open All Channels
seplocked Ships and Modules
blankseplocked Cruise Raven vs turret bses
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

Naomi Knight
Amarr
Posted - 2009.01.06 16:54:00 - [1]
 

Any reason to use a cruise raven over a turret bs in pvp?
I couldnt find any other than the pilot only has caldari bs + missile skills.
Oh and pls input fits for comparison.

Ralarina
Caldari
Vivicide
Posted - 2009.01.06 16:55:00 - [2]
 

Missiles always hit; you can guarantee that unless they warp off or jam you, that falcon is going to die, as is that pesky intercepto orbitting at 100km at 5000 m/s...

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2009.01.06 16:57:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 06/01/2009 16:57:07
Turrets have the great advantage of instant damage, the cruise missile uses a bit of time to reach its target from far away.

I have found this to be useful:

[Raven, Cruise]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

ECCM - Omni II
ECCM - Omni II
Passive Targeter II
Sensor Booster II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II

Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Bay Loading Accelerator I

Warrior II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5


The passive targeter module is importent here.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.01.06 16:59:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Gypsio III on 06/01/2009 17:01:41
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
The passive targeter module is importent here.


How so? I was under the impression that as soon as you aggressed the target, then the red brackets came up.

Edit - and as for the OP, it's easier to fit a Raven as an anti-ECM platform than a turret BS, and it's probably more useful against closer targets. But if you don't want to do that, and you have BS skills, then just train for a week and jump in a Scorp.

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2009.01.06 17:02:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 06/01/2009 17:03:04
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
The passive targeter module is importent here.


How so? I was under the impression that as soon as you aggressed the target, then the red brackets came up.


Yeah, but then the missiles is under way. And a falcon that sees itself getting targeted might get to jam you first if he know he is getting targeted ;)

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.01.06 17:05:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
The passive targeter module is importent here.


How so? I was under the impression that as soon as you aggressed the target, then the red brackets came up.


Yeah, but then the missiles is under way. And a falcon that sees itself getting targeted might get to jam you first ;)


Right. So the passive targeter actually does nothing. Because you don't sit there with a Falcon locked but not actually firing on it.

Well, that assumes that there's only one Falcon to shoot. I suppose if there's two, you could keep the second passive-targeted until you think you have enough missiles in space to drive off or kill the first... but frankly I'd rather fit another ECCM.

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2009.01.06 17:07:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
The passive targeter module is importent here.


How so? I was under the impression that as soon as you aggressed the target, then the red brackets came up.


Yeah, but then the missiles is under way. And a falcon that sees itself getting targeted might get to jam you first ;)


Right. So the passive targeter actually does nothing. Because you don't sit there with a Falcon locked but not actually firing on it.

Well, that assumes that there's only one Falcon to shoot. I suppose if there's two, you could keep the second passive-targeted until you think you have enough missiles in space to drive off or kill the first... but frankly I'd rather fit another ECCM.


You do fire, thats the point, but the falcon notices later and by the time he sees it missiles is already under way before he can jam you. so either he sits there and takes teh damage, or warps out. Either way its good for your gang.

another ECCM is possible as well, tho its a matter of taste.

Sean Faust
Gallente
Super Batungwaa Ninja Warriors
Waterboard
Posted - 2009.01.06 17:08:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Ralarina
Missiles always hit; you can guarantee that unless they warp off or jam you, that falcon is going to die, as is that pesky intercepto orbitting at 100km at 5000 m/s...


wrong about the interceptor since the missile changes. even with the explosion radius bonus given to them by stealth bombers, cruise missiles will barely scratch the paint on an MWDing ceptor.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.01.06 17:15:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
You do fire, thats the point, but the falcon notices later and by the time he sees it missiles is already under way before he can jam you. so either he sits there and takes teh damage, or warps out. Either way its good for your gang.

another ECCM is possible as well, tho its a matter of taste.


Gotcha. Yeah, I can see the attraction. It would really be nice though if the red brackets didn't come up until the first volley actually hit though... Very Happy

On the other hand, you could load up on more ECCM, then target all the ECM boats. They might then try to jam you rather than your main gang - wasting their ECM against a target with massive sensor strength.

Leeluvv
The Black Ops
Posted - 2009.01.06 17:26:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Leeluvv on 06/01/2009 17:29:14
Are you seriously trying to PvP in a Raven with no tank and no MWD? Your 3x Sensor Boosters imply that you will be at 200+ Km, but good luck getting there without any speed mods unless you will always have someone to warp to 100+ Km from the target. No tank does mean that you will die horribly to both turret and missile snipers.

And as already implied, the Passive targetter is effectively useless. From your max range, the missiles will take at least 20 seconds to reach the target and you'll be flashing red the whole time. And having another Falcon passively targetted that you aren't shooting at doesn't do anything to help you or the fleet.

In large fleets a Raven's missiles won't hit the primary before it is dead, so a turret ship is preferred. Ravens shoot the secondary or support ships, but you will need decent skills if you want to damage cruiser sized ships with Cruise missiles.

Lee

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2009.01.06 17:33:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 06/01/2009 17:35:20
I never said that I was shooting primary, and I never stated where I was using it. You are making assumptions based on nothing.

I also never said it was the best use of a ship ever, but its the better use of cruise missiles imo. If you are going to be closer go torps. Ifa propulsion mod is needed, fit one, but you really should have certin places bookmarked before hand depending on where and what you are gonna fight. A Damage Control II and some neuts will usually enable you to get out ok if you are under attack, however unlikly at that range (if you do not pay attention you might die).

Turret ships is usually the best sniper, that I agree on, and I belive I said so as well.

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2009.01.06 17:48:00 - [12]
 

I think missile ships usually deal more consistent dps than turret bs in PvE. However in PvP, the missile flight time kills any kind of ranged engagement for missile boats. Close range missiles can deal huge amount of damage though, and avoid tracking disruptors and transversal you will encounter when very close.

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2009.01.06 18:32:00 - [13]
 

I agree. Torp Ravens is quite deadly if flown by a skilled pilot.

Naomi Knight
Amarr
Posted - 2009.01.06 18:56:00 - [14]
 

I've thought about this one:

[Raven, anti support copy 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II
Gravimetric Backup Array II

100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Invulnerability Field II
ECCM - Gravimetric II
Large Shield Extender II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II
Large YF-12a Smartbomb

Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5

510dps with 63k ehp 61sensor str.
Maybe other rigs would be better or more eccm with less tank.


But still 2-3 sniper apocs working togeather could instapopp those falcons.




Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2009.01.06 19:01:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Naomi Knight
I've thought about this one:

[Raven, anti support copy 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II
Gravimetric Backup Array II

100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Invulnerability Field II
ECCM - Gravimetric II
Large Shield Extender II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II
Large YF-12a Smartbomb

Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5

510dps with 63k ehp 61sensor str.
Maybe other rigs would be better or more eccm with less tank.


But still 2-3 sniper apocs working togeather could instapopp those falcons.






Seems decent imo, i'd avoid kinetic missiles and go EM or Explosive (target dependant). As for rigs I like the missile velocity rigs to reduce the time missile use to get to target.

Rennion
Posted - 2009.01.06 19:12:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
I agree. Torp Ravens is quite deadly if flown by a skilled pilot.


I don't really see how skilled piloting applys to torps tbh. It's not like you have to worry about transversal or optimal vs falloff...

Good setup and high sp makes it pretty viable yes but I think that statement is going to far for a fire and forget weapon system.

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2009.01.06 19:16:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 06/01/2009 19:16:40
Originally by: Rennion
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
I agree. Torp Ravens is quite deadly if flown by a skilled pilot.


I don't really see how skilled piloting applys to torps tbh. It's not like you have to worry about transversal or optimal vs falloff...

Good setup and high sp makes it pretty viable yes but I think that statement is going to far for a fire and forget weapon system.


Also skilled as in the right SP ;) (low SP trops is fail). And you need to be able to fit it properly, and you need to select damage type.

But really, flying a trop raven is about the same as flying a gun boat (BS sized). Both require about equal low thought. It not like optimal and falloff is a hard concept to figure out.

Anri
O.W.N. Corp
OWN Alliance
Posted - 2009.01.06 21:18:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Naomi Knight
Any reason to use a cruise raven over a turret bs in pvp?
I couldnt find any other than the pilot only has caldari bs + missile skills.
Oh and pls input fits for comparison.


The #1 advantage missiles have over turrets is the same as it always has been. Consistent damage at all ranges within the max range of your missiles.

This means that knowledge of your targets range is very important because if you can somehow dictate range you can minimize their damage and you keep yours.

Hard to do in practice because caldari ships are generally slow.

Spaztick
Terminal Impact
Kairakau
Posted - 2009.01.06 21:25:00 - [19]
 

Passive targeters don't matter, because you don't get the yellow brackets AS they're targeting you, you get it after. By the time the falcon realizes you've targeted him your missiles should already be on their way.

Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2009.01.06 22:31:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 06/01/2009 17:03:04
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
The passive targeter module is importent here.


How so? I was under the impression that as soon as you aggressed the target, then the red brackets came up.


Yeah, but then the missiles is under way. And a falcon that sees itself getting targeted might get to jam you first if he know he is getting targeted ;)


The falcon pilot has a long time to react though.

Red brackets from a Raven = gtfo

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2009.01.06 22:47:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Artemis Rose
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 06/01/2009 17:03:04
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
The passive targeter module is importent here.


How so? I was under the impression that as soon as you aggressed the target, then the red brackets came up.


Yeah, but then the missiles is under way. And a falcon that sees itself getting targeted might get to jam you first if he know he is getting targeted ;)


The falcon pilot has a long time to react though.

Red brackets from a Raven = gtfo


Yeah, that the whole point :). If he is not there, he is not jamming ;).

Psir
Posted - 2009.01.06 22:48:00 - [22]
 

I'd go with Sidus build, maybe skip the rigs as I don't feel they're needed. It's worth mentioning that you can fit a bit of ECM on a long range raven aswell, something that other snipers cannot.

SirMoric
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2009.01.06 23:09:00 - [23]
 

But what happens to the missiles if the opponent has a smartbomb fitted?

rgds

ElCoCo
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
Posted - 2009.01.06 23:13:00 - [24]
 

If only cruisemissiles weren't so crap vs cruisers nowadays I'd only be flying ravens for anti-falcon work.Crying or Very sad

So yay apocs Razz

lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
Posted - 2009.01.06 23:25:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Naomi Knight
Any reason to use a cruise raven over a turret bs in pvp?




Burn Eden used ravens almost exclusively in PVP instead of turret BS.

HIGHS

1 x imp cloak
1 x best named nuet
6 x cruise II

MIDS

1 X 100mn MWD II
3 X Damps II
2 x SB II

LOWS

3 x BCU II
1 X 1600MM plate
1 x medium Armour repairer II

RIGS

3 X WARFARE FLARE CATALYST



Soporo
Caldari
Posted - 2009.01.06 23:34:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Soporo on 06/01/2009 23:39:59
Used pre QR you mean.
You know, before cruise required a painter and a web to do decent damage to a BS.

Quote:
Missiles always hit (for crap damage unless targets tackled and/or painted); you can guarantee that unless they warp off or jam you, that falcon is going to die (30 seconds later), as is that pesky intercepto orbitting at 100km at 5000 m/s...


Are you suggesting Cruise Ravens for anti-inty work? Laughing

Sad and sorry truth is you are much better off in a Rokh or any other decent turret ship, even with t1 guns, if you want to do the snipe thing.


 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only