h will cause problems is nonsense. If someone does not want to play eve he won't play it. Customers should not be forced to login. Maybe instead make the game more thrilling so people couldn't wait until they can login.

easy mate. ccp gives you one finger and you pull in the whole arm.

If they plan on doing something, they should do it right the first time. Otherwise it will just cause problems in the long run.

Low Security Military Excursions
Posted - 2009.02.04 21:07:00 - [386]

I very rarely train short skills anymore, and this queue will still be great for me. My daily schedule involves the alarm going off 20 minutes into downtime, and me leaving for work 5 minutes after it is "scheduled" to finish. This means I can't really count on changing skills in the morning. If it is scheduled to end between the time I sleep, and the time I get home from work, I have to currently switch to a longer skill. Look at the comparison of my skill training under the 2 systems and tell me what you'd prefer

What I have to do now:
Start skill A (20 days)
Skill A is scheduled to stop while I'm at work. I need to stop it the night before (14 hours left)
Start Skill B (20 days)
I get home and can play for 6 hours, so I start A up again for that time, then restart B before I go to sleep (A has 8 left)
Get home next day, repeat (A has 2 left)
Finally, I finish A and can start B full-time, until it invariably finishes 20 days later under similiar cirumstances.

With the Queue:
Start skill A (20 days)
Skill A will finish while I'm at work (14 hours left). Queue up B to start when it finishes.
A finishes, B starts. I play my normal hours, and don't have to mess around switching skills so that things finish during my play window. I just need to log in within 24 hours of when they finish to queue up the next.

I fully support the queue, and couldn't be happier. It can be useful for players across ALL ranges of SP.

Orion GUardian
Posted - 2009.02.04 21:14:00 - [387]

This is made of win and Cake

Sephray Industries
Serenitas Solutus
Posted - 2009.02.04 21:14:00 - [388]

Edited by: Borsek on 04/02/2009 21:32:00
I don't want to sound like an ungrateful bit**, but after removing ghost training it's only natural you added this. From the business perspective, you shouldn't really care whether the player logs in or not, as long as they pay the monthly fee. So, removing ghost training means customers can't set the queue to last forever then stop paying and restart the account a year later, being fully trained. Ergo, you can set the timer to 1 week or maybe a month instead of 24h. The limit doesn't really bother me, but you yourself wrote you wanted our opinions. So there you have it.

P.S.: THANK YOU!!!!!1111oneoneeleventwelve!!!!


Not entirely my idea (read the posts above)... but I think you could also keep the 24h limit and add a 'reserve slot'.
1. Players would be able to put any skill in the special reserve slot.
2. If there is no skill in training and in the queue, the 'reserve slot' skill starts training.
3. When the 'reserve slot' skill stops training, the character stops training and starts losing time.

What this means: After the queue finishes, this skill starts training. Even if you don't use the queue, but do use your reserve slot and change skills manually, if you forget to manually change your skill, no time is lost.

Kinda like the 24+1 idea, but with slight adjustments :)

In the end, it would be possible to implement a system that chooses a random skill and starts training it if your character's queue and reserve slot are empty... but I guess that would be too much.

anyway, my 2 (Euro) cents

Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2009.02.04 21:15:00 - [389]

YES, OMG11!!!11CCP WeLovesyou7!!Thx!ByeKissesHUgs. Shocked

Col Callahan
Boogie Monsters
Posted - 2009.02.04 21:24:00 - [390]

Something is better then nothing. don't care really. I await re-balancing / buff in December, kthxs

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