open All Channels
seplocked Ships and Modules
blankseplocked BS Pulse overpowered?.
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6

Author Topic

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2009.01.02 22:53:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Goumindong

No, they do not, this is claptrap.

At 27km, a neutron blaster battleships is hitting for 39.5% of its raw blaster DPS and still has its drones. Lets assume a hyperion since that will lower its Drone DPS slightly which should lower its overall DPS at that range pretty heavily. With 3 ogres(assume space for warriors) that 489 DPS, about 500 DPS assuming 2/2/1. Do you know a Battlecruiser that does 500 DPS at 27km? Because I sure as hell do not. Harbingers top around 450-550 depending on the amount of EHP they have at around 20-22km. And at 22km the Hyperion is doing even more.

It is not my fault you are unable to buy and load null ammunition. This isn't a documented bug, maybe you should detail your problems and submit a report.

With ions, your numbers will be a bit lower, but you're still doing 424 with 1 MFS and a rack of Ions on a Hyperion with 3 ogres. So you're still outdoing an FMP harbinger at that range.

Oh, forgot to mention. That is all before resists, so the lasers fall further and they were still pretty much top dog. Sorry, your smaller ships that try and run away and still deal DPS to you. Unless its a coordinated gang, you're screwed. And if it is a coordinated gang, you should be screwed(or killing any elements that have to come close, or leaving)



That assuming your drones can reach the target withotu getting popped first. And assuming the terget will stay at 27 km when you start hitting it. As I said, useless example. The most you can manage is a draw, as the target will just leave.

As I said, using smaller targets as an example of how blasters are fine is stupid.


Quote:

Yea, all those stupid battlecruiser pilots fitting a tank instead of beam lasers and tracking computers in small gang warfare.

Oh, wait.



More like: all thiese stupid battlecruiser pilots fighting against blaster batleships when they can simply evade them.

Quote:

How about this, i will get on sisi with my near maxed Harbinger pilot(if the update was recently, its everything 5, spec 4, drone spec 3, DI 5). I'll fly any set that can keep you from warping and orbit at any range above 15km. You can sit still and let me orbit at the pre-determined range.

You will win every time. Handily.



Better yet, lets do the following. We go 1x1, you with a mega and I with a geddon. I can bet I will win more than 50% of the time. The I go with 2 geddons and you try 2 Megas. I guarantee I will win everytime.


Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2009.01.02 22:58:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Etho Demerzel


I want to fit 2 magstabs on both. But if you want 3 in your mega, be my guest, thongs will be worse for you.


What? Then why did you suggest it?

Quote:


And no cap booster.


Nope, heavy electrochemical

Quote:

Your estimation is wrong:

1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Adaptive Nano Plating II




He he.

No, my estimation was correct. 95k EHP...

Use a medium injector.

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.01.02 23:01:00 - [93]
 

Page four? Oh dear...

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2009.01.02 23:02:00 - [94]
 

Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 02/01/2009 23:02:56
Originally by: Goumindong

What? Then why did you suggest it?



I didn't.

Quote:
Nope, heavy electrochemical


Please, show me this fitting, of a Megathron with neutron blasters, a heavy electrochemical, a LAR and a plate. I am very curious now.

Quote:

He he.

No, my estimation was correct. 95k EHP...

Use a medium injector.


Your estimation was no propulsion module, thus incorrect.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2009.01.02 23:04:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Etho Demerzel

That assuming your drones can reach the target withotu getting popped first. And assuming the terget will stay at 27 km when you start hitting it. As I said, useless example. The most you can manage is a draw, as the target will just leave.

As I said, using smaller targets as an example of how blasters are fine is stupid.


Leave after how long? That takes time you know.

Using smaller targets is a great example of how blasters have an advantage against ships that the competition doesn't because you're more likely to engage smaller ships at closer ranges when you're flying solo and small gang. Its almost as if the typical engagement ranges dictated by gate jump in distances and warps have produced a situation which describes exactly what I have been defining as giving the blaster ships the advantage.

Note: The blaster BS might draw if the BC can leave. The pulse ship will lose when the BC closes, reduces DPS to an inconsequential amount and chews through its EHP.

Quote:

Better yet, lets do the following. We go 1x1, you with a mega and I with a geddon. I can bet I will win more than 50% of the time. The I go with 2 geddons and you try 2 Megas. I guarantee I will win everytime.


Sure, send me the maxed skilled mega pilots and I'll get right on that.


P.S. you'd lose hilariously.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2009.01.02 23:09:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Etho Demerzel

I didn't.



I could have been a typo, but you certainly did

Quote:

Please, show me this fitting, of a Megathron with neutron blasters, a heavy electrochemical, a LAR and a plate. I am very curious now.


You mean the ones with Ions as i said?

And with ions and a 1% PG implant you can get a heavy neut, lar, plate, 2 anp, DC, 2 mfs, mwd, point, and web.

Quote:

Your estimation was no propulsion module, thus incorrect.


My estimation also had the entirely reasonable unspoken estimation that the tank was not clownshoes.

gubigoo
Posted - 2009.01.02 23:10:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Etho Demerzel

big talk about pvp and fail geddon fits



Etho Demerzel

0 kills

41 losses most of which are - wait for it - HAULING vessels

lol man yeah gallente will need a serious boost to make you any good at pvp paper tiger

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2009.01.02 23:10:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Goumindong

Using smaller targets is a great example of how blasters have an advantage against ships that the competition doesn't because you're more likely to engage smaller ships at closer ranges when you're flying solo and small gang. Its almost as if the typical engagement ranges dictated by gate jump in distances and warps have produced a situation which describes exactly what I have been defining as giving the blaster ships the advantage.



Yes, because the target that has just passed through the jump gate gate and is cloaked in an inknown position won't start t accelerate first and can't easily run away...


Quote:

Note: The blaster BS might draw if the BC can leave. The pulse ship will lose when the BC closes, reduces DPS to an inconsequential amount and chews through its EHP.



Unless it is an AB cruiser that won't happen. especially considering that at this range, the target will be completely obliterated by the drones.

Quote:

Sure, send me the maxed skilled mega pilots and I'll get right on that.


P.S. you'd lose hilariously.


I can arrange the amarr battleship pilots. I have friends you know. You on the other hand will have to get your mega pilots on your own, which can present a challenge given your popularity...

Either way, the one who will lose comically will be you.

Rhadamantine
Game Community
Posted - 2009.01.02 23:13:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: gubigoo
Originally by: Etho Demerzel

big talk about pvp and fail geddon fits



Etho Demerzel

0 kills

41 losses most of which are - wait for it - HAULING vessels

lol man yeah gallente will need a serious boost to make you any good at pvp paper tiger


Because no one on here posts with a alt? Oh wait.....

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2009.01.02 23:20:00 - [100]
 

Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 02/01/2009 23:28:46
Originally by: Goumindong

I could have been a typo, but you certainly did



I said you can't put 3 magstabs in a mega with that configuration, and thus comapred a 2 magstabs mega with a 2 heatsing geddon. You should read what you quote before you do it.

Quote:

You mean the ones with Ions as i said?


Sorry, but ions don't count. They are a joke at range.

Quote:

My estimation also had the entirely reasonable unspoken estimation that the tank was not clownshoes.


There is no such a thing as reasonable unspoken, that is just a face saving bull****.

And 95K EHP is still comparable to what you can achieve in a Neutron Mega.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2009.01.02 23:24:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Etho Demerzel

Yes, because the target that has just passed through the jump gate gate and is cloaked in an unknown position won't start t accelerate first and can't easily run away...


Not always, no. Not that it matters in the scope of the question because not fighting the guy is better than exploding horribly which the Amarr ship will do.

Quote:

Unless it is an AB cruiser that won't happen. especially considering that at this range, the target will be completely obliterated by the drones.


You've never actually tried it have you?

Quote:

I can arrange the amarr battleship pilots. I have friends you know. You on the other hand will have to get your mega pilots on your own, which can present a challenge given your popularity...

Either way, the one who will lose comically will be you.


You don't need to arrange the amarr bs pilots, you need to arrange the missing piece of the puzzle, the blaster pilot.

And considering 778 DPS EM/thermal tank on the hyperion with 91k EHP i think you're going to have a time of it.

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2009.01.02 23:28:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Goumindong

Not always, no. Not that it matters in the scope of the question because not fighting the guy is better than exploding horribly which the Amarr ship will do.



Exploding horribly will happen only in yoru imagination.

Quote:

You've never actually tried it have you?



Fear not, this is easier to test. We just need a battlecruiser to horribly kill the armageddon, with its ubber speed at close range. Good luck.

Quote:

You don't need to arrange the amarr bs pilots, you need to arrange the missing piece of the puzzle, the blaster pilot.



As I am trying to prove the point that amarr are better and you the opposite I wouldn't let you play with the amarr, would I? It would be a biased test...


Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2009.01.02 23:31:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Etho Demerzel

I said you can't put 3 magstabs in a mega with that configuration, and thus comapred a 2 magstabs mega with a 2 heatsing geddon. You should read what you quote before you do it.



I never compared a 3 magstab mega. I compared a 2 magstab hyperion. Note: You can indeed fit a 3 magstab mega.

Quote:

Sorry, but ions don't count. They are a joke at range.


23km optimal + falloff is still better than any battlecruiser and encompasses the full range of point. Its electrons that have trouble with range.[not that the 24km heavy neut wouldn't have any effect either...]

But since i claimed Ions then i don't see how "Ion's don't count"

Quote:


There is no such a thing as reasonable unspoken, that is just a face saving bull****.

And 95K EHP is still comparable to what you can achieve in a Neutron Mega.


No its bleeding not. A Mega is going to run 115 to 120k EHP with 2 MFS. That is, on the low end, 21% more EHP. EHP is just as important as DPS, its why the Abaddon is so much freaking better than the Armageddon.

I am perfectly reasonable in thinking that you're not fitting something that is entirely clownshoes when its otherwise unstated. ****, i could claim i can get a rep and plate and neutrons on a Hyperion otherwise. It would be freaking clownshoes but i guess that meets your definition.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2009.01.02 23:33:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Etho Demerzel


As I am trying to prove the point that amarr are better and you the opposite I wouldn't let you play with the amarr, would I? It would be a biased test...




Only if you do not trust your pilot to be honest. Since the Amarr action will be to reduce transversal and otherwise simply do DPS. If i lost any clownshoes(as you presented) would be shown on the KM.

Granted, given the joke of a tank submitted i am not sure i can trust you to give a reasonable defense against a proper set up ship.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2009.01.02 23:39:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Etho Demerzel

Fear not, this is easier to test. We just need a battlecruiser to horribly kill the armageddon, with its ubber speed at close range. Good luck.



Ahh, taken the bait I see. How about i prove that a brutix can kill a double web hyperion(with a LOT of luck and some bad piloting by the Hyperion granted) simply by getting close. Then how about i provide video evidence of the world to see it! Now, since the difference in tracking against a battleships is inconsequential, and since the harbinger is faster, smaller, has more EHP/tank, the same number of meds, and better armor resistances against amarr this should be sufficient.

Thanks Kil2, you're the best.

I am sure you will bring up the Apoc, if you want to discuss it, there are counter arguments regarding competency of the other pilots involved in its single incident, though the same can be said for the mega fight and as you can see from the Apocs fit, its not a DPS master, nor does it really have much recourse for a mistake.

gubigoo
Posted - 2009.01.02 23:45:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Rhadamantine


Because no one on here posts with a alt? Oh wait.....


And all of them have reasons for it. Twisted Evil (like sucking at pvp as is the case with etho)

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2009.01.02 23:45:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Goumindong
with a LOT of luck and some bad piloting by the Hyperion granted


With these two things you can do anything. That proves nothing...

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2009.01.02 23:46:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: gubigoo

And all of them have reasons for it. Twisted Evil (like sucking at pvp as is the case with etho)


What would be your reason then? Laughing

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2009.01.02 23:47:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 03/01/2009 00:18:33
Originally by: Etho


With these two things you can do anything. That proves nothing...


Watch it. The reason its valid is because of the vast gulf between the Hyperion and the Abaddon in terms of efficacy in dealing with smaller targets.

ED: Quoted wrong thing apparently

Neutrino Sunset
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2009.01.02 23:50:00 - [110]
 

Goum can you post the Mega setup with 120k ehp and 2 mag stabs please?

gubigoo
Posted - 2009.01.02 23:51:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Originally by: gubigoo

And all of them have reasons for it. Twisted Evil (like sucking at pvp as is the case with etho)


What would be your reason then? Laughing


I don't take part in a balance discussion. Thus i don't see a reason to actually prove that i have a clue and let my main be sucked into these troll threads.

I am not asking anyone to take my word for anything. Just saying the fact that you don't have a single kill says alot about your credibility. Laughing

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2009.01.03 00:00:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: gubigoo

I don't take part in a balance discussion. Thus i don't see a reason to actually prove that i have a clue and let my main be sucked into these troll threads.



But you do take part. And you are even trolling one of them. Let me guess your main is amarr specced...

Amusing. Razz

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2009.01.03 00:03:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Goumindong

Watch it. The reason its valid is because of the vast gulf between the Hyperion and the Abaddon in terms of efficacy in dealing with smaller targets.


I think you quoted the wrong message Wink

And I will watch it later and answer to your post.

ElCoCo
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
Posted - 2009.01.03 00:03:00 - [114]
 

Why don't you guys chat about it over msn Razz

chrisss0r
The Lowbirds
Posted - 2009.01.03 00:04:00 - [115]
 

lucky you
posting with an alt gives u the opportunity to pretend your main is capable of some pvp while posting with your main would result in beeing laughed at.

of course this char is my alt and my main has a full skilled polaris frigate in which i instapop poses all day

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2009.01.03 00:09:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: ElCoCo
Why don't you guys chat about it over msn Razz


Because this is a discussion forum. The very motive these things exist is to discuss you know.

Additionally considering we are on topic and you are not, I suggest you open a thread in out of pod experience about MSN chats. Wink

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2009.01.03 00:17:00 - [117]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 03/01/2009 00:23:55
Originally by: Neutrino Sunset
Goum can you post the Mega setup with 120k ehp and 2 mag stabs please?


To start, the 21% better EHP than his Geddon, at 115,436 EHP.

[Megathron, std]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II

100MN MicroWarpdrive I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
[empty high slot]

Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I

Ogre II x4
Warrior II x 5

__________________________________

120,060 EHP

[Megathron, C-type]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Corpii C-type Adaptive Nano Plating
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II

100MN MicroWarpdrive I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

The C-type is not cheap, but not prohibitively expensive, though i haven't checked recently they were under or around 10m isk, which is cheaper than a 3% CPU implant for a second EANM. The increase may or may not be worth it for you.

Other alternates

________________________________

120,572 EHP, requires 1% CPU implant.

[Megathron, 1% CPU]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II

100MN MicroWarpdrive I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

________________________

If you do not have AWU 5, any can be downgraded to the Medium cap booster to fit with 4 and 1% CPU implants are positively cheap. Warriors can be changed to hobgoblins but no one should be without light drones. If you've a heavy neut, hobbies are probably better though this does not have one.

YMMV depending on compensation skills of course.

Venomae
Gallente
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2009.01.03 00:26:00 - [118]
 

Pointless thread.

Everyone knows that Drones are the best weapon system in New Eden.

Blasters? Pfft. Lasers? Haha. Torps? LMAO.

Buff drones!

Drone dmg rigs!

Drone dmg mods!


Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Gunship Diplomacy
Posted - 2009.01.03 00:28:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Venomae
Pointless thread.

Everyone knows that Drones are the best weapon system in New Eden.

Blasters? Pfft. Lasers? Haha. Torps? LMAO.

Buff drones!

Drone dmg rigs!

Drone dmg mods!




what are you whining about? Domi is the best solo BS in QR.

Venomae
Gallente
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2009.01.03 00:29:00 - [120]
 

Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Originally by: ElCoCo
Why don't you guys chat about it over msn Razz


Because this is a discussion forum. The very motive these things exist is to discuss you know.

Additionally considering we are on topic and you are not, I suggest you open a thread in out of pod experience about MSN chats. Wink
I just wonder one thing.

Have you EVER done anything else in EVE than hauling stuff in GW while trading? Laughing

Just wondering since you seem to have quite strong opinnions on this ship pvp related thread...


Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only