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Murina
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.01.16 00:15:00 - [421]
 

Edited by: Murina on 16/01/2009 00:16:24
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong


Sorry but a mixed fleet is less skill. Why? Because it CAN kill any encounter as long as it is big enough. Yeah good skill. We all know blobbing is the best tactic to win, sad thing is that you are proud of it.


I never said anything about blobbing i was refering to fighting equal and greater numbers. But as per usual you try to troll and manipulate your way out of a ass kicking...Laughing


Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Solo pvpers win alot of engagements even though they have non optimal fits and non optimal engagement terms.


Solo pvpers roam around looking for ratters (you know the guys with no tackle/web lol) or sit waiting travelers.....so real hard targets, and they still lose ship when faced with summat fitted differently that they expected.Laughing

A good pvp gang roams around looking for or provoking corps/alliances into sending pvp fitted gangs after them, then using team work and skill to kick ass.

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2009.01.16 00:20:00 - [422]
 

Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 16/01/2009 00:25:36
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
The core point still holds if you fit one single sensor booster. Allthough I'm not surpised that you are not capable of understanding this. One single SB will help to certain degree against 1000 damps. It will boost your lock range by noticable amount.


Sure and this degree would be...? Oh let me tell you, in our nice malediction example that is about 4.5 km. Niiiice target range!!!!! Laughing

And bear in mind that dampeners are THE worst form of EW at the moment, god help you if you start comparing trackign disruptor effectiveness, where ONE tracking disruptor can't be countered by any number of tracking modules.

Quote:

One ECCM will not do you jack good against 1000 ECM. DO YOU UNDERSTAND? IS THIS DIFFICULT?


It will. Actually the more ECM that are thrown at you the better an ECCM module gets. For 1000 ECMs Your chances of NOT BEING JAMMED improve around 10^32 times if you have an ECCM fitted. Laughing

Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
Posted - 2009.01.16 00:22:00 - [423]
 

Originally by: Murina


A good pvp gang roams around looking for or provoking corps/alliances into sending pvp fitted gangs after them, then using team work and skill to kick ass.


But that is not what you do.

Murina
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.01.16 00:26:00 - [424]
 

Edited by: Murina on 16/01/2009 00:27:20
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Originally by: Murina


A good pvp gang roams around looking for or provoking corps/alliances into sending pvp fitted gangs after them, then using team work and skill to kick ass.


But that is not what you do.


Its exactly what i do and have done for a very long time, its the reason i play eve pal. A solo noob and carebear ganker like you could never understand high spec pvp and the naivety of your posting makes that obvious.

Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
Posted - 2009.01.16 00:27:00 - [425]
 

Originally by: Murina

Its exactly what i do and have done for a very long time, a solo noob and carebear ganker like you could never understand high spec pvp and the naivety of your posting makes that obvious.


No one is buying your "skill". Why? You don't have anything to show. Empty perpetual babble. Rolling Eyes

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2009.01.16 00:29:00 - [426]
 

*snip - Mitnal*

Murina
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.01.16 00:31:00 - [427]
 

Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Originally by: Murina

Its exactly what i do and have done for a very long time, a solo noob and carebear ganker like you could never understand high spec pvp and the naivety of your posting makes that obvious.

ad hominem


Any body reading your posts sees how noob you are i do not need to point it out, il just stay on topic i think.Cool

So tell us more about how you "perma" jam 3-4 BS in your falcon, or how you think its a good idea to split fit racial's between 2 falcons in 10 man gangs.....LaughingLaughingLaughing

Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
Posted - 2009.01.16 00:32:00 - [428]
 

*snip - Mitnal*

Murina
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.01.16 00:36:00 - [429]
 

Edited by: Murina on 16/01/2009 00:38:43
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
*snip - Mitnal*


If you cannot discount the posting try to discount the poster hey pal????....

Come on tell us more about you "perma" jamming all those multiple BS in your falcon again i need a laugh....LaughingLaughing

Christari Zuborov
Amarr
Ore Mongers
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2009.01.16 00:38:00 - [430]
 

*snip - Mitnal*

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2009.01.16 00:45:00 - [431]
 

*snip - Mitnal*

Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
Posted - 2009.01.16 00:47:00 - [432]
 

Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Truth is, you are a small button presser.


Truth is that you have no skill. You think I'm gonna be bullied by your little special people squad? Don't make me laugh. Laughing

CCP Mitnal


C C P
Posted - 2009.01.16 00:48:00 - [433]
 

Cleaned.

Please stay on-topic, discussing other players' posting style is not on-topic.

Jonas Barcal
Caldari
Posted - 2009.01.16 00:54:00 - [434]
 

Originally by: Amira Shadowsong

Truth is that you have no skill.


Truth is skill doesn't matter if you lose..

MMO bring friends solo might not be dead yet but we're trying Very Happy

Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
Posted - 2009.01.16 00:55:00 - [435]
 

Originally by: Jonas Barcal
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong

Truth is that you have no skill.


Truth is skill doesn't matter if you lose..

MMO bring friends solo might not be dead yet but we're trying Very Happy


I don't lose. My kill stats are quite positive.

Jonas Barcal
Caldari
Posted - 2009.01.16 00:56:00 - [436]
 

Originally by: Amira Shadowsong


I don't lose. My kill stats are quite positive.


Give it time. The numbers game gets them all in the end

Murina
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.01.16 01:00:00 - [437]
 

Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Originally by: Jonas Barcal
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong

Truth is that you have no skill.


Truth is skill doesn't matter if you lose..

MMO bring friends solo might not be dead yet but we're trying Very Happy


I don't lose. My kill stats are quite positive.


Solo ganking nubs and carebears who do not even have tackle fitted so even if you get into trouble you can bail is hardly summat to be proud of, or particularly skillful.....

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2009.01.16 01:01:00 - [438]
 

Originally by: Amira Shadowsong

I don't lose. My kill stats are quite positive.


Positive as in ganking a lot of people to get a good K/D ratio? When was the last time you won an even fight? Let me guess, you don't even remember it... Laughing

Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
Posted - 2009.01.16 01:03:00 - [439]
 

Originally by: Murina


Solo ganking nubs and carebears who do not even have tackle fitted so even if you get into trouble you can bail is hardly summat to be proud of, or particularly skillful.....


Wait so solo is harder then what you do? You sit in a gang of 20 and kill one ship. Humor me and show me 10 of your kills that is not a gank. You can't. Why? Because you are full of it. GO away. Rolling Eyes

Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
Posted - 2009.01.16 01:04:00 - [440]
 

Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong

I don't lose. My kill stats are quite positive.


Positive as in ganking a lot of people to get a good K/D ratio? When was the last time you won an even fight? Let me guess, you don't even remember it... Laughing


Uhm I win even fights. How about you? Show us 10 even fights. Come on, with several years of playing you must be able to show 10 leet kills. You sure talk like you have alot of them. Show us your skill. You can't I bet. Why? Because you are full of it. Go play tough amongst special people, you might succeed if you are lucky. Here, you are out of luck. Rolling Eyes

Murina
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.01.16 01:08:00 - [441]
 

Originally by: Amira Shadowsong


Wait so solo is harder then what you do?



Nope solo is target selection...thats it.

Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
You sit in a gang of 20 and kill one ship.


Actually 20 man gangs are a bit larger than i like, upto a max of around 10 is preferable as with the right setup it has good alpha/dps for hit and run against larger gangs while also not being to blobby and uncontrollable.

Murina
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.01.16 01:17:00 - [442]
 

Edited by: Murina on 16/01/2009 01:21:54

Originally by: Amira Shadowsong


Wait so solo is harder then what you do?


No solo is math and fitting for a specific target/ship type...here listen to somebody who claims to be a expert...WinkLaughing

Originally by: Amira Shadowsong


This is a cruiser killer fit and it has a fighting chance against ceptors aswell.

I know how to ****ing fit a pure anti inty crusader.

Problem is that the anti inty fit is absolutely crap against cruisers and AFs.


CoolLaughing

Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
Posted - 2009.01.16 03:07:00 - [443]
 

Originally by: Murina


No solo is math and fitting for a specific target/ship type...here listen to somebody who claims to be a expert...WinkLaughing




My records are in the open for everyone to see. Unlike your leet skills that we only "hear" about. You fail troll.

Murina
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.01.16 09:33:00 - [444]
 

Edited by: Murina on 16/01/2009 09:34:22
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Originally by: Murina


No solo is math and fitting for a specific target/ship type...here listen to somebody who claims to be a expert...WinkLaughing




My records are in the open for everyone to see. Unlike your leet skills that we only "hear" about. You fail troll.


Oh oh...your posting is open to others as well palLaughing...you are the one that needs specific "i-win vs X" fits to get kills, and you call that skill?.

Originally by: Amira Shadowsong


This is a cruiser killer fit and it has a fighting chance against ceptors aswell.

I know how to ****ing fit a pure anti inty crusader.

Problem is that the anti inty fit is absolutely crap against cruisers and AFs.



Very Happy

Camilo Cienfuegos
Earned In Blood
Posted - 2009.01.16 09:41:00 - [445]
 

Originally by: CCP Mitnal
Cleaned.

Please stay on-topic, discussing other players' posting style is not on-topic.


Please just kill this topic. No good can come of it now, as it's long since decended past every form of fallacial argument and the only remaining debaters are completely entrenched with no real desire to discuss the mechanics of ECM and ECM ships at all. There are surely enough rule breaking posts within this thread to justify it, and you'd be doing the rest of us a favour by closing it.

Please, end it now. ECM is far to polarized an issue for some people to discuss.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.01.16 10:15:00 - [446]
 

I doubt that any further value will be obtained from this thread.

Please close it.

Irida Mershkov
Gallente
The Reformed
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2009.01.16 10:35:00 - [447]
 

O Mitnal! Purge this thread!

Jonas Barcal
Caldari
Posted - 2009.01.16 10:37:00 - [448]
 

Agreed time for a close..

mcnuggetlol
Amarr
Via Crucis Inc.
Posted - 2009.01.16 10:38:00 - [449]
 

Let's take as much variety and tactical thinking out of PVP as possible dammit! I WANNA BE ABLE TO CIRCLE AT MY OPTIMAL, PRESS F1 AND NOT HAVE TO THINK ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE UNTIL I'VE WON

Joe Martin
Locus Industries
Posted - 2009.01.16 17:38:00 - [450]
 

Edited by: Joe Martin on 16/01/2009 17:47:11
ECM just makes it that much more thoughtless; I don't even get to press F1 anymore because I can't get a lock on anything.

I have several problems with falcons that have probably been beaten to death, but what the hell. Toss me the bat, I'm going at this horse.

1) The totality of the effect. Every other method of Ewar (which we'll generalize into non-damaging combat abilities) is manageable to a greater or lesser degree through basic game mechanics. ECM removes you from the fight COMPLETELY. Not only is there no active counter for it, but the ONLY counter (ECCM) has no predictable chance to actually work. When jammed there is quite literally NOTHING you can do, aside from watching yourself die while being unable to even attempt to maneuver yourself out of the situation.

1.A) This is not fun. At all. How the idea for a game mechanic that completely and entirely removes people from the fight (other than the ability to die) even got added to the game in the first place is beyond me.

2) ECCM as it stands is NOT an effective counter. ECM is, in and of itself, a benign combat ability (not damaging, as we already went over); a gang of falcons won't be able to do much besides jam targets and then stare at them. The problem is there's no such thing as a gang of falcons. Ships that actually shoot at you are more of a primary concern. People like to suggest, however, that we sacrifice combat effectiveness (and in ships smaller than a battlecruiser hull, a LOT of combat effectiveness via limited slots and lower base sensor strength) on the offchance that an opposing gang may or may not have a falcon. And even then, all that combat effectiveness you gave up doesn't ensure that you won't ever get jammed, and since it is purely a matter of probability, no amount of piloting skill will assist in preventing jams either. What a horrible solution.

3) Risk vs. Reward. Understanding that ECM is too deeply rooted for a lot of people to let go of, I realize that it will probably never be removed from the game in its current incarnation (a shame, really). But EVE at its heart has always been about risk vs reward. Want to fly expensive T2 ships for that extra combat edge? Fine, you'll pay for it AND not get insurance. The problem with the falcon is that there is almost ZERO risk for the monumental impact it has on fights. Again, dead horse here, but they just warp on grid cloaked, uncloak 200km away, align, start jamming. If anything gets too close for comfort, warp off. Even if other ships get a warp in on it he can warp off as soon as they land. Even assuming that someone does get a tackle, they'll just drop all their other targets and jam that guy THEN warp off. Any falcon pilot that's at all paying attention is NOT going to die.

3.A) The low risk we already covered. The reward is also part of the problem. Any given falcon pilot will likely be able effectively remove 3 pilots from the fight. Not only will they be removed from the fight, unable to act or fight back, but they'll get the pleasure of dying along with the rest of their gang. Another problem is that this effect scales massively the less people there are in the gang. The smaller the opposing gang the more effective the falcon is, and a LOT of people have falcons today.

4) "Without ECM the game would be 'whoever has the better tank wins.'" Take a vacation from the forums, delete EFT, and actually PVP for a change. If I really need to explain to you how utterly garbage this argument is then you have no right to be in any PVP mechanics related discussion period.

5) This is not a whine. Play to win, I know; I read all of Sirlin's blogs too. Falcons are always welcome in any gang I fly in. They are a HUGE combat advantage. But that doesn't mean I have to like or necessarily agree with the way they work. I play games, this game in particular, for two reasons: A) To have fun B) To compete. Falcons as they stand are a detriment to both


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