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BiggestT
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2009.01.02 17:12:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Don't nerf lasers. Boost blasters, ffs.


In other news, I sign this constructive comment

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2009.01.02 17:12:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: ElCoCo
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Do you have any idea of how many target painters do you need over the target to inflict full torpedo damage in a battleship moving at 300 m/s?
Oh right, those 300m/sec moving battleships. I see lots of them around!


Man, if you don't you are either blind or forgot to activate the right column on your overview to check...

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
This.

Can't belive the mods are letting retrd posts like this pass unlocked.


Actually what is really amazing is the non moderation of your trollish posts with absolute no content, Lyria, just like this one.

Letifer Deus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.01.02 17:17:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Letifer Deus on 02/01/2009 17:19:44
Originally by: Etho Demerzel


Man, if you don't you are either blind or forgot to activate the right column on your overview to check...


You must be referring to AB BS, of which I see very, very few.

And on a side note (i.e. what this thread is actually about), I do not think pulse are particularly OP, I think the alternatives, blasters and ACs, simply aren't up to snuff.

ElCoCo
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
Posted - 2009.01.02 17:18:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Man, if you don't you are either blind or forgot to activate the right column on your overview to check...
Oh yes, those ubiquitous BS's with afterburners in the myriad 1vs1 scenarios we all come across.

Letifer Deus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.01.02 17:24:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: ElCoCo
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Man, if you don't you are either blind or forgot to activate the right column on your overview to check...
Oh yes, those ubiquitous BS's with afterburners in the myriad 1vs1 scenarios we all come across.


Heck, BS ABs aren't even that prevalent on SISI. That says a lot.

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2009.01.02 17:42:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 02/01/2009 17:46:37
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Etho Demerzel


Man, if you don't you are either blind or forgot to activate the right column on your overview to check...


You must be referring to AB BS, of which I see very, very few.

And on a side note (i.e. what this thread is actually about), I do not think pulse are particularly OP, I think the alternatives, blasters and ACs, simply aren't up to snuff.


The concept of underpowered or overpowered is relative. Something must be OP or UP in relation to something else.

For example, Pulse Lasers are severely underpowered compared to the 1 shot kill weapon mounted on the polaris frigs. Fortunately those frigs are not controlled by players so that is not an issue.

On the other hand compared to: Blasters, ACs AND Torpedoes, lasers are overpowered. To balance this you need to either nerf lasers or boost all the other three.

I don't need even to argue my case for Blasters and ACs, they are so inferior that it is blatantly obvious.

Regarding torpedos and AB, well, lets see, against a painted Typhoon, moving without AB at 165 m/s, Torpedoes inflict around 75% of its damage btw. If it has AB equipped damage drops, STILL PAINTED, to about 15%. Tripple painted the same damage goes to 30%. To achieve 100% damage you need to web it and tripple paint it...

ABs are very useful for battleships, especially in low sec where the need to get out of bubbles does not exist, but even in 0.0, against no AB battleships, you will be hard pressed to inflict the torpedoes maximum potential damage.

Now against smaller targets torps don't stand a chance against lasers.

So, in short, pulse lasers are just superior in about everything compared to any other short range weapon system, with the rare exception of torpedoes fired against immobile painted large targets. If that is not overpowered I really don't know what is...


tropic89
Posted - 2009.01.02 17:43:00 - [37]
 

not to mention amarr do EM/therm damage, which is till the highest resist in the game.

fuxinos
Caldari
Guys 0f Sarcasm
Posted - 2009.01.02 17:47:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: fuxinos on 02/01/2009 17:47:34
Originally by: Artemis Rose
Hmm.. for the sake of argument, lets compare Torps and Pulse.

At 15km, what does more damage?
At 20-30km what does more damage?
30km-45km what does more damage?

Torps, all three.

Yup! Torps are over powered.


Troll fails at being a troll.

T1 Torps go 20Km with max skills, Javs go 30Km.... Megapulse II with Scorch goes over 50Km.Rolling EyesRolling Eyes


Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2009.01.02 17:47:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 02/01/2009 17:19:44
Originally by: Etho Demerzel


Man, if you don't you are either blind or forgot to activate the right column on your overview to check...


You must be referring to AB BS, of which I see very, very few.

And on a side note (i.e. what this thread is actually about), I do not think pulse are particularly OP, I think the alternatives, blasters and ACs, simply aren't up to snuff.


The concept of underpowered or overpowered is relative. Soemthing must be OP in relation to something else.

For example, Pulse Lasers are severely underpowered compared to the 1 shot kill weapon mounted on the polaris frigs. Fortunately those frigs are not controlled by players so that is not an issue.

On the other hand compared to: Blasters, ACs AND Torpedoes, lasers are overpowered. To balance this you need to either nerf lasers or boost all the other three.

I don't need even to argue my case for Balsters and ACs, they are so inferior that it is blatantly obvious.

Regarding torpedos and AB, well, lets see, against a painted Typhoon, moving without AB at 165 m/s, Torpedoes inflict around 75% of its damage btw. If it has AB equipped damage drops, STILL PAINTED, to about 15%. Tripple painted the same damage goes to 30%. To achieve 100% damage you need to web it and tripple paint it...

ABs are very useful for battleships, especially in low sec where the need to get out of bubbles does not exist, but even in 0.0, against no AB battleships, you will be hard pressed to inflict the torpedoes maximum potential damage.

Now against smaller targets torps don't stand a chance against lasers.

So, in short, pulse lasers are just superior in about everything compared to any other short range weapon system, which the rare exception of immobile painted large targets against torpedoes. If that is not overpowered I really don't know what is...




Where are these fleets of AB fit BS in low sec?!

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2009.01.02 17:48:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: tropic89
not to mention amarr do EM/therm damage, which is till the highest resist in the game.


Yes, against unhardened armor tanked T1 ships...

Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
Posted - 2009.01.02 17:49:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Omarvelous

Where are these fleets of AB fit BS in low sec?!


Check the bold parts in the quote to see where you failed, and badly.

Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Gunship Diplomacy
Posted - 2009.01.02 17:57:00 - [42]
 

This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.

Regards,
The EVE Online Moderation team

Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Gunship Diplomacy
Posted - 2009.01.02 17:58:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Originally by: ElCoCo
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Do you have any idea of how many target painters do you need over the target to inflict full torpedo damage in a battleship moving at 300 m/s?
Oh right, those 300m/sec moving battleships. I see lots of them around!


Man, if you don't you are either blind or forgot to activate the right column on your overview to check...

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
This.

Can't belive the mods are letting retrd posts like this pass unlocked.


Actually what is really amazing is the non moderation of your trollish posts with absolute no content, Lyria, just like this one.


Ditto oh wise one.

ElCoCo
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
Posted - 2009.01.02 17:58:00 - [44]
 

I smell FW caldari noob!

Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Gunship Diplomacy
Posted - 2009.01.02 17:59:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: ElCoCo
I smell FW caldari noob!


This whole thread is fail. It smells like alot of different things.

Aerin Cloudfayr
the evil ones
Posted - 2009.01.02 17:59:00 - [46]
 

god they're like any other gun - hit them with Tracking Disruptors and deal with it; now there's a game mechanic you fail to appreciate.

Letifer Deus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.01.02 18:10:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Letifer Deus on 02/01/2009 18:15:30
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
The concept of underpowered or overpowered is relative. Something must be OP or UP in relation to something else.


And when people say what I said, the "something else" they are relating to is a theoretical "balanced point." Are MPs overpowered compared to blaters? Yes. But this is because blasters are underpowered compared to their theoretical "balanced point," not because MPs are overpowered compared to theirs.

Quote:
ABs are very useful for battleships, especially in low sec where the need to get out of bubbles does not exist, but even in 0.0, against no AB battleships, you will be hard pressed to inflict the torpedoes maximum potential damage.


ATM I do almost exclusively empire and low sec PvP and I don't remember the last BS I killed that had an AB fitted. BS still generally go MWD or nothing.


Originally by: Etho Demerzel
but even in 0.0, against no AB battleships, you will be hard pressed to inflict the torpedoes maximum potential damage.


If you have a TP and at least 1 of your gang mates has a web I bet your actual DPS is at least as close to your potential DPS as any other close ranged BS weapon platform.

Christari Zuborov
Amarr
Ore Mongers
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2009.01.02 18:17:00 - [48]
 

Saying that a weapon system is overpowered without comparing the ships is kind of dumb.

Put lasers on your megathron if they're so good. Should be pretty easy to do giving that Gallente has the most accomodating grid/cpu.




Letifer Deus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.01.02 18:20:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Christari Zuborov
Saying that a weapon system is overpowered without comparing the ships is kind of dumb.

Put lasers on your megathron if they're so good. Should be pretty easy to do giving that Gallente has the most accomodating grid/cpu.


Lol, what?

Murina
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.01.02 18:25:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Murina on 02/01/2009 18:29:32

Originally by: Christari Zuborov
Saying that a weapon system is overpowered without comparing the ships is kind of dumb.

Put lasers on your megathron if they're so good. Should be pretty easy to do giving that Gallente has the most accomodating grid/cpu.



Base pg stats....

Hype (largest gallente BS PG) = powergrid Output 15,750 MW

geddon (smallest amarr BS PG) = powergrid Output 16,500 MW

baddon = 21,000 MW Shocked more than a hyperion with even max skills.....


Aerin Cloudfayr
the evil ones
Posted - 2009.01.02 18:31:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 02/01/2009 18:29:32

Originally by: Christari Zuborov
Saying that a weapon system is overpowered without comparing the ships is kind of dumb.

Put lasers on your megathron if they're so good. Should be pretty easy to do giving that Gallente has the most accomodating grid/cpu.



Base pg stats....

Hype (largest gallente BS PG) = powergrid Output 15,750 MW

geddon (smallest amarr BS PG) = powergrid Output 16,500 MW

baddon = 21,000 MW Shocked more than a hyperion with even max skills.....




compare the CPU before you start complaining about Powergrid cielings. Powergrid is not the tactical limit to a ships' fittings, it's CPU.

Murina
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.01.02 18:35:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Aerin Cloudfayr


compare the CPU before you start complaining about Powergrid cielings. Powergrid is not the tactical limit to a ships' fittings, it's CPU.


Actually your wrong its both, but the fact is that you cannot (as suggested by the noob) fit pulse onto a gallente ship and remain effective and that is a PG issue not cpu.

Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Gunship Diplomacy
Posted - 2009.01.02 18:39:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Murina
Originally by: Aerin Cloudfayr


compare the CPU before you start complaining about Powergrid cielings. Powergrid is not the tactical limit to a ships' fittings, it's CPU.


Actually you're wrong its both, but the fact is that you cannot (as suggested by the noob) fit pulse onto a gallente ship and remain effective and that is a PG issue not cpu.


Fixed.

Aerin Cloudfayr
the evil ones
Posted - 2009.01.02 18:51:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Aerin Cloudfayr on 02/01/2009 18:51:01
Originally by: Murina


Actually your wrong its both, but the fact is that you cannot (as suggested by the noob) fit pulse onto a gallente ship and remain effective and that is a PG issue not cpu.


You're talking in a 5% difference here with a full rack of MPIIs, and not to mention midslot configs between the two. Megathron can benefit from a variety of fittings plus it also gains huge benefits from its bonuses. Don't discount these bonuses.

This is pointless. srsly. Megapulse has issues tracking really close - they're not made for it. Blasters, on the other hand are, especially when there are ship bonuses for their tracking. Deal with it; Fight how your weapons are designed to fight.

Guide to beating Megapulse Lasers:

Tracking/Optimal Range Disruption
Get up close - (Keep transversal!)
Win.

Now that's not so hard is it? Tell me if I'm seeing something wrong here.

Murina
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.01.02 19:01:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Murina on 02/01/2009 19:07:51

Originally by: Aerin Cloudfayr


This is pointless. srsly. Megapulse has issues tracking really close - they're not made for it. Blasters, on the other hand are, especially when there are ship bonuses for their tracking. Deal with it; Fight how your weapons are designed to fight.


Against a BC with good transversal the pulse ship tracks ok down to 4km while the blaster ship goes down to 2km now understand that this is with IMPOSSIBLY PERFECT TRANSVERSAL and if you look the pulse start out damaging the blasters just under 10km and the graph does not include overheated (13.3km) webs that put the pulse very high from 10-13.3km.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.




Originally by: Aerin Cloudfayr
Tracking/Optimal Range Disruption


Applies to all gunnery ships although the range disruption is considerably less effective against the race with 60+km of range.....

Originally by: Aerin Cloudfayr
Get up close - (Keep transversal!)


Also applies to all gunnery races with a marginal 1-2km difference between pulse and blasters.
Win.

Aerin Cloudfayr
the evil ones
Posted - 2009.01.02 19:07:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Aerin Cloudfayr on 02/01/2009 19:10:11
Actually what I'm seeing there is the Megathron performing brilliantly where it's supposed to perform, and the Abaddon sucking at it. Regardless of what crystal it uses. Go figure.

So I now have the statistical right to create a whinge thread about how my Pulse lasers can't track up close like Blasters can?

honestly, this is a perfect example of how you should be using your weaponry, and how the differences will affect your approach.

Murina
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.01.02 19:11:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Murina on 02/01/2009 19:15:13

Originally by: Aerin Cloudfayr
actually what I'm seeing there is the Megathron performing brilliantly where it;s supposed to perform, and the abaddon sucking at it, regardless of what crystal it uses. Go figure.




You call pulse being effective from 50+km down to under 4km against a impossibly constant transversal scenario sucking?.


Here you go:

http://www.specsavers.co.uk/



Aerin Cloudfayr
the evil ones
Posted - 2009.01.02 19:20:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Aerin Cloudfayr on 02/01/2009 19:22:49
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 02/01/2009 19:15:13

Originally by: Aerin Cloudfayr
actually what I'm seeing there is the Megathron performing brilliantly where it;s supposed to perform, and the abaddon sucking at it, regardless of what crystal it uses. Go figure.




You call pulse being effective from 50+km down to under 4km against a impossibly constant transversal scenario sucking?.


Here you go:

http://www.specsavers.co.uk/






you read me wrong. I'm talking at under 10kms - Web range, Nos Range, Neut Range, Bend-over Range.

let me throw you an afterburner, and the fact that you're out of web range, can dictate range because you're faster than the battleship and can


oh whait i've been harping on about this for a while already

Tracking Disruption - If you're serious about stopping range bonused T2 Scorch in it's tracks, you want to munt his tracking. It's already been reduced by 25%, hit it by another 50% and you won't even have to AB in that situation.

Murina
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.01.02 19:27:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Murina on 02/01/2009 19:37:38
Originally by: Aerin Cloudfayr
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 02/01/2009 19:15:13

Originally by: Aerin Cloudfayr
actually what I'm seeing there is the Megathron performing brilliantly where it;s supposed to perform, and the abaddon sucking at it, regardless of what crystal it uses. Go figure.




You call pulse being effective from 50+km down to under 4km against a impossibly constant transversal scenario sucking?.


Here you go:

http://www.specsavers.co.uk/





let me throw you an afterburner, and the fact that you're out of web range, can dictate range because you're faster than the battleship and can


oh wait i've been harping on about this for a while already

Tracking Disruption - If you're serious about stopping range bonused T2 Scorch in it's tracks, you want to munt his tracking. It's already been reduced by 25%, hit it by another 50% and you won't even have to AB in that situation.


Here is the thing if you need to post about afterburners and tracking disrupting just to reduce the abilities of laser ships you have already lost the argument cos anybody can pre-plan a fit to suit a 1 v 1 situation when you know what the opposing player is flying. Wanna get on sissi and hit the BF areas doing 1 v 1 and almost anything can beat anything especially if you know what your gonna be facing.

Balance on TQ however is about general effectiveness compared to similar systems and as such pulse are overpowered.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2009.01.02 19:50:00 - [60]
 

for a moment I thought this was a 3-year old post, back when we were on the gankageddon age.


oh how things (don't) change...

Laughing


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