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blankseplocked Tell me again why stealing salvage is ok?
 
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Rainson Arrvax
Minmatar
Selectus Pravus Lupus
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:12:00 - [1]
 

I spend over an hour on a mission and then have some ass steal half the salvage. Of course...the jerkoff is in an NPC corp so I have no recourse.

Simple solution: If you're in an NPC corp taking salvage makes you attackable. If you're not then it doesn't. At least then I can wardeck you.


Schalac
Caldari
Apocalypse Reign
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:14:00 - [2]
 

So we all can laugh at you for taking so long in a mission and then steal your salvage.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:14:00 - [3]
 

Because he wasted his time?

In empire i cant even get someone to salvage my AE lvl 4 when i ask for it in several channels (for me basicly only mission i sometimes bother salvaging).

Kale Kold
Mindless Griefing
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:14:00 - [4]
 

Ahhh... carebears tears! yum yum.

Davina Braben
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:17:00 - [5]
 

If you didn't salvage it yet it isn't your salvage Laughing

Abrazzar
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:18:00 - [6]
 

It is ok because you already got rewarded for doing the mission (ISK, LPs, Standing) and for creating the wrecks (Bounty, Loot Rights) and the salvager is investing the same amount of time for salvaging as you would, plus an investment in time and ISK to even find any location worth salvaging. Considering that you are guaranteed to know the whereabouts of sizable amounts of wrecks you are already in an advantage over the freelance salvager. Consider yourself lucky.

Salliene
Gallente
Paktu Sjet Armada
Galactic System Lords Alliance
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:19:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Rainson Arrvax
I spend over an hour on a mission and then have some ass steal half the salvage. Of course...the jerkoff is in an NPC corp so I have no recourse.

Simple solution: If you're in an NPC corp taking salvage makes you attackable. If you're not then it doesn't. At least then I can wardeck you.




It helps build forum traffic.


H Lecter
Gallente
The Black Rabbits Academy
The Gurlstas Associates
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:20:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Rainson Arrvax
I spend over an hour on a mission and then have some ass steal half the salvage. Of course...the jerkoff is in an NPC corp so I have no recourse.


You got it right m8, it's the salvage like in 'anybody's salvage' not like in 'my' salvage.

If you think that salvaging makes you richer than missions you can always start a career as a ninja salvager yourself.


Rainson Arrvax
Minmatar
Selectus Pravus Lupus
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:22:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Kale Kold
Ahhh... carebears tears! yum yum.


Ah, the cheer of the ass! Care Bear Care Bear! Like living your life as a 12 year old is some great human jump in human evolution. You win, you are a superior human being and so strong...sitting there behind your computer screen. Oh, you make me so hot. You're power is sooooo intoxicating. Oh, tell me how much better you are than those of us with different goals in a game. Oh yes...yes...yes...

Boy, that was great. Thanks for spending the time on someone so pathetic!


Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:22:00 - [10]
 

Salvage, noun, to collect discarded or refused material.

It's trash. If you don't sweep up your trash as you go, you can't feel hard done by when someone else does.

Salliene
Gallente
Paktu Sjet Armada
Galactic System Lords Alliance
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:25:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Rainson Arrvax
Originally by: Kale Kold
Ahhh... carebears tears! yum yum.


Ah, the cheer of the ass! Care Bear Care Bear! Like living your life as a 12 year old is some great human jump in human evolution. You win, you are a superior human being and so strong...sitting there behind your computer screen. Oh, you make me so hot. You're power is sooooo intoxicating. Oh, tell me how much better you are than those of us with different goals in a game. Oh yes...yes...yes...

Boy, that was great. Thanks for spending the time on someone so pathetic!




Do you act this way when someone takes one of your pawns in chess (assuming you know how to play)?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:27:00 - [12]
 

"Tell me again why stealing salvage is ok?"

Because it's not "EVE : Chronicles of Riddick - 'You keep what you kill' "...

Rainson Arrvax
Minmatar
Selectus Pravus Lupus
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:28:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: H Lecter
Originally by: Rainson Arrvax
I spend over an hour on a mission and then have some ass steal half the salvage. Of course...the jerkoff is in an NPC corp so I have no recourse.


You got it right m8, it's the salvage like in 'anybody's salvage' not like in 'my' salvage.

If you think that salvaging makes you richer than missions you can always start a career as a ninja salvager yourself.



I'm really speaking to the issue of no recourse. If you steal a can I have immediate recourse. That makes up for the fact that you just create an alt an put him in an NPC corp. With salvage there is NO recourse at all. That's what wrong, not that someone can take the salvage.

WarlockX
Amarr
Free Trade Corp
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:28:00 - [14]
 

open up the dictionary and look up the word salvage.
Then you'll see why it's not yours

Rainson Arrvax
Minmatar
Selectus Pravus Lupus
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:31:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Salliene
Originally by: Rainson Arrvax
Originally by: Kale Kold
Ahhh... carebears tears! yum yum.


Ah, the cheer of the ass! Care Bear Care Bear! Like living your life as a 12 year old is some great human jump in human evolution. You win, you are a superior human being and so strong...sitting there behind your computer screen. Oh, you make me so hot. You're power is sooooo intoxicating. Oh, tell me how much better you are than those of us with different goals in a game. Oh yes...yes...yes...

Boy, that was great. Thanks for spending the time on someone so pathetic!




Do you act this way when someone takes one of your pawns in chess (assuming you know how to play)?



OMG, that's so funny. I can't believe that God didn't break the mold after you. Please, post some more about your greatness and how everyone else is not worth the air they take up. Its still soooo hot. Come on, I need it.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:31:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Rainson Arrvax
If you steal a can I have immediate recourse.

Yeah, about that - it's a relatively recent change (2-ish years), which has caused the side that was supposedly helped by it MORE total problems than before they HAD a "recourse".
If salvaging becomes an act of agression, expect "mission busters" of the future to not only take your salvage, but also LOOT too (because there's no additional risk), and also expect them to come back in a PvP-fit ship to bust your balls as soon as you destroy their "thief" cheap ship.

Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:32:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Brainless Bimbo on 13/01/2009 16:33:58
i take any salvage thats available, noob ships at gates, battlecruisers at stations, crap in complexs, its just litter as far as i'm concerned waiting to be cleared, but finding mission locations is like work, no way dude.

If you wanted the salvage that badly why didn't you fit a salvager to a top slot and salvage whilst you kill the next one, also don't do missison in busy locations if you want to avoid being probed down.


forgot the don't lol


Gunnanmon
Gallente
PURPLE.
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:32:00 - [18]
 

Because CCP said so.

Camilo Cienfuegos
Earned In Blood
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:36:00 - [19]
 

Quote:
I'm really speaking to the issue of no recourse.


Live in highsec and of course you're not allowed to shoot people who pick up the "trash". Move to lowsec or zerosec, and you can shoot whoever you like.

That's the bargain, like it or lump it.

Rainson Arrvax
Minmatar
Selectus Pravus Lupus
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:37:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Rainson Arrvax
If you steal a can I have immediate recourse.

Yeah, about that - it's a relatively recent change (2-ish years), which has caused the side that was supposedly helped by it MORE total problems than before they HAD a "recourse".
If salvaging becomes an act of agression, expect "mission busters" of the future to not only take your salvage, but also LOOT too (because there's no additional risk), and also expect them to come back in a PvP-fit ship to bust your balls as soon as you destroy their "thief" cheap ship.



You know, that's a really good point. Thanks for the well thought out and adult response.

Rainson Arrvax
Minmatar
Selectus Pravus Lupus
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:38:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Brainless Bimbo
Edited by: Brainless Bimbo on 13/01/2009 16:33:58
i take any salvage thats available, noob ships at gates, battlecruisers at stations, crap in complexs, its just litter as far as i'm concerned waiting to be cleared, but finding mission locations is like work, no way dude.

If you wanted the salvage that badly why didn't you fit a salvager to a top slot and salvage whilst you kill the next one, also don't do missison in busy locations if you want to avoid being probed down.

forgot the don't lol



Fair points. Thanks.

Khemul Zula
Amarr
Keisen Trade League
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:39:00 - [22]
 

Basically all the reasons listed so far are half right.

Once long long before salvage you could steal without recourse. This caused much whining so CCP added can ownership and aggro recourse. This caused much whining when players adapted can baiting.

So you see, CCP learned that no matter what they do, someone is going to ***** about it. Why bother to change it? Razz

Funny thing is a lot of the gankers would love ownership rights on salvage. I think the mission runners should consider that one for a moment. Twisted Evil

5pinDizzy
Amarr
Pillow Fighters Inc
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:39:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Davina Braben
If you didn't salvage it yet it isn't your salvage Laughing


Doesn't belong to him when he picks it up anyway, all Eve Online core data stuffs belongs to CCP, on their serverfarm.

Which they don't really own either, as the local authorities/council/government just allow you to use it for certain things and stay there for a certain time in exchange for pieces of paper.

Which they don't really own either, because we're all born unto this world long after mother earth had come to be to provide for us.

But it doesn't all belong to mother earth either, as we must look furthur outwood, for the creator of all that we see!

We cannot seem to find the creator of all that we see, so we'll just borrow all his stuff as we see fit for now...

...and that include your wreck. :p

Rainson Arrvax
Minmatar
Selectus Pravus Lupus
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:39:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos
Quote:
I'm really speaking to the issue of no recourse.


Live in highsec and of course you're not allowed to shoot people who pick up the "trash". Move to lowsec or zerosec, and you can shoot whoever you like.

That's the bargain, like it or lump it.


Haha...ok...that's a good perspective! Good point.

Khlitouris RegusII
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:40:00 - [25]
 

Because salvaging isnt stealing!

Hamoroid Hangcock
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:43:00 - [26]
 

There is no such thing as stealing loot or salvageVery Happy

Concorduck
Gallente
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:44:00 - [27]
 

Because someone has to clean up all that mess...

DjLowballer
Amarr
Firebird Squadron
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:47:00 - [28]
 

Because they took the time to learn how to probe, come find you, bookmark, come back, learn to salvage, bring salvage ship, and put in the effort.


Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:58:00 - [29]
 

It's not stealing if it's not yours in the first place and CCP has made very clear that salvage (much like ore from asteroids) isn't yours until it's in your cargo hold.

CCP Prism X


Gallente
C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2009.01.13 17:07:00 - [30]
 

Why is stealing salvage OK?
It's not.
It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.

If you're surprised as to why the server does not consider it your stuff, it's because it's a mini profession designed for people who want to roam and look for salvage, not to further increase the revenue from mission grinding.. I doubt anyone with a perspective thinks we need to high-sec increase mission grinding any further.

Simple solution to the non-issue.
Please don't take this as any bashing just for suggesting ideas. I have nothing against brainstorming on the forums. However, I'm going to let you in on a little CCP non-secret which is: "NPE". Wink
EVE is a really hostile game. We love how hostile it is.. we never meant for it to be a breeze. However, it's also accepted that, on top of the intended complexity, the tools and rules you play with/by aren't highly intuative. You are suggesting a dual functionality.. one for newbies and another for vets (of course you did not say that, however just because some people chill in newb corps and ain't newbs doesn't mean we should punish the new players) and to compound the inherent confusion in that the newbie functionality is more hostile and more open to griefing than the veteran functionality. It shouldn't be much different.. and if it had to be it should be the other way around. Wink


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