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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.01.30 22:07:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Goumindong

Originally by: Xori Ruscuv

Harbingers are amazing, however. Imo, Zealots and Ishtars are overrated/overestimated. It's not that they're bad, obviously. It's just that if you can fly either of those, you can probably fly something else that will fill the job better.


Depends on what you're doing really.


This.

Heikki
Gallente
Erasers inc.
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2009.01.30 22:27:00 - [122]
 

In an attempted to go back on-topic for overrated ships:

* Capital ships
- Many people start training for these without clear idea why they want them. Probably would get more fun, and even efficiency, in some other direction.

* FOTM / Standard setups
- They definitely work well in their envelope. Then again, in Eve small scale PVP the biggest challenge is persuading winnable targets to fight you, which is little bit harder in predictable setup.


-Lasse
fond of Ela B's combat Rorqual

Xori Ruscuv
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2009.01.30 22:53:00 - [123]
 

Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 30/01/2009 23:03:42
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Zealots are overrated

brb locator agent MadMadMadMadMadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very Mad


Originally by: Goumindong
Depends on what you're doing really.

Then I still don't see it.

Zealot: Yes, it has range. But it's a primarymobile. It's paper thin. Yes, you can pop inties if they're 40km away and heading for you. If they get to you, you're screwed. You're not fast or tanky enough to get back to a gate if you jump into an ambush. You're not fast enough to outrun an ambush. If you're not primaried, you're going to be jammed. Big blob fight? You lag? You're dead. Small fight? Well, you know the drill!

The way I see it: if you're left alone you're going to wreck ****. But if you're going to wreck **** if left alone, you're not going to get left alone.

Harbinger: It doesn't have range, yes, that's true. Not a primarymobile. Can fit a medium neut. Can fit Warrior IIs. Has a chance of getting back to the gate.

Could be just a playstyle thing. I like flying ships that stay alive for a while.

To be fair, I was going to say: "HACs are overrated/overestimated", but I changed my mind.

EDIT: Terriana, I've seen you agreeing in many other posts that in general, the Harbinger is a better ship. QuestionQuestion

Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.01.30 23:15:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Stuff


Zealots can do many things a Binger cannot. It's faster, more agile and has more range. Yes, it has a weaker tank, but for say sniper HAC fights, good luck doing anything worthwhile in your tanked up Binger.

They are just different. The Zealot is a scalpel, the Harbinger is a sledgehammer. You use one where finesse is required, the other when IT'S CLOBBERING TIME!!! :thething:

Xori Ruscuv
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2009.01.31 00:21:00 - [125]
 

Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 31/01/2009 00:21:50
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Stuff


Zealots can do many things a Binger cannot. It's faster, more agile and has more range. Yes, it has a weaker tank, but for say sniper HAC fights, good luck doing anything worthwhile in your tanked up Binger.

They are just different. The Zealot is a scalpel, the Harbinger is a sledgehammer. You use one where finesse is required, the other when IT'S CLOBBERING TIME!!! :thething:

Yeah, I understand those points.

As I said, it's a question of playstyle. (I personally don't enjoy flying glass cannons.)

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.01.31 00:27:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
EDIT: Terriana, I've seen you agreeing in many other posts that in general, the Harbinger is a better ship. QuestionQuestion

1 r, 2 n's

I know I've said the Harbinger is more flexible. I don't think I've said it's objectively or strictly better.

And the Zealot is much, much faster than the harbinger... 2100+ m/s overloaded is plenty fast enough to get back to a gate. Hell, it's about fast enough to burn AWAY from the gate and leave. (but not quite)

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2009.01.31 02:38:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: Xori Ruscuv

Yeah, I understand those points.

As I said, it's a question of playstyle. (I personally don't enjoy flying glass cannons.)


Don't think of it as a glass cannon. Think of it as a "doesn't stay around long enough to get shot at cannon"

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.01.31 02:54:00 - [128]
 

Edited by: Terianna Eri on 31/01/2009 02:54:03
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv

Yeah, I understand those points.

As I said, it's a question of playstyle. (I personally don't enjoy flying glass cannons.)


Don't think of it as a glass cannon. Think of it as a "doesn't stay around long enough to get shot at cannon"

A glass cannon with WHEELS :D whooooooosh~
...
Embarassed

Norwood Franskly
Minmatar
Fleet of the Damned
Eternal Ascension
Posted - 2009.01.31 03:01:00 - [129]
 

Personally I think the curse is a bit over rated, they can be nasty but not the instant I win button.

I used to think the ishtar was pretty over rated but a few recent encounters have changed my mind, when its flown by someone competent it's pretty good.

Xori Ruscuv
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2009.01.31 06:40:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
EDIT: Terriana, I've seen you agreeing in many other posts that in general, the Harbinger is a better ship. QuestionQuestion

1 r, 2 n's

Gawsh >,<

Quote:
I know I've said the Harbinger is more flexible. I don't think I've said it's objectively or strictly better.

Ah, pardon. I must have unwittingly interjected my own opinion. Cool

Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.01.31 07:14:00 - [131]
 

Edited by: Deschenus Maximus on 31/01/2009 07:15:06
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv

Yeah, I understand those points.

As I said, it's a question of playstyle. (I personally don't enjoy flying glass cannons.)


Don't think of it as a glass cannon. Think of it as a "doesn't stay around long enough to get shot at cannon"


Precisely. The role of the Zealot is to apply massive amounts of DPS unto a target, and disengage the moment it is treathened. It simply doesn't have any of the tools necessary to act in a very efficient manner in other situations: no drone bay, very limited buffer, limited active tanking capacity because of grid and cpu restrictctions, as well as cap restrictions.

HOWEVER, as long as you understand, AND ACCEPT, theses limitations, and employ the Zealot in situations where it is at its best, you will begin to understand why Binger > Zealot is a fallacy.


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