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duckydax
Posted - 2009.01.24 08:28:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: duckydax on 24/01/2009 08:33:49
Edited by: duckydax on 24/01/2009 08:30:58
which would u go for? remain with the harbinger or train for the zealot.....its a choice between more high slots to defense...need comments and advice pls

Gneeznow
Minmatar
Ship spinners inc
Posted - 2009.01.24 08:28:00 - [2]
 


Fifi LeFume
No Trademark
Posted - 2009.01.24 08:36:00 - [3]
 

Zealot for agility and range, harbinger for price, slightly more dps, and abit more tank

duckydax
Posted - 2009.01.24 08:40:00 - [4]
 

which is mre fun to use?

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.01.24 09:26:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Terianna Eri on 24/01/2009 21:01:42
Originally by: duckydax
which is mre fun to use?

Personal preference.

The choice between harb and zealot obviously depends on what you want to do with it. The harb is cheaper, tankier, hits harder, and is more flexible. It has 4 mids, a spare high, and a drone bay, which makes it well-suited to solo or small gang work or as a good solid ship in larger gangs - cannon fodder, basically.

The zealot does many things that the harbinger does, but faster and not as hard. It locks faster, it gets into range faster, it keeps range better, it can put its damage on targets faster, it can change the focus of its damage faster (doesn't have to keep track of drones). It's a good ship for support in small-large gangs and it can solo if you want to.

The harbinger is good for slugging it out with ships of its own weight class and one step above and below.

The zealot is good for picking off key enemy ships and tacklers from moderate range, while being close enough and having good enough damage to deal heavy damage to primary targets.

Personally I prefer the Zealot. It's much more responsive than the Harbinger and I feel like a zealot flown by a competent, aware pilot who looks to deal as much damage to the enemy fleet as they can is more valuable than the same pilot in a harbinger slugging it out at close range.

It also looks better Cool

Ctp Hawkeye
Caldari
Vice And Valour
Posted - 2009.01.24 09:35:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: duckydax
which is mre fun to use?

Personal preference.

The choice between harb and zealot obviously depends on what you want to do with it. The harb is cheaper, tankier, hits harder, and is more flexible. It has 4 mids, a spare high, and a drone bay, which makes it well-suited to solo or small gang work or as a good solid ship in larger gangs - cannon fodder, basically.

The zealot does many things that the harbinger does, but faster and not as quickly. It locks faster, it gets into range faster, it keeps range better, it can put its damage on targets faster, it can change the focus of its damage faster (doesn't have to keep track of drones). It's a good ship for support in small-large gangs and it can solo if you want to.

The harbinger is good for slugging it out with ships of its own weight class and one step above and below.

The zealot is good for picking off key enemy ships and tacklers from moderate range, while being close enough and having good enough damage to deal heavy damage to primary targets.

Personally I prefer the Zealot. It's much more responsive than the Harbinger and I feel like a zealot flown by a competent, aware pilot who looks to deal as much damage to the enemy fleet as they can is more valuable than the same pilot in a harbinger slugging it out at close range.

It also looks better Cool


This.

If you wanna brawl at 500m, fly the harb. If you wanna be nippy and range contrl at 320-30k, fly the zealot.

Xori Ruscuv
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2009.01.24 11:29:00 - [7]
 

The Harbinger is VERY cost effective.
And it has a drone bay for those ogodiwishihadafalconalt moments. ugh

I love my Harbinger.

Amy Crest
Kermit Space Industies
Posted - 2009.01.24 11:30:00 - [8]
 

For ceptor/dictor suppression, the zealot is king. For general use, Harbinger.

El Torrent
Paxton Industries
Posted - 2009.01.24 11:45:00 - [9]
 

I rather like the Alpha of my beam harbinger (950 or so, at 70km+ range)

Xori Ruscuv
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2009.01.24 11:55:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 24/01/2009 11:57:56
Originally by: Amy Crest
For ceptor/dictor suppression, the zealot is king. For general use, Harbinger.

I take your point, except that:
- The Zealot can carry no Warrior IIs
- The Harbinger has an extra midslot

I understand that you're talking about mid-range support, but a Harbinger is far more likely to disable an inty, no?

I'm really, seriously, a Harbinger fanboi though. I think it's one of the best ships in the game. Cool

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.01.24 12:37:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
I understand that you're talking about mid-range support, but a Harbinger is far more likely to disable an inty, no?

I'm really, seriously, a Harbinger fanboi though. I think it's one of the best ships in the game. Cool

A harbinger is more likely to disable an inty that gets into close range, since it fits a neut and a web.
A Zealot is more likely to wipe it out of the sky before it gets into range at all Cool

They're both great ships though

Xori Ruscuv
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2009.01.24 12:42:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Terianna Eri
A harbinger is more likely to disable an inty that gets into close range, since it fits a neut and a web.
A Zealot is more likely to wipe it out of the sky before it gets into range at all Cool

They're both great ships though

Ah yes. Understood.

Yeah, both tremendous ships.

Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
Posted - 2009.01.24 13:03:00 - [13]
 

Zealot is a mobile mid-range damage platform while Harbi is a close range balanced platform with decent mid range capabilities. For general use, Harbi is often preferable. It's also very cost effective (cheap and fully insurable). But Zealot of course is just cool.

DarkonRhoe
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.01.24 13:09:00 - [14]
 

Zealot:
+
Faster
Agile
range
-
Barely any tank
Always primary in gangs

Harbi
+
Damge
Tank
Price
-
range
slow


that is it pretty much. most Zealot I encounter though are glass cannons with no tank fitted and only HS and TE in the low slots. Harbis are often plated or have a active tank (not often)

But have thier uses. and Zealot makes a excelent ratter in shansha space :D fast good damge at good ranges and it can fit a mar+ab not good for pvp though a rat fit.

Xori Ruscuv
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2009.01.24 14:11:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: DarkonRhoe
Zealot:
...
Always primary in gangs

This is actually a pretty big deal. Getting the enemy to underestimate you is key to actually getting a good fight. If you start showing falcon+zealot+rapier, they start getting scared. If you show some BCs, they might make the mistake of reporting "... and assorted BCs" in their vent, you get a fight, and SURPRISE, your BCs are omgwtfdpsmachines.

Once again the disclaimer, though: I am an absolute Habinger fanboi.

Dreadpilot Roberts
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.01.24 14:31:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Dreadpilot Roberts on 24/01/2009 14:31:43
For short roams, dps support, or breaking camps get heavy pulse harbinger.
For roaming in fast hac gangs through hostile space get zealot.
For snipning get zealot.

They both pwn, zealot is slightly better at all the roles except that pricetag makes u sigh when it pops

DarkonRhoe
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.01.24 14:32:00 - [17]
 

btw i forgot:

Solo? get a navy omen :D these things pwn and those 5 light warrior II drones are great to (or ecm if you whish) my navy omen can take on some BC with ease.

Dreadpilot Roberts
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.01.24 14:37:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: DarkonRhoe
btw i forgot:

Solo? get a navy omen :D these things pwn and those 5 light warrior II drones are great to (or ecm if you whish) my navy omen can take on some BC with ease.


Only thing those are good for is prolly killing amarr npcs. The fact that it can take on "some" BC with ease doesnt say much about it. In zealot u can engage any kind of BCs, kill most or tackle some until help arrives. Btw pricetag on that omen navy doesnt justify lack of tank lack of pg, in short almost total lack of survivability. Faction ships are for peeps that dont have the skills to fly t2. Shocked

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.01.24 14:42:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Originally by: DarkonRhoe
Zealot:
...
Always primary in gangs

This is actually a pretty big deal. Getting the enemy to underestimate you is key to actually getting a good fight. If you start showing falcon+zealot+rapier, they start getting scared. If you show some BCs, they might make the mistake of reporting "... and assorted BCs" in their vent, you get a fight, and SURPRISE, your BCs are omgwtfdpsmachines.

Once again the disclaimer, though: I am an absolute Habinger fanboi.

Maybe the people I'm fighting against just suck (not inconceivable, since I mostly do FW and good pilots are rare) but my zealot tends to be pretty survivable. 35-45km range makes a half-decent tank.

I've definitely found it to be more survivable than a harbinger which has to be a lot closer to the fight and is a lot easier to hit.

YMMV

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.01.24 14:56:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Dreadpilot Roberts
Originally by: DarkonRhoe
btw i forgot:

Solo? get a navy omen :D these things pwn and those 5 light warrior II drones are great to (or ecm if you whish) my navy omen can take on some BC with ease.


Only thing those are good for is prolly killing amarr npcs. The fact that it can take on "some" BC with ease doesnt say much about it. In zealot u can engage any kind of BCs, kill most or tackle some until help arrives. Btw pricetag on that omen navy doesnt justify lack of tank lack of pg, in short almost total lack of survivability. Faction ships are for peeps that dont have the skills to fly t2. Shocked

You don't fly the navy omen because of its ability against BCs, you fly it because it has a utility highslot for a neut and a 25m3 drone bay for warriors or light ECM - you fly the Navy Omen because it can mount a credible defense against frigates.

Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2009.01.24 19:17:00 - [21]
 

If you want to shoot things at 0-25km range. Harbinger. Cap Injector!

If you want to shoot things past 25km, Zealot.

duckydax
Posted - 2009.01.25 01:17:00 - [22]
 

what makes the zealot more range effective when theyre just both fitted with the same guns as to the harby?

Dreadpilot Roberts
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.01.25 01:34:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: duckydax
what makes the zealot more range effective when theyre just both fitted with the same guns as to the harby?


I dunno ... maybe the 10% optimal bonus per level ? Shocked

And to answer the navy omen crap ... u fly navy omen just to lose a crapload of isk extremely fast and to have a shiny loss mail. Defense against frigates can be done just as well in a caracal with assault missile launchers.

loldongs III
Perkone
Posted - 2009.01.25 04:22:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Dreadpilot Roberts
Originally by: duckydax
what makes the zealot more range effective when theyre just both fitted with the same guns as to the harby?


I dunno ... maybe the 10% optimal bonus per level ? Shocked

And to answer the navy omen crap ... u fly navy omen just to lose a crapload of isk extremely fast and to have a shiny loss mail. Defense against frigates can be done just as well in a caracal with assault missile launchers.


Wow props for such a bad answer- the navy omen can out damage the zealot and has the versatility of a drone bay, but it trades some turret dps and range. The navy omen is one of the few good faction cruisers. It also costs about as much as a zealot. Or at least it did.

It's not all about what is good against ship type x, versatility is cool too.

loldongs III
Perkone
Posted - 2009.01.25 04:31:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: loldongs III on 25/01/2009 04:32:47
Also the harbinger is awesome and is better than the zealot in a lot of things like drones, tank, mids, versatility. With the harbinger you can decide to use amarr navy multifrequency or conflagration against a drake or other missile spamming ship or stay outside of web range with scorch if you are going against a blaster or auto cannon ship.

The zealot is a good fleet ship because you can use it for large fights in range centric fleets such as in pos ops. The zealot can also lay down very respectable damage outside of web or disruptor range if you are with a roaming fleet. A major problem with the zealot is if anything gets you inside of their web/scramble range then you are pretty much done because you lack tank and drones (for frigates).

Vonlutt
Amarr
Posted - 2009.01.25 09:25:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Vonlutt on 25/01/2009 09:26:00
The zealot is a good solo gank ship if you outfit it right though, no?

Jodie Amille
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2009.01.25 11:37:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Vonlutt
Edited by: Vonlutt on 25/01/2009 09:26:00
The zealot is a good solo gank ship if you outfit it right though, no?


No, not anymore. As soon as any frigate gets under your guns they're invincible to you even if you have a web fitted

Originally by: loldongs III
Originally by: Dreadpilot Roberts
Originally by: duckydax
what makes the zealot more range effective when theyre just both fitted with the same guns as to the harby?


I dunno ... maybe the 10% optimal bonus per level ? Shocked

And to answer the navy omen crap ... u fly navy omen just to lose a crapload of isk extremely fast and to have a shiny loss mail. Defense against frigates can be done just as well in a caracal with assault missile launchers.


Wow props for such a bad answer- the navy omen can out damage the zealot and has the versatility of a drone bay, but it trades some turret dps and range. The navy omen is one of the few good faction cruisers. It also costs about as much as a zealot. Or at least it did.

It's not all about what is good against ship type x, versatility is cool too.


It does everything the harb does, but worse and costs 2.5x as much.

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.01.25 13:58:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Jodie Amille
Originally by: Vonlutt
Edited by: Vonlutt on 25/01/2009 09:26:00
The zealot is a good solo gank ship if you outfit it right though, no?


No, not anymore. As soon as any frigate gets under your guns they're invincible to you even if you have a web fitted

I actually lost a Crusader to a Zealot that fit Web/Scram/AB Embarassed

Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2009.01.25 15:10:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: duckydax
what makes the zealot more range effective when theyre just both fitted with the same guns as to the harby?


The optimal range bonus the Zealot gets from the ship bonuses.

Brego Tralowski
Galactic Extensive Technologies
SUB ROSA ALLIANCE
Posted - 2009.01.27 17:00:00 - [30]
 

I'm an avid BC fan and often fly the hurricane and Harbinger. I like the Harbingers armor tank, DPS and price tag. Plus the great addition of the drone bay for pesky frigs and intys.

I'm Gallente and only recently started using Amarr BCs and have to say I prefer them over the Gallente ones, even with modest skill in Amarr weaponry it still packs a punch. I have seen ships warp to the belt im currently sat in and get out of the way very quick.

The ships reputation is great and most people recognise it as a tough nut to crack.

Great ship.


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