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CCP TomB

Posted - 2004.07.23 09:28:00 - [1]
 

Currently on CHAOS (yes it lives again...) we are testing 2nd bonuses addon to cruisers and minor changes to current balance on them, feel free to test these out as much as you want/can and give feedback. Please note that anything posted below might change, also various others stats or descriptions of the ships:


Updated:
1. Rupture got projectile damage as 2nd bonus
2. Thorax got less cap nerf for MWD as 2nd bonus
3. Caracal RoF bonus changed to missile velocity
4. Thorax drone bay nerf is no more
5. Vexor drone bay put to 1500 (300+ from what is was)
6. Omen given laser ROF bonus
7. Augoror given armor max hitpoints
8. Bellicose changed to projectile optimal bonus


Amarr

Augoror
Existing: 10% bonus to Energy Turret capacitor use per level
Addon: 10% bonus to max armor per level

Arbitrator
Existing: 10% bonus to Energy Turret capacitor use per level
Addon: +1 extra Drone controlled per level

Omen
Existing: 10% bonus to Energy Turret capacitor use per level
Addon: 5% bonus to Energy Turret rate of fire per level

Maller
Existing: 10% bonus to Energy Turret capacitor use per level
Addon: 5% bonus to all armor resistances per level


Caldari

Osprey
Existing: 10% bonus to Hybrid Turret optimal range per level
Addon: 20% bonus to mining laser yield per level

Blackbird
Existing: 5% bonus to kinetic missile damage per skill level
Addon: 10% bonus to EW modules cap need per level

Caracal
Existing: 5% bonus to kinetic missile damage per skill level
Addon: 10% bonus to Missile Velocity per level

Moa
Existing: 10% bonus to Hybrid Turret optimal range per level
Addon: 5% bonus to shield boosting per level


Gallente

Exequror
Existing: 5% bonus to Hybrid Turret damage per level.
Addon: 10% bonus to Cargo Capacity per level.
Boost: Cargo Capacity increased from 425.0 to 600.0

Celestis
Existing: 5% bonus to Hybrid Turret damage per level.
Addon: 5% bonus to Hybrid Tracking speed per level.

Vexor
Existing: 5% bonus to Hybrid Turret damage per level.
Addon: +1 extra Drone controlled per level
Boost: dronebay from 1200 to 1500

Thorax
Existing: 5% bonus to Hybrid Turret damage per level.
Addon: 5% less cap nerf for MWD's per level.


Minmatar

Scythe
Existing: 5% bonus to Projectile Turret firing speed per level
Addon: 20% bonus to mining laser yield per level

Bellicose
Existing: 5% bonus to Projectile Turret firing speed per level
Addon: 10% bonus to Projectile Optimal range per level

Stabber
Existing: 5% bonus to Projectile Turret firing speed per level
Addon: 5% bonus to max velocity per level

Rupture
Existing: 5% bonus to Projectile Turret firing speed per level
Addon: 5% bonus to Projectile Turret damage per level


No flames, no WTT, no WTS, no WTB, give feedback.

Hellspawn01
Amarr
Posted - 2004.07.23 09:45:00 - [2]
 

Maybe cruisers will get a better role now.

I cant understand why the Thorax gets only half the drone bay now. It was the best mining cruiser for ages. Now the vexor has more drone bay which means it can carry 6 heavy drones instead of only 4. Not a really needed balance.

Juan Andalusian
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.07.23 09:46:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 23/07/2004 09:49:02
Imho the Thorax should have a speed/mwd related bonus. Tracking is not an issued for cruiser vs cruiser or cruiser vs BS atm.

I am guessing you are giving it tracking because you are decreasing it's anti-frig defences?

Gunstar Zero
Caldari
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2004.07.23 09:49:00 - [4]
 

Nice!

Caldari have a nice little mining platform with the Osprey now - good stuff.

Looks reasonable across the board, esp the thorax tweaking - much needed imho.

In addition could we perhaps have a bit of a beef to hitpoints across the lot - maybe 20-25%? Cruisers drop very quickly, to frigates and battleships, they could do with a bit more longevity.

nice work all in all tho.

Juan Andalusian
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.07.23 09:53:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Hellspawn01
Maybe cruisers will get a better role now.

I cant understand why the Thorax gets only half the drone bay now. It was the best mining cruiser for ages. Now the vexor has more drone bay which means it can carry 6 heavy drones instead of only 4. Not a really needed balance.


From what i see the concept is to effect the minimization of heavies used by cruisers. Something i agree to.

Drone changes need to be known though in order to assess these changes. Medium drones lack in various fields atm.

Eyeshadow
Caldari
The xDEATHx Squadron
Posted - 2004.07.23 09:56:00 - [6]
 

moa's second bonus kinda blows Sad was expecting sommat a bit more useful than that.

Thorax gets a nerf which imo is not a bad thing

Osprey actually has a use now Surprised might have to get one just for mining.

CCP TomB

Posted - 2004.07.23 09:58:00 - [7]
 

The Thorax is mainly a military vessel, although its a great mining platform as well with its stats. Moa isn't the best missile deployer although its (suposed to be) the top of the line Cruiser for Caldari. Vexor gets a better role with these changes and the Thorax is still the biggest fear in close range.

MWD bonus sounds approriate for the Thorax, something that will get checked out.

CCP TomB

Posted - 2004.07.23 10:00:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Eyeshadow
moa's second bonus kinda blows Sad was expecting sommat a bit more useful than that.

At level 5 it has almost a free none-stacking-nerfed shield boost amplifier.

T1 Large Shield Booster with level 5 Caldari Cruiser + 2x shield boost amplifiers = 311 shield boosting per tick.

JoCool
Caldari
Posted - 2004.07.23 10:01:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: JoCool on 23/07/2004 10:04:51
I love how the different boni are referring to their ships and races.
For example, the Maller's second bonus is very interesting and improves the ship significantly. The Omen will also rock defense wise.
Or the BlackBird's bonus, very nice and enables it to use multispectrals more effectively.

The boni are also very creative and make the fields alot more colourful, hats off to TomB.

About the Thorax drone bay nerf - it was definately necessary. Its large dronebay together with the other attributes was simply too much damage wise. The new tracking bonus however will make it a devestating blaster boat.

I'd give the Rupture another bonus though, I don't know if 5% bonus to explosive damage missiles per level was so good. Probably speed or something else increasing its ability to survive longer.

Gunstar Zero
Caldari
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2004.07.23 10:02:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Eyeshadow
moa's second bonus kinda blows Sad was expecting sommat a bit more useful than that.

Thorax gets a nerf which imo is not a bad thing

Osprey actually has a use now Surprised might have to get one just for mining.


I thought that - but it is per/level - cruiser lvl 5 = 25% + Shield boost amp + tech II shield booster = some nice tanking ability.

CCP TomB

Posted - 2004.07.23 10:05:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: JoCool
I'd give the Rupture another bonus though, I don't know if 5% bonus to explosive damage missiles per level was so good. Probably speed or something else increasing its ability to survive longer.

It's a long range combat-house, the explosive missile dmg addon is to increase the flexability that Minmatar ships have, we will see how well it works out for it.

Juan Andalusian
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.07.23 10:06:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 23/07/2004 10:07:56
Originally by: TomB
Vexor gets a better role with these changes and the Thorax is still the biggest fear in close range.


Yup atm Thorax surpasses the Vexor in all the important fields, apart from cargo space, which doesn't even matter for mining.

This addon bonus + Thorax drone bay decrease should create a role for the Vexor and balance the situation for Gal cruisers.

Gunstar Zero
Caldari
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2004.07.23 10:08:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: TomB
Moa isn't the best missile deployer although its (suposed to be) the top of the line Cruiser for Caldari.


perhaps switch the turret / bay slots round? 4 launchers, 2 turrets or perhaps 3/3. We have the Osprey for mining now....

Teutobod
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2004.07.23 10:09:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Teutobod on 23/07/2004 10:12:59
Originally by: TomB
Originally by: Eyeshadow
moa's second bonus kinda blows Sad was expecting sommat a bit more useful than that.

At level 5 it has almost a free none-stacking-nerfed shield boost amplifier.

T1 Large Shield Booster with level 5 Caldari Cruiser + 2x shield boost amplifiers = 311 shield boosting per tick.


I think the best would be to assume fitting a Medium Shield Booster II. The large eat 150 mW and 100 CPU, quite a lot when you consider that rails are the most cpu hoggin' type of gun.

Assuming Cruiser V is also a tad extreme since I do believe very few go to those lenghts.

At any rate, a SB II would do 126 every 3 seconds for a capusage of 60 energy. You'll want to harden the shields with at least two wards leaving room for 1 Amp taking the total to 163,8.

But overall not too shabby when considering it will repair 655,2 compared to 320 for a medium tech 2 armor rep in the same timespan.

Borzoi
Gallente
Borzoi Corp
Posted - 2004.07.23 10:11:00 - [15]
 

I dissagree with the nerf to the Thorax.

But i have one question, will the % to damage now apply to light/med/large ? or still be restricted to Medium guns on Cruisers ?

Valentine Keen
Thundercats
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2004.07.23 10:12:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Valentine Keen on 23/07/2004 10:15:24
I think the Scythe just became my ninja miner of choice and I've now got a reason to train cruiser level 5. Razz

I'm not so sure about the Bellicose, you're giving a gun bonus to a ship primarily used for a missile role. (Similar to Typhoon in that respect.)

Enough Minmatar players already ignore it in favour of the Caracal as it is. Crying or Very sad

Edited for spelling.

Lusiphur
Caldari
Poison Elves
Posted - 2004.07.23 10:12:00 - [17]
 

Not convinced about the Moa's bonus personally. I took the shield tanking off mine and went with a MWD to maintain range about a month ago (and to make getting cans quicker). Think I have been hit once sonce then (PvE) Razz

I would think a Turret RoF or something would be used more.

The Thorax bonus is interesting (I also use a Blasterrax for PvE) but the drone bay nerf should not be applied until the drone balancing so we can see how mediums pan out in that situation.

Apart from that, looking very good a big thumbs up from me. Very Happy

Juan Andalusian
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.07.23 10:24:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 23/07/2004 10:26:51
Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 23/07/2004 10:26:07
Originally by: Borzoi
I dissagree with the nerf to the Thorax.


Reasoning?

Quote:
But i have one question, will the % to damage now apply to light/med/large ? or still be restricted to Medium guns on Cruisers ?

No. Same as all classes. According to what's on Entropy and what seems logical for balance.

Artean
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2004.07.23 10:34:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Artean on 23/07/2004 10:39:55
Very interseting indeed. Seems like u have captured and enhanced the characteristics of most of the cruisers. Not sure I agree with the Ruptures missile dmg bonus (the Rupture could, indeed, be used as close range as well), but testing will tell.

Either way, great to see these bonuses finally hit the test server.

Edit. Hmm.. I would consider to give the Stabber an additional missile hard point as well Wink

CCP TomB

Posted - 2004.07.23 10:37:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: JoCool
The boni are also very creative and make the fields alot more colourful, hats off to TomB.


I'll take that hat thank u very much

*TomB puts the hat next to Ragnar's magic hat he stole some months ago*


CCP TomB

Posted - 2004.07.23 10:39:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Valentine Keen
I'm not so sure about the Bellicose, you're giving a gun bonus to a ship primarily used for a missile role. (Similar to Typhoon in that respect.)


Yers, looks like the Bellicose could get the missile explosive bonus and rupture the optimal bonus.

Borzoi
Gallente
Borzoi Corp
Posted - 2004.07.23 10:40:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Juan Andalusian
Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 23/07/2004 10:26:51
Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 23/07/2004 10:26:07
Originally by: Borzoi
I dissagree with the nerf to the Thorax.


Reasoning?

Quote:
But i have one question, will the % to damage now apply to light/med/large ? or still be restricted to Medium guns on Cruisers ?

No. Same as all classes. According to what's on Entropy and what seems logical for balance.


Thanks ... and my reasoning is that cruisers per se will still be the underdogs, so i see no need to nerf, the Thorax is a close combat ship with no bonus to armor resistance or shield boosts, i say let it keep its edge

Terradoct
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2004.07.23 10:41:00 - [23]
 

I don't like the nerf of the thorax drone bay, it's way too much. Make second bonus +1 drone controled per lvl and reduce drone bay to 1500, or 1000 drone bay but second bonus will be drone dmg. Description on Thorax says that it should be able to fight several opponents simuntaniusly? Then why not make it so.

Juan Andalusian
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.07.23 10:44:00 - [24]
 

Quote:
perhaps switch the turret / bay slots round? 4 launchers, 2 turrets or perhaps 3/3


4 Launcher / 2 Turret would make the Caracal Obsolete.

3 Launcher / 3 Turret would make it weaker.

Borzoi
Gallente
Borzoi Corp
Posted - 2004.07.23 10:46:00 - [25]
 

oh and i have to add, the guns damage bonus is restricted to the ship size, but missils are not, this i feel is unfair, restric the missil bonuses or release the guns ..hehe

Anyways ... i may seem negative, but i am totally in awe of eve and its creators !!!

Perhaps the nerf to the Thorax could wait abit until we see the new drone rules, im sure the devs have a plan Wink and i put my faith in them, i just had to voice my oppinion

CCP TomB

Posted - 2004.07.23 10:48:00 - [26]
 

moa bonus fixed, comes in update soon

Teutobod
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2004.07.23 10:50:00 - [27]
 

Since I fly Amarr ships only I got to say I like the 2nd bonus. With Amarr Cruiser IV and an Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II you get the following resistance.

EM: 74,4%
Expl: 48,16%
Kin: 52%
Thrm: 58,4%

Not bad for the cost of just 1 low. And, the Energized is passive.

Eyeshadow
Caldari
The xDEATHx Squadron
Posted - 2004.07.23 10:53:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: TomB
moa bonus fixed, comes in update soon


as in it wasnt working or its definately gonna be the 5% shield boost? might have to have a play with it, see wot i can do. From the example u gave i mightve been a bit hasty Very Happy

Juan Andalusian
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.07.23 10:55:00 - [29]
 

Quote:
People Worried about Drone Bay decrease


The decrease of the drone bay doesn't hurt the Thorax significanly.

It makes it a bit weaker vs Frigates but that is all.

Thorax damage output is still the best of any cruiser. Even with a drone bay of 0 it still retains this position.

Mining output remains the same. Slightly less defence during solo mining now.

Cruisers like the Vexor and the mining cruisers can become more usefull thanks to changes such as these.

The main problem of the Thorax is it's inability to face off effectively in PvP vs other cruiser and BS given the current situation.

The cruisers that are used in PvP now rely almost 90% of the time on Speed and Missiles. A tactic that works vs BS and cruisers.

More dronebay or less dronebay the Thorax won't benefit or lose. What it needs is a speed or speed module related bonus.

NemesisNL
Posted - 2004.07.23 10:57:00 - [30]
 

instead of the tracking bonus on the thorax cant we get a grid bonus instead to make it a little easier to fit ?


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