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CCP Fear

Posted - 2009.02.04 18:14:00 - [331]
 

Originally by: Red 7
Originally by: CCP Fear
Originally by: Ki Tarra
Originally by: CCP Fear
We will be implementing the possibility to drag skills from the hangar or cargo or wherever, you will however have to be able to train it manually to do this. (I.e. meet the requirements)
As a suggestion, allow people to move skills from their cargo/hanger to their head even if they don't meet the requirements. They won't be able to train it. It would just sit in their skill list with zero skill points until they meet the requirements, but that would solve any problems with queuing up skills that have inter-dependent requirements.


Otherwise, awesome stuff.


This was discussed, but ATM this is on the back burner due to technical reasons. But I'll get a discussion going. Who knows what these programming wizards can do given more time. But it probably will not happen with Apocrypha.


How about adding a place in the queue interface to drop the books?
Then you're not changing the existing mechanic for using the skill books - all the code goes into the new queue system.


Sure, that's a thought.

However, why implement a seperate function, which works as something else and thus waste resources. These resources could be used to implement something that can work for apocryphe and make it even better.

TBH, It is a nice to have thing to be able to do and we might not be able to do it for apocrypha. And I don't see why to do something quick fixy... only to do it again later. Much rather use it for something good.

But i'll see where we stand on it timewise.


Arthalion Thoidon
Caldari
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc.
Dawn of Transcendence
Posted - 2009.02.04 18:14:00 - [332]
 

/me sacrifices a rotten shark/goat/cow/piece-of-meat-of-your-choice to the all powerful Eve gods at CCP.

No more "oops, my alt just missed another 3 days of training because I forgot log it in a few hours after seeing it had 3 hours of training left."

Thanks, merci, Danke, bedankt, gracias, etc...

Ted Grayham
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.02.04 18:20:00 - [333]
 

OMGLUVUGUIZSRSLYKTHXUGR34TOMGOMGOMGOMOGOMG1OM1!11KEKE!ELav!1un. <3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3

Raymon James
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.02.04 18:23:00 - [334]
 

I have a bunch of skill chunkets left (between 5 and 24 hours long) that Im going to hold off on finishing up just to stuff into this system!

ovenproofjet
Caldari
Therapy.
Posted - 2009.02.04 18:25:00 - [335]
 

Edited by: ovenproofjet on 04/02/2009 18:25:37
Edited by: ovenproofjet on 04/02/2009 18:24:50
YES, OMG11!!!11CCP WeLovesyou7!!Thx!ByeKissesHUgs xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxooxoxox
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

This is why CCP are my favourite developers EVER!!!!!!!!


Hector Martyr
Posted - 2009.02.04 18:27:00 - [336]
 

skill queue?

haha, I guess principles only last as long as the wallet is full!

I thought CCP has pointed out several times that skill queues will NEVER become a part of eve... 'because players should be playing, not gathering skillpoints' but I guess I have to point to my previous statement!

Nihilrek
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.02.04 18:30:00 - [337]
 

Well, obviously Im here to thank you, really nice, waiting for sooo long for this.
Next the question, will it work during Down times? Will it change skill during theese dayily holes in my life?

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.02.04 18:35:00 - [338]
 

Originally by: Nihilrek
Well, obviously Im here to thank you, really nice, waiting for sooo long for this.
Next the question, will it work during Down times? Will it change skill during theese dayily holes in my life?

Yes it will work.

Raymon James
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.02.04 18:35:00 - [339]
 

Originally by: Hector Martyr
skill queue?

haha, I guess principles only last as long as the wallet is full!

I thought CCP has pointed out several times that skill queues will NEVER become a part of eve... 'because players should be playing, not gathering skillpoints' but I guess I have to point to my previous statement!
what on earth are you bableing about? Skill que has been in the "on the drawing board" here since I first started playing.

here let me quote it for you

Quote:
Higher Education
This could enable players to either queue skills so that when one level finishes the next level in that skill starts training automatically, or another preset skill starts training automatically. Dual training would enable you to have a primary long-term skill in training with a secondary short-term skill sharing the training time. After a level in the secondary skill has trained, the primary skill trains at full speed again.


Desparo
Posted - 2009.02.04 18:36:00 - [340]
 

Hmm your logic doesn't compute"

------------
"While itīs cool that you can advance your character when you are offline, we did worry that if we introduced a skill queue some players might just set a queue for a year and become less active in EVE. Thatīs not what a massively multiplayer ONLINE game is about. EVE is a social game and we want you exposed to other players so you can start making legends out of you or corporation and strive for domination. A long abstinence from EVE would ruin this for us."

Doesn't explain the massive amount of 25day skills out there. Especially when so many are mandatory to get to the next stage of skills. Doesn't justify the 24 hour limit. Some people like to, or can only play the game on the weekends. Check your log in database to verify that.

Drew Blaze
Posted - 2009.02.04 18:38:00 - [341]
 

im so confused... guess ill have to wait and see.. but atm.. i dont get all of it..

Freakus Geekus
Posted - 2009.02.04 18:42:00 - [342]
 

There are few words
To express how awesome
The skill queue is

Lothros Andastar
Gallente
Posted - 2009.02.04 18:44:00 - [343]
 

I am very disappointed in you CCP.

The one thing that made eve online unique, and you go and ruin it.

For shame.

Ford Chicago
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.02.04 18:46:00 - [344]
 

After years of the player base begging for a skill queue, this is what you implement? What a waste of time and energy.

The 50 skill limit, when combined with a 24 hour start window, is arbitrary and stupid . Assuming a Rank1 Level 1 skill takes 15 minutes, that's a maximum of 96 skills in 24 hours. Why create an arbitrary limit of 50 when the maximum theoretical boundary is just over twice that? Your code already has to check that the skill start time is within 24 hours, so an additional check that skillcount < 50 is just dumb.

However, the real problem is the 24 hour start window. While this does provide a convenience for skills that would end in the middle of the night or while people at work, it simply doesn't go far enough. And people that are already playing daily are spending enough time in game to manage this on their own.

Out of game skill progression is supposed to be a feature of Eve. Yet the blog argues that if players didn't have to change skills, they wouldn't play the game. That's contradictory. Changing skills is not the same as playing the game. People play the game because they like to play the game, not because it's fun to right click/train skill.

Ideally, I could queue up as many skills as I want and they sequentially train until my subscription expires. Yes, this would result in everyone in Eve having 20 year skill queues, so I can understand why that's not a good idea.

However, a 30 day queue and/or a 50 skill limit seems totally reasonable. This wouldn't create a horrendous burden on the database, or allow people to "play" without ever logging in. It does allow a player to go on holiday or a business trip or military deployment or any other situation where they can't log into the game every day and not have to go through extraordinary contortions to continue training skills they want to train or have to resign themselves to training a Rank 14 Level 5.

Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Posted - 2009.02.04 18:51:00 - [345]
 

Excellent balancing solution using the start time method, specially for cross-training skill areas or as a new player.

Looking at the implementation, it seems you've taken care of partial skill training - which is great for older players as well - since finishing off the last 6 hours of a skill can be quite inconvenient under the current system.

My only comment would be: extend the possible start times out to 48 hours, as what you propose really only gives 1 day + the longest skill time to train. At least code it in such as way that you can easily change it ;)

pickens
Posted - 2009.02.04 18:53:00 - [346]
 

Is that "Ode to Joy" I hear playing?

Ensireka Endrikai
Posted - 2009.02.04 18:56:00 - [347]
 

Well, this is all fine and dandy. However, I still think its foolish to tell the players that they CAN pay for a game and not do as they please, within reason (no cheating, hacking and such).

If i want to train skills till the cows come home and neglect my electric company ... i should be able to. If i want to have skills queued till next year, let me, its MY LOSS to not socialize. 24hrs? haha. I see it like this. People have lives beyond games ... sometime things take more then 24hrs to deal with ... like a death in the family ... your wedding & honey moon.

Seriously ... WE PAY, YOU GET THE $. Thats what its all about. Why complain if WE dont want to get online? We save the servers some lag and everyone some bandwidth. What about people whom have natural disaters? Their house is destroyed to a tornado ... a hurricane ... earhtquake ... should they be screwed for something they could NOT control? I think not.

So, all you do, is toss out a decent idea ... then limit it because you BELIVE that people who PAY should do as YOU want. Get real. You already stopped skill training from working after the account is cancelled. LET the PAYEES get a better benefit.

You ADMIT that people have lives outside of a GAME. Let us LIVE it. All YOU do is try to LIMIT our REAL lives. You get your $ and we get a queue that makes US HAPPY knowing the $ we spent aint just going to the trash each month when there are things we cant do about connecting (sometimes).

I dont expect you to agree ... i expect you to LIVE with what i just said. There are MANY UNCONTROLABLE circumstances that ALL HUMANS run into. Ever left town or the country for work? Let us deal with them appropriately.

-End of Transmission

Xornicon Altair
Woopatang
Primary.
Posted - 2009.02.04 19:01:00 - [348]
 

Too many pages... I'm not going to read them all.

How difficult would it be to allow the game to set a vacation mode? Perhaps something that you need to inform the game that you are going to use several days in advance, and then, during that vacation mode of up to 30 days (just an arbitrary number, change as you wish), a player who knows they won't be at the computer can queue up skills for that period of time.

Perhaps allow a player no more than 30 days per year of vacation time. That should cover most vacations and other emergencies. While in vacation mode, if the player logs in, it disables vacation mode and the queue goes away. The player would have to inform EVE that they intend to return to vacation and re-setup the training queue for while they're gone.

Or, perhaps we should only allow players vacation time based on how long their subscription has been active? Say, they get 1 day of vacation time for every full week that they've had a subscription. Using up the days would do just that, use them up, and they would need to continue their subscription to get more days?

I'm just trying to find a way to help out those of us who can't be a part of the game all the time. In addition, if a player goes into vacation mode, CEOs who look up the last login info should see "Vacation" as the response for players on vacation, this way, players who are legitimately unable to login don't get booted from corps for inactivity.

But, this is all at CCP's sufferage. I look forward to your responses.

Raymon James
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.02.04 19:05:00 - [349]
 

Edited by: Raymon James on 04/02/2009 19:06:44
ok some of the whining is just silly.

as it is right now their is no que system

the Que system is mostly ment for new players and to make it easyer for people like me to avoid building up piles of skill chunkets all over the place.

but after what? over 5 years now with no skill system AT ALL you see them give a que system that deals with the more annoying bits of skill training (needing to flip skills while in game when you have a lot of newbie skills or just because one of your skills finishes off in a fight so you miss it and then three hours later oh I missed skill training time) and suddenly its not good enough?

Give

me

a

BREAK.

Seriously if this change is sutch a bad deal for you then clearly

EVE IS NOT THE GAME FOR YOU!

TimGascoigne
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.02.04 19:05:00 - [350]
 

Originally by: Lothros Andastar
I am very disappointed in you CCP.

The one thing that made eve online unique, and you go and ruin it.

For shame.


I am joining the Army in June and because of the technical nature of the job ( aircraft technician) I am going to be pretty much isolated in training for the first six months and then as busy as F--K for the next six months and will inevitably miss out on skilling.

Also there is a real possibility of going on deployment. so take your ideals about "unique" and never speak of them again. Because it's not our fault that some people genuinely need this feature.

Caldari Citizen4714
Posted - 2009.02.04 19:08:00 - [351]
 

Originally by: Red 7
Originally by: Raymon James
/quote]its because the database would then have to look through all of the starbases inventorys to find the skillbooks (not counting the issue of "which ship.storage bin and so on did I leave it in and can you learn the skill from there when your here") i cant blame them for following KISS programing.


There's actually a very simple way to implement the use of skill books.
Give the queue 5 slots and allow the drag and drop of skill books into it.
The book moves from your hanger into the slot and can then be used in the plan.
If you wanna take it out - you can either drag it back to your hanger (in which case if it's queued it's removed) or treat them like rigs (you can't take them out).
Better yet, just have it so you can put skillbooks in your pod. Then you can queue up anything in your head or in your pod. And if you get podkilled the books are gone just like implants.

BenjaminBarker
Posted - 2009.02.04 19:14:00 - [352]
 

Looks great, and it's great too see all the back and forth with this. We're probably suggesting things you guys have spent hours discussing, but it's great to see the feedback on these ideas.

You guys rock!

Raymon James
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.02.04 19:21:00 - [353]
 

Originally by: Sieessenschwanz
Originally by: Red 7
Originally by: Raymon James
/quote]its because the database would then have to look through all of the starbases inventorys to find the skillbooks (not counting the issue of "which ship.storage bin and so on did I leave it in and can you learn the skill from there when your here") i cant blame them for following KISS programing.


There's actually a very simple way to implement the use of skill books.
Give the queue 5 slots and allow the drag and drop of skill books into it.
The book moves from your hanger into the slot and can then be used in the plan.
If you wanna take it out - you can either drag it back to your hanger (in which case if it's queued it's removed) or treat them like rigs (you can't take them out).
Better yet, just have it so you can put skillbooks in your pod. Then you can queue up anything in your head or in your pod. And if you get podkilled the books are gone just like implants.
I suspect that what we are seeing is the reality of their current progarming effort

the people who came up with this were pobably on the UI team

the people who would be the ones to make it posible to create the code needed to train skills from a book are probably on the database team. and odds are that they already have a 6 month backlog of "Can you do this pleasethanks" requests already due in part to them haveing to tear apart the database due to the last exploit just to see what the heck happend

Sade Onyx
Posted - 2009.02.04 19:22:00 - [354]
 

Im not so sure what everyone is so thrilled about.

Okay, so we dont have to wake up at night to change a skill, but I dont beleive ive ever let a skill run out when I know i'll be asleep, and yes, this will be great for new players and characters who actually have skills that take less than 24 hours to train. So for those reasons its very pleasing news, but why the hysteria ?

The tiny skills which take but a few hours can be trained during game play when a que isnt needed, before I ever log off Eve the last thing I always do is make sure I switch from long skill to short skill.

The problem occurs when you run out of those nice little skills and your character progresses to the stage where he must train skills to level 5 which typically take about 6-8 days, those are the skills you forget about, those are the ones which are difficult to plan (since you dont know what will happen in r/l in 7 days) and those are the skills which we need a que for! Since ghost training is now disabled why not extend this queuer to 7 days? Why only 24 hour?

Dont want to sound ungratfull, because im sure this feature will help new players, but for me, unless I'm going to be starting a new character any time soon it looks like trusty Evemon is still ftw.

Bodie Ryan
Posted - 2009.02.04 19:23:00 - [355]
 

First off I think this is a great and much needed improvement. Everyone whining about how 24 hours is to short are missing the point. Anyways too much to read through the whole thing but if it hasn't been suggested already.

How about linking the certificate planner to the skill queue, I know alot of people hate on the planner but I for one use it and if I could select a cert. I wanna add to the queue that would be great.

Anyways Thanks for all the hard work you guys are doing, can't wait for M10.

Dassad Tahara
Amarr
Imperial Zoba-Tahara
Posted - 2009.02.04 19:26:00 - [356]
 

Whaahooooo!

I recently cancelled all my accounts because I got fed up with how the game dictates to me when I need to log on. I'll be back in full force as soon as this is implemented! *does the happy dance* Very Happy

Ralitge boyter
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.02.04 19:33:00 - [357]
 

Cool, not just for short skill but also good for the ending of a long skill. I quite often find a rank 8 or higher skill will end in the middle of the night or during a working day yet when I come home I would be so happy to see it trained to level 5 after all those days, that I sometimes just had to accept the time loss caused by letting it run. This queue seems to give me the option to plan something in the morning for when the skill finishes that afternoon or that night...

If not please fix your queue Smile

Good for new players as well plan a day and don't have to "loose" time because you where sleeping or working etc...

D'ceet
Posted - 2009.02.04 19:46:00 - [358]
 

HELLS YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Swift Wind
6rasshopper Inc.
Sherwood Forest
Posted - 2009.02.04 19:47:00 - [359]
 

\0/

YAY!!!!

Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Posted - 2009.02.04 19:47:00 - [360]
 

Its fantastic, but why 24 hours?

Am I misunderstanding? If I've got 7 days left on a skill I can't queue the next skill until within 24 hours of that end of my current skill? So I'd have to wait 6 days before entering my skill queue?

Ideally if I have say 7 days left I'd like to start the queue so maybe I fit in a couple of 5 hour skills at the end of my current skill before starting the next 30 day skill. Is that viable with this system?

If learning skills dont update the stats for the next skill in the queue then its worthless to new starters/alts. If you can't queue from the end of your current long skill then its useless to vets.

I only really see this being useful for alts after their learning skills are done. Yay for Alts Online. Sad


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