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Loaby
Amarr
Imperial Forces
Posted - 2008.12.30 20:07:00 - [1]
 

i know there is a thread somewhere with a discussion whether this skill is usefull for armor tankers or not. cant find it anymore.

should i train it? and: should i train it not beyond lv4?

Estel Arador
Posted - 2008.12.30 20:10:00 - [2]
 

I've got a summary of it in my thread explaining skills.

Gavin DeVries
Posted - 2008.12.30 20:16:00 - [3]
 

The primary benefit of Tactical Shield Manipulation is really that level 4 allows the use of T2 shield hardners, so that won't really apply to an armor tanker. The second benefit is that level 4 allows the learning of the damage type shield compensation skills, which increase the passive resistance of shield modules. Again, that won't really apply to an armor tanker. The tertiary benefit (and the only one that shows in the skill description) is that it prevents bleed-through of damage when you get into that last 25% of shields.

For an armor tanker, this means you'll prevent taking armor damage for another few seconds. At TSM 4 you'll have a roughly 4% chance every time the shield takes damage in that last 25% of some of that damage going through to armor instead. I don't know how it's distributed. At TSM 5 it will not happen. As far as I know, that's the only benefit an armor tanker will get out of this skill.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2008.12.30 20:25:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Gavin DeVries
For an armor tanker, this means you'll prevent taking armor damage for another few seconds. At TSM 4 you'll have a roughly 4% chance every time the shield takes damage in that last 25% of some of that damage going through to armor instead. I don't know how it's distributed. At TSM 5 it will not happen. As far as I know, that's the only benefit an armor tanker will get out of this skill.


This is not how this skill works (though that's how it is described ingame) and it is why I've included in my thread explaining skills (link is above).

Gavin DeVries
Posted - 2008.12.30 20:52:00 - [5]
 

Estel, clarification please. Which is correct?

1) If your shields are at 25% or lower and you take a hit, there is a 25% chance of taking some armor damage. If you have TSM 4, there is only a 5% chance of taking some armor damage. Once your shields are gone, all damage is applied to armor.

2) If your shields are at 25% or lower and you take a hit, there is a chance of taking some armor damage. If you have TSM 4, this can only happen when your shields are at 5% or lower. Once your shields are gone, all damage is applied to armor.

I've never read it as (and only just realized that someone might seriously believe that) having TSM 5 would prevent you from ever taking armor damage.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2008.12.30 21:08:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Gavin DeVries
2) If your shields are at 25% or lower and you take a hit, there is a chance of taking some armor damage. If you have TSM 4, this can only happen when your shields are at 5% or lower. Once your shields are gone, all damage is applied to armor.
This is correct.

Loaby
Amarr
Imperial Forces
Posted - 2008.12.30 21:20:00 - [7]
 

so there´s no point training this one as an armor tanker.

are there shield tanked amarr ships?

sorry if this question is too funny

Gavin DeVries
Posted - 2008.12.30 21:29:00 - [8]
 

It's not too funny. As far as I know, there are no Amarr ships that should be shield tanked. There are some Minmatar and Gallente ships that work well as shield tanks. I expect it's possible to shield tank some Amarr ships, but I think you still have more low slots than mid slows in pretty much all cases.

Zxenis
Strategic Syndicate
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2008.12.30 22:19:00 - [9]
 

pretty useful skill for hulk pilots, but only to lev 4 and because of the extra resists skills that open up.



Han LaoTsu
B4D W0LF
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2008.12.31 11:44:00 - [10]
 

Shield Compensation IV is a pre-req for the shield comp skills, not Tactical Shield Manipulation.

ry ry
Heroes.
Merciless.
Posted - 2008.12.31 12:01:00 - [11]
 

if you've done all the armour skills, tactical shield manipulation buys you a few more seconds HP buffer before damage starts bleeding onto your armour.

so yeah, it's useful, but train reppers 5 and the damage-type compensation skills first.

Lyvanna Kitaen
Minmatar
Noonday Sun Corp
Posted - 2008.12.31 13:45:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Loaby
so there´s no point training this one as an armor tanker.

are there shield tanked amarr ships?

sorry if this question is too funny


Sansha ships shield tank however and your laser skills will come in useful too. So, if you want to fly a nice, shiny Nightmare...

Arous Drephius
Posted - 2008.12.31 14:58:00 - [13]
 

It's worth training, because the damage that "bleeds" to your armor is EXTRA damage in addition to that hitting your shields. You want to keep your armor undamaged for as long as possible, even if it's only a second or two.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.12.31 15:30:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Loaby
so there´s no point training this one as an armor tanker.

are there shield tanked amarr ships?

sorry if this question is too funny


Curse and Harbinger!

Trellish
Blackwater USA Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.12.31 15:45:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Trellish on 31/12/2008 15:46:54
Originally by: Loaby
so there´s no point training this one as an armor tanker.

are there shield tanked amarr ships?

sorry if this question is too funny


There are absolutely several amarr ships that are appropriate to fit with shields. Several are listed by the guy prior. I'll add the pilgrim to that one. Obviously shield tanking them is not the only option, however they can sport quite excellent shield tanks as an option.


Trellish
Blackwater USA Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.12.31 15:48:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Arous Drephius
It's worth training, because the damage that "bleeds" to your armor is EXTRA damage in addition to that hitting your shields. You want to keep your armor undamaged for as long as possible, even if it's only a second or two.


Hmmm... I can't say that I know for sure... but I'd question this statement. I'm not aware that the damage that bleeds through to the shields is "extra" I.e. that it's possible for the opponents weapons to do MORE damage than their theoretical maximum for the context.

inVictu5
Globo Gym Purple Cobras
Posted - 2008.12.31 16:11:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Estel Arador
I've got a summary of it in my thread explaining skills.
Nice link, only spams your pc with Windows... I hate you. Uninstall life

Argilac Blackthorne
Posted - 2008.12.31 17:52:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: inVictu5
Originally by: Estel Arador
I've got a summary of it in my thread explaining skills.
Nice link, only spams your pc with Windows... I hate you. Uninstall life


Um, no it doesn't. Stop browsing the gay **** sites.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2008.12.31 19:12:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: inVictu5
Originally by: Estel Arador
I've got a summary of it in my thread explaining skills.
Nice link, only spams your pc with Windows... I hate you. Uninstall life

It's a link to a thread on this board Rolling Eyes

Drizit
Amarr
Posted - 2008.12.31 22:02:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Trellish
Originally by: Arous Drephius
It's worth training, because the damage that "bleeds" to your armor is EXTRA damage in addition to that hitting your shields. You want to keep your armor undamaged for as long as possible, even if it's only a second or two.


Hmmm... I can't say that I know for sure... but I'd question this statement. I'm not aware that the damage that bleeds through to the shields is "extra" I.e. that it's possible for the opponents weapons to do MORE damage than their theoretical maximum for the context.

I may not be extra damage but it's still damage that has to be accounted for. If you're an Amarr, you need as much cap for weapons as you can get so increasing the time (however little) before you have to hit the reppers is more cap for your guns.

Arous Drephius
Posted - 2008.12.31 23:47:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Trellish
Originally by: Arous Drephius
It's worth training, because the damage that "bleeds" to your armor is EXTRA damage in addition to that hitting your shields. You want to keep your armor undamaged for as long as possible, even if it's only a second or two.


Hmmm... I can't say that I know for sure... but I'd question this statement. I'm not aware that the damage that bleeds through to the shields is "extra" I.e. that it's possible for the opponents weapons to do MORE damage than their theoretical maximum for the context.


Pretty sure Akita T did a bunch of testing and concluded that it was extra damage. I might be completely mistaken though, but damage that's not hitting your armor means you can start repping later, or your buffer lasts longer.

Marine HK4861
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2009.01.01 09:48:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Arous Drephius

Pretty sure Akita T did a bunch of testing and concluded that it was extra damage.


Could you post a link to his numbers if there is one? I'd like to have a look at his experimentation.


 

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