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fkingfurious
Posted - 2009.01.29 15:33:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Vrabac
Edited by: Vrabac on 29/01/2009 15:04:46
Originally by: fkingfurious
EDIT: Where the **** is this 800+ dps figure coming from anyway? With LVL 5 skills (just for a laugh) Hobgoblin II's (as if) 425 II's (for further fail) 3 x Gyro's (so no tank) and RF EMP (crap for killing Drakes with btw) it does 627DPS. I think someone is making **** up.



I'm not "making **** up". Lvl 5 skills are something easily beaten with

a) actually traning them to lvl 5
b) using hardwirings

There is also such ammo as Hail M (very useful no matter what people say on forums) and 2 slots for launchers.

Have a peek


Ah yes, the totally ****ing stupid absolutely maximum possible damage with overloading and a 150 odd mills worth of implants but still pretty ****ing awful setup.

Yes you could fit your ship like that, but you would lose.

And look very very silly.

Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
Posted - 2009.01.29 15:37:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: fkingfurious
Originally by: Vrabac
Edited by: Vrabac on 29/01/2009 15:04:46
Originally by: fkingfurious
EDIT: Where the **** is this 800+ dps figure coming from anyway? With LVL 5 skills (just for a laugh) Hobgoblin II's (as if) 425 II's (for further fail) 3 x Gyro's (so no tank) and RF EMP (crap for killing Drakes with btw) it does 627DPS. I think someone is making **** up.



I'm not "making **** up". Lvl 5 skills are something easily beaten with

a) actually traning them to lvl 5
b) using hardwirings

There is also such ammo as Hail M (very useful no matter what people say on forums) and 2 slots for launchers.

Have a peek


Ah yes, the totally ****ing stupid absolutely maximum possible damage with overloading and a 150 odd mills worth of implants but still pretty ****ing awful setup.

Yes you could fit your ship like that, but you would lose.

And look very very silly.


Google some. Razz

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.01.29 16:53:00 - [93]
 

Edited by: Gypsio III on 29/01/2009 16:58:03

Originally by: ry ry
i wish my ****ing hurricane did 850 DPS :(


My Drake does 850 DPS. Razz

Well, actually, it doesn't. But if I had max skills, 5% missile ROF and HAM damage implants, Terror Rage and 5x Hobgoblin IIs, and then I overloaded the HAMLs, a triple-BCS Drake would do 850 DPS at ~17 km. Laughing

Of course, by those absurd rules, the other BCs could probably get over 1000 DPS. Razz

P'uck
Posted - 2009.01.29 17:46:00 - [94]
 

I don't think those rules arent all that absurd. You see a lot of folk flying around with dual 5%dmg implants, triple dmg mods and (close to) max skills in their favourite weapon category. (Usually the same category as the one they bought the second dmg implant for Wink)

achoura
Posted - 2009.01.29 17:50:00 - [95]
 

Oh there are afew ppl using that very cane setup, with slaves ofc. Usually once ship no 3 explodes the rest run, it's very real and very lethal.

Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
Posted - 2009.01.29 18:06:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: achoura
Oh there are afew ppl using that very cane setup, with slaves ofc. Usually once ship no 3 explodes the rest run, it's very real and very lethal.


Actually I'm not using slaves on that one since it needs 5% grid implant in slot 6. Would need to drop down to 220s in that case I'm afraid. It's still very effective although certainly not the best ballanced mix.

Some people I know that use it with slaves use mixed guns, something I really hate doing. Or use 220s, 2 eanms and 2 gyros with rof + dmg rigs getting slightly less dps but considerably more tank since 2nd eanm with slaves easily beats 1 eanm with trimarks.

But yeah I COULD fit like that but I WOULD lose because I dont really know what I'm talking about and I also look very very silly unlike mr civire alt over there. Laughing

Julius Romanus
Amarr
Posted - 2009.01.29 19:22:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Embarcadero
Originally by: Endless Subversion
Omen / Arbitrator

I can't remember how many times I've seen these ships mentioned as viable cruisers.

The vexor, thorax, rupture and blackbird are pretty much the only t1 cruisers worth anything with a nod towards caracals in an anti-frig role.



FYI Arbitrator with TD's will halt 1-2 sniper BS's EASILY.


fYi a tracking disruptor wont hit reliably past about 90km.

Julius Romanus
Amarr
Posted - 2009.01.29 21:00:00 - [98]
 

Most over-estimated ship to me is the Curse. It's a decent solo boat if you limit yourself to gun cruisers, and BC's if you have the time. Post nano age it's lost a lot of survivability, and in a gang is easy to push off grid w/ heavy missile platforms(cerb, drake, ect). Havent seen what jav hams can do after the rebalance, but they used to also be effective w/o heavy nano.

It's not a bad ship, but its not even close to the same league as it was before the nos nerf(utterly broken), and not on the same level as it was before the nano nerf(highly effective).

DubanFP
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.01.29 21:48:00 - [99]
 

Edited by: DubanFP on 29/01/2009 22:02:16
Originally by: fkingfurious

Ah yes, the totally ****ing stupid absolutely maximum possible damage with overloading and a 150 odd mills worth of implants but still pretty ****ing awful setup.

Yes you could fit your ship like that, but you would lose.

And look very very silly.

Actually I do it with a 50 mil ship "post insurance" plus about 30 mil in implants with my current skillset, no overloading. In theory nearly 900 DPS unoverloaded is possible while still fitting a 1600mm plate with perfect skills and another 15 mil CPU implant. This means its quite possible to break 1,000+ overloaded if you want to take it to the extreme. My current is like 990DPS overloaded.

The thing is I've been working on my Hurricane fitting for over a year, slowly raising the DPS more and more. Honestly I was impressed when i hit 600 DPS in late 07'. Yes, all fittings include a mwd/scram/web and no fitting mods.

Although I prefer the Cane I know the Harbinger can match it or at least come very close to matching it. Finally the sooner you kill your enemy the less time they have to call reinforcements or spring their trap. So more DPS means increased survivabillity.

echohead
Posted - 2009.01.29 22:11:00 - [100]
 

I hate to beat a dead horse here, but there are no overrated ships. Despite the number of threads saying everything should be boosted or nerfed.

Eve is a game of teamwork, and I do not mean blob warfare. With teamwork many of the ships people say are useless really shine.

ashellia
Posted - 2009.01.30 12:05:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Visceroth
Originally by: VoiceInTheDesert
...Minny ones are not enough tank for my liking. The Amarr ones are really the only ones worth flying for more reasons than gang bonus.



[Sleipnir, PvP]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
F-43 Repeatative LADAR Backup Sensors

Large Shield Booster II
Invulnerability Field II
Warp Disruptor II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Invulnerability Field II

425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Siege Warfare Link - Active Shielding

Core Defence Operational Solidifier I
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

503 DPS tank...is that good? Can last 5 minutes.


single ECCM on a minnie ship
EM resist rigs
no MWD

do u even fly minmatar?


Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority
Posted - 2009.01.30 12:14:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: ashellia
single ECCM on a minnie ship
EM resist rigs
no MWD

do u even fly minmatar?


It's not that bad for the price if you wish to use it for station hugging in empire wars or low-sec ganking...tho the EM rig is a tad weird...use dual Core Defence Operational Solidifier Is...

Damon Runyon
Sneaky Bastards
Posted - 2009.01.30 14:05:00 - [103]
 

My Rapier's been very disappointing lately - mainly due to web nerf, but also because I get jammed so often these days.

Fitting one ECCM is fair enough, but fitting two seems likely to kill most decent/accepted Minmatar fits.

Reaver Babe
Posted - 2009.01.30 14:21:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: ZW Dewitt
Falcon: people act as if the fight is over the second one uncloaks.


apparently somebody only flies in large gangs/fleets, because in small gangs (5 or fewer people) that is exactly the case.

Reaver Babe
Posted - 2009.01.30 14:23:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Damon Runyon
My Rapier's been very disappointing lately - mainly due to web nerf, but also because I get jammed so often these days.

Fitting one ECCM is fair enough, but fitting two seems likely to kill most decent/accepted Minmatar fits.


try flying a ship that only has 3 mids and HAS to devote them to MWD/web/point just in order to be able to do its job. ****es you off even more then =(

fivetide humidyear
Gallente
Fool Mental Junket
Posted - 2009.01.30 14:58:00 - [106]
 

AF's tend to die to quite a lot of ships for another reason too, especially if the BC is well flown and fitted......ec-300 drones.

i always fit them, people assume that ecm drones are for running away, i use them to break the lock of scrambling AB ships to extend range and force them to consider what to do next as my AC / pulses are now in a much better place, not that 220mm AC don't track pretty well anyway.

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.01.30 15:53:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
Edited by: Gypsio III on 29/01/2009 16:58:03

Originally by: ry ry
i wish my ****ing hurricane did 850 DPS :(


My Drake does 850 DPS. Razz

Well, actually, it doesn't. But if I had max skills, 5% missile ROF and HAM damage implants, Terror Rage and 5x Hobgoblin IIs, and then I overloaded the HAMLs, a triple-BCS Drake would do 850 DPS at ~17 km. Laughing

Of course, by those absurd rules, the other BCs could probably get over 1000 DPS. Razz

I can't get the Harbinger over 926/934 (AN Multi/Conflag) without faction gear and officer implants - max skills, 5% damage, 5% RoF, hammer IIs, 3x HS, overloaded heavy pulse lasers... don't know what I'm missing.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.01.30 16:13:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: Gypsio III
Edited by: Gypsio III on 29/01/2009 16:58:03

Originally by: ry ry
i wish my ****ing hurricane did 850 DPS :(


My Drake does 850 DPS. Razz

Well, actually, it doesn't. But if I had max skills, 5% missile ROF and HAM damage implants, Terror Rage and 5x Hobgoblin IIs, and then I overloaded the HAMLs, a triple-BCS Drake would do 850 DPS at ~17 km. Laughing

Of course, by those absurd rules, the other BCs could probably get over 1000 DPS. Razz

I can't get the Harbinger over 926/934 (AN Multi/Conflag) without faction gear and officer implants - max skills, 5% damage, 5% RoF, hammer IIs, 3x HS, overloaded heavy pulse lasers... don't know what I'm missing.


Probably nothing, the "1000 DPS" figure was just a guess on my part. Smile

Kaileen Starsong
Amarr
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.01.30 16:29:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Terianna Eri

I can't get the Harbinger over 926/934 (AN Multi/Conflag) without faction gear and officer implants - max skills, 5% damage, 5% RoF, hammer IIs, 3x HS, overloaded heavy pulse lasers... don't know what I'm missing.


Probably nothing, the "1000 DPS" figure was just a guess on my part. Smile


When 3 damage mods is not enough - use 4 of them Laughing That said, while it's pretty inefficient, you gain around 40 DPS, lower/higher depending on ship ofc. Technically I can see some cases where such kind of fit or 3 damage mods+rof/dmg rigs would get you most bang for the buck. Whether it's worth it is debatable ofc Laughing

truckdriverED
Posted - 2009.01.30 16:50:00 - [110]
 

falcons.. everything else.. All of the ships are overrated except for the real crap ships.. The only thing that you need is numbers. ugh

The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
Posted - 2009.01.30 17:03:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Kaileen Starsong
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Terianna Eri

I can't get the Harbinger over 926/934 (AN Multi/Conflag) without faction gear and officer implants - max skills, 5% damage, 5% RoF, hammer IIs, 3x HS, overloaded heavy pulse lasers... don't know what I'm missing.


Probably nothing, the "1000 DPS" figure was just a guess on my part. Smile


When 3 damage mods is not enough - use 4 of them Laughing That said, while it's pretty inefficient, you gain around 40 DPS, lower/higher depending on ship ofc. Technically I can see some cases where such kind of fit or 3 damage mods+rof/dmg rigs would get you most bang for the buck. Whether it's worth it is debatable ofc Laughing


Well it is quite possible to fit 4 Damagemods on a Raven\Mealstorm in realistic setups. Would even do this on my Mega if the stacking penalty wouldn´t be this harsh, since my 3 MFS fit allways feels a bit like it is lacking DPS(even with Imps and Large Blaster Spec 5 Embarassed).

Xori Ruscuv
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2009.01.30 17:07:00 - [112]
 

Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 30/01/2009 17:11:48
Not-so-stealthy "BAWWWWW I don't know how to fly Caldari in PVP" thread.
Rolling Eyes

Harbingers are amazing, however. Imo, Zealots and Ishtars are overrated/overestimated. It's not that they're bad, obviously. It's just that if you can fly either of those, you can probably fly something else that will fill the job better.

Stab Wounds
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2009.01.30 17:15:00 - [113]
 

hurricane > other BC. Drake is gay.

Kaileen Starsong
Amarr
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.01.30 17:17:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: The Djego

Well it is quite possible to fit 4 Damagemods on a Raven\Mealstorm in realistic setups. Would even do this on my Mega if the stacking penalty wouldn´t be this harsh, since my 3 MFS fit allways feels a bit like it is lacking DPS(even with Imps and Large Blaster Spec 5 Embarassed).


Yeah, well, could add Sleipnir, shield-buffered Hurricane/Harbinger to the list. DPS always leaves some to be desired, just that you sacrifice too much with armor-tanked ships(I'd consider putting rof+dmg rigs on 3xgyro Hurri though, trimarks are meh on BCs) :)

John McHauler
Posted - 2009.01.30 18:33:00 - [115]
 

Ahh. I love me the hurricane.

I went toe to toe with a HAM drake and Won... sooo what does that tell you?

The HAM drake is a pretty awesome ship.. but so is the Hurricane. I'm a big fan of the Dual Webbing.

I also favor Dual Neuts instead of the extra missile DPS. It hurts ships in a number of different ways, and Benefits the cane's cap-less weapons.

With Dual nuets you still do 700-ish DPS with RF EMP, more when overheated, and you'll tear harbingers apart, and still be able to Drop HAM drakes if you fly properly.



James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2009.01.30 18:36:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: Damon Runyon
My Rapier's been very disappointing lately - mainly due to web nerf, but also because I get jammed so often these days.

Fitting one ECCM is fair enough, but fitting two seems likely to kill most decent/accepted Minmatar fits.


Have you tried target painters? They're actually rather awesome.

Glach Duwat
Posted - 2009.01.30 18:40:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Damon Runyon
My Rapier's been very disappointing lately - mainly due to web nerf, but also because I get jammed so often these days.

Fitting one ECCM is fair enough, but fitting two seems likely to kill most decent/accepted Minmatar fits.


Have you tried target painters? They're actually rather awesome.


speaking of Rapiers and Target painters... on a Solo set up, would you go two webs, or 1 web and 1 TP?

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2009.01.30 19:08:00 - [118]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 30/01/2009 19:16:54
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 30/01/2009 17:11:48
Not-so-stealthy "BAWWWWW I don't know how to fly Caldari in PVP" thread.
Rolling Eyes

Harbingers are amazing, however. Imo, Zealots and Ishtars are overrated/overestimated. It's not that they're bad, obviously. It's just that if you can fly either of those, you can probably fly something else that will fill the job better.


Depends on what you're doing really.

Also, arbitrators are overrated. Not because they are bad for any reason, but because 4 TDs > 3 Bonused TDs. People go around saying how good they are for their ewar when a celestis makes a better TD ship than they do.(as does a caracal

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.01.30 20:15:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Zealots are overrated

brb locator agent MadMadMadMadMadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very Mad

Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
Posted - 2009.01.30 21:06:00 - [120]
 

Edited by: Vrabac on 30/01/2009 21:08:20
Originally by: John McHauler
I went toe to toe with a HAM drake and Won... sooo what does that tell you?


I did too, but was his problem not mine. Smile

Also went toe to toe with a RF EMP using dual neut hurri in a harb and won... sooo etc Razz

The main issue behind using neuts for me is the fact that most targets will die way before they kick in. Cap boosterless absos or similar cases aside, I prefer just doing more damage since that's the main idea behind such fit.

Not to say each approach hasn't got its good and bad sides and no doubt neuts are useful in a number of ways, especially now with web nerf and amount of ABing scraming assault frigs running about.


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